Ultra1 Plus 4T Oil

[RTmutter]

The cost for 6 quarts of Castrol Power1 5W-40 oil  has shot up to $75.99 on Amazon (about 50% increase). I came across a new product that I have not seen before. It is Ultra1 Plus 4T 5W-40 oil at a cost of $125 for a 5 gallon pail (https://www.amazon.com/Ultra1Plus-5W-40-Full-Synthetic-Engine/dp/B08FF56X1L?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1).

The label says it exceeds the performance requirements for API SN and JASO MA2. I'm curious if anyone has used this product and what their thoughts are.

[MikeB60]

Do a search at bobistheoilguy. Weak additive package seems to be the consensus. 

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, RTmutter said:

The cost for 6 quarts of Castrol Power1 5W-40 oil  has shot up to $75.99 on Amazon (about 50% increase). I came across a new product that I have not seen before. It is Ultra1 Plus 4T 5W-40 oil at a cost of $125 for a 5 gallon pail (https://www.amazon.com/Ultra1Plus-5W-40-Full-Synthetic-Engine/dp/B08FF56X1L?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1).

The label says it exceeds the performance requirements for API SN and JASO MA2. I'm curious if anyone has used this product and what their thoughts are.

Afternoon  RTmutter

 

It says in the advertising that it "exceeds the performance requirements for API SN and JASO MA2" but nowhere does it say that it was actually API tested under API controlled testing to actually BE  SN & JASO MA2 rated. 

 

It's one thing to say it meets or exceeds this or that but with no actual API rating on the container then that puts up a large red flag for me. 

 

If your motorcycle is still under BMW warranty then my suggestion is to absolutely verify that oil is in fact API tested & rated. 

 

A company can spend the money & time to have their oil product properly API rated or just hire an advertising spin doctor for less money & spin around the facts. ( you should probably find out which way they went on this)

[Rougarou]

I use Rotella T6.  Used it for 12k miles on the HP4, have been using it for prolly 110-120k on the RT and have been using it since the 600 mile freebie service on the GSA,...32k miles now.

 

None of the three bikes have fallen apart or died yet, it's "good enough".

[Stiggy]

FWIW, O'Reilly Auto Stores sells the Castrol for $10.99/qt (still pricey but not $75.99 / 6pk (yet))

[Twisties]

I've been using Motul 7100.  $52 on Amzn for 4 L.

[John Ranalletta]

Amazon.  Free delivery w/ Prime.  Not sure I want the used oil alternative circled though.

 

[9Mary7]

My bikes do love that Motul 7100..........

[Bernie]

1 hour ago, John Ranalletta said:

Amazon.  Free delivery w/ Prime.  Not sure I want the used oil alternative circled though.

 

 

The 5W-40 to the left of the circled item would be the proper oil for a WetHead or Shiftcam motor.

[Paul De]

 

1 hour ago, Bernie said:

 

The 5W-40 to the left of the circled item would be the proper oil for a WetHead or Shiftcam motor.

Did you mean to ID the item to the left or is it the one two to the right of the circled 10W-40 in J R's post

 

From the Liqui Moly website selection tool for 2014- current R bikes  (Wethead & Shiftcam)

I went with Motorbike 4T Syth 5W-40 Street Race after I used up the last of the BMW ADVANTEC Ultimate 5W-40 as it was a huge savings (~$57 for 4L to my door) over the ADVATEC Ultimate.  But now that I  dig into the detail on the Liqui Moly website it says the 4T 5W-40 HC Street (introduced in 2020) is also a full synthetic oil and at about $32 for 4L delivered it might be a better bargain.  Wonder if anyone around here has use the HC Street version?

 

Interestingly neither the BMW Advantec Ultimate, nor the Liqui Moly 4T Synth containers I have in the shop actually sport the round API service logo, so are likely both oils were tested internally and not by API Independent testing.  I really don't think it matters as Shell and Liqui Moly are not going to risk their reputations cheating on a certification scandle.

 

 

 

 

[Bernie]

Sorry, Yes the item to the right. It should be the 5W40. @John Ranalletta has a CamHead and that is why he circled the 10W40. 

[Bernie]

Interesting that reading the specs for both LiquiMoly 5w40 oils, only the Street version mentions that it is safe for Catalytic Converter. There is also a big price difference. 

[Stiggy]

And safe for the clutches, (2014 to present...)

[92Merc]

I've used Shell T6 in the past.  I found less shifting noise when I switched to Liquid Moly from BeamerBoneyard.  I forget the discount code right now, but you get one at BB.  That's the only fluids I buy now.  Liquid Moly oil and diff fluid from BB.

[Dennis Andress]

 

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, Paul De said:

Interestingly neither the BMW Advantec Ultimate, nor the Liqui Moly 4T Synth containers I have in the shop actually sport the round API service logo, so are likely both oils were tested internally and not by API Independent testing.  I really don't think it matters as Shell and Liqui Moly are not going to risk their reputations cheating on a certification scandle.

 

Afternoon Paul

 

Your Liqui Moly should have an ACEA rating something like ACEA A3/B4    " Association des Constructeurs Européens d'Automobiles ".   In a lot of cases oil with a European rating is not tested for API approval as it already has a ACEA rating. 

 

 

[9Mary7]

17 hours ago, Dennis Andress said:

 

I am a strong proponent of this oil. Interestingly, our Superstock road race motors made more power with the 7100 than they did with the 300V racing oil. 7100 Motul is all I use.

I will say that the transmissions shift like butter with it.

[Rob Nowell]

My '16 Owner's Manual says 5w-40, so why would I stray?  Just sayin'...

[Stiggy]

Liquid Moly comes in 5W-40 too.

 

https://www.liqui-moly.com/en/us/motorbike-4t-synth-5w-40-street-race-p000261.html#20074

[Ron-M]

On 8/12/2023 at 8:36 PM, Stiggy said:

FWIW, O'Reilly Auto Stores sells the Castrol for $10.99/qt (still pricey but not $75.99 / 6pk (yet))

 

You beat me to it.  Just bought the Castrol at O'Reilly's at the $10.99/qt. price.  

[Dave_in_TX]

On 8/12/2023 at 7:26 PM, Rougarou said:

I use Rotella T6.  Used it for 12k miles on the HP4, have been using it for prolly 110-120k on the RT and have been using it since the 600 mile freebie service on the GSA,...32k miles now.

 

None of the three bikes have fallen apart or died yet, it's "good enough".

You might want to check the label on the Rotella T6. The 5W40 used to carry an API gas rating in addition to diesel rating but hasn't for a few years now.   It currently only has API diesel ratings so it no longer meets gas engine specs.

[Rougarou]

Just now, Dave_in_TX said:

You might want to check the label on the Rotella T6. The 5W40 used to carry an API gas rating in addition to diesel rating but hasn't for a few years now.   It currently only has API diesel ratings so it no longer meets gas engine specs.

 

No real concern with that.

 

I'm not really a by the book type of maintainer.

[Hosstage]

21 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

 

No real concern with that.

 

I'm not really a by the book type of maintainer guy.

Fixed it for you.

[Dennis Andress]

On 8/14/2023 at 12:10 PM, Rob Nowell said:

My '16 Owner's Manual says 5w-40, so why would I stray?  Just sayin'...

Because you read an oil thread?

[Dave_in_TX]

On 8/13/2023 at 10:25 AM, Bernie said:

Sorry, Yes the item to the right. It should be the 5W40. @John Ranalletta has a CamHead and that is why he circled the 10W40. 

My 2011 camhead specified 5W40.

[terryofperry]

 

Terry

2 hours ago, Dave_in_TX said:

My 2011 camhead specified 5W40.

That's interesting, my Camhead specified viscosity based on temperature. 

 

 

Terry

[Hosstage]

That chart is all over the place, not sure it really helps, except that 5w-40 seems to be wrong for anything over 32°F, and 10w-50 can be used at -4°F.

So, run what ya brung.

[Rougarou]

31 minutes ago, Hosstage said:

That chart is all over the place, not sure it really helps, except that 5w-40 seems to be wrong for anything over 32°F, and 10w-50 can be used at -4°F.

So, run what ya brung.

 

Rotella

[terryofperry]

The chart is not all over the place at all, it's a typical viscosity chart. 40 weight on the upper end is 40 weight, whether it is 5w-40, 10w-40 or 15w-40. To say BMW specified 5w-40 for the Camhead is misleading, BMW specified a range of viscosity based on temperature. To say Rotella T6 doesn't meet specs for API Gas motors just because it's not shown on the label is misleading, you don't know that, it could very well meet the specs.

 

Terry

[Hosstage]

I'm just surprised to see 10w-50 acceptable down to -4°F.

[terryofperry]

Don't know why you would be surprised, almost every chart I pull up shows -20°C to -30°C.

 

 

 

 

Terry

[Hosstage]

Copy that.

[9Mary7]

[Rob Nowell]

21 hours ago, Dennis Andress said:

Because you read an oil thread?

clever, Dennis

[Hosstage]

Often, when asked what oil to use, I answer "some".

Back in the good old days, a friend didn't like paying $4.59/qt for oil from the dealer, asked what oil from the auto store will work that is cheaper. I told him diesel oil. He was very happy he got it for $3.99. Saved a whole $2.40 per oil change. 

Still went to the dealer to pick up a filter though.

He sure showed that dealer what's what.

[Stiggy]

23 hours ago, terryofperry said:

 

Terry

That's interesting, my Camhead specified viscosity based on temperature. 

 

 

Terry

 

Interesting to note that the wetheads owners manuals only spec. 5W-40 (of course that's the oil that BMW recommends now that they sell their own "BMW" oil ($$$) :))

And only if the wetheads oil passages got really, really small would 5W-40 be the only oil to use (and I kinda' doubt that happened.)

[Bernie]

The CamHead and WetHead are completely different motors and designs. 

[Cap]

On 8/12/2023 at 2:50 PM, MikeB60 said:

...Weak additive package seems to be the consensus. 

 

I like to find a good deal as much as the next guy.  This Ultra1Plus stuff might be a cheap alternative to Castrol 4T, now that the Castrol price seems to have gone up 50%.  So, I looked at that lone posting of an oil analysis for Ultra1Plus, which was not for the JASO rated version, and I see that it has less molybdenum and boron and magnesium than most oils in the category, but twice the phosphorus and zinc and calcium.

 

So, two thoughts:  First, this assay is not for the JASO version of the Ultra1Plus oil.  And second, having less molybdenum is probably a good thing for wetheads that have a prohibition against moly additives in the owner's manual.  Whereas, extra zinc might be an indicator of the presence of ZDDP.  So, maybe this additive package is fine as far as it goes.

 

And we still haven't addressed the question from the OP.  It would be nice to have some actual data on the JASO version of Ultra1Plus.

 

Cap

[Aussie Mark]

Nice to see the the cost has gone up globally and not just Downunder, as we continue to pay $$$$$$$$$$$$$ for everything.. 

Castrol POWER 1 Motorcycle Engine Oil 5W-40 Racing 4T 4L335699

 

$99.95

[RTmutter]

The label on the 5 gallon pail of Ultra 1 Plus 4T 5W-40 oil shows “Exceeds Performance Requirements: API SN JASO MA2”. There is no API or JASO circle or other seal or symbol indicating testing or certification. Other 4T 5W-40 oils appear to be labelled similarly (ex. Castrol Power 1, Liqui Moly, Ravenol). With no certification seal, it seems like the choice is to either trust or don’t trust what the label says. Out of curiosity, I sent an email to the Ultra 1 Plus oil folks asking for any info regarding testing and/or certification of their 5W-40 4T oil. Their response is below - Not sure if this helps people with their decision making but I did want to share with all.

 

“This is how this works: We are a SAE and API certified oil producer. There are a handful of motorcycle oil formulations certified by SAE and API for 5W-40 and SN spec level. Those formulations are the result of combining a certificated synthetic base stock, in our case form 2 Houston refineries (Motiva and Exxon Mobil), mixed in specific proportions with different additive from 2 certified additive companies (Lubrizol, Chevron Oronite). At the same time, these additives companies went through the testings and registered these formulations with the Japanese Automobile Standard Organization to receive JASO MA2 certification.

 

Through the years, from internal testing and from users feedback, we have chosen the formulations that have received best performance results in our lab and the best feedback and reviews from our users and from personal experience. And again, the formula is certified and covered by the liability insurance of our company and the additive companies in an umbrella coverage. I personally use Ultra U1P-ride 15W-50 SP JASO MA2 in my KTM SuperDuke 990.

 

We got you covered. You are going to love how clear the oil is and stays even after several hours of use and how silent and responsive the engine rips and clutch works.”

[Stiggy]

I for one would be satisfied with that response from the manufacturer. (Not only responded but offered way more information that they had to!)

 

Walmart: $116.73

 

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Ultra1Plus-5W-40-Full-Synthetic-4T-Engine-Oil-API-SN-Jaso-MA2/257836796

 

https://pqia.org/2021/11/22/ultra1plus-joins-pqia-to-ensure-continued-quality-and-integrity-of-lubricants-in-the-market/

[Dave_in_TX]

18 hours ago, RTmutter said:

 You are going to love how clear the oil is and stays even after several hours of use ...”

That would make me suspect that the oil is not keeping engine clean and that deposits are remaining in engine.

[Stiggy]

So I bought the 5 gallon jug from Walmart today after reading up a bit more on the manufacturer, (Ultrachem LLC.)  I just did the 12,000 service a few weeks back with Castrol but at 18,000  I'll try it and send a sample to Blackstone at the 3,000 mile mark (I do that anyways for all my vehicles at least one time in their lives.)

 

I remind myself that I've never heard of a modern motorcycle engine blowing up from improper oil selection (and that includes the Harley forum, where oil threads are legend.)

It'll probably be early '24 before I've ridden that bike that far however!

Guinea pig Dave here! 

[LAF]

I know after 50 years of driving my first car at 16 we ALWAYS used Temp for our oil selection.

 

10W 40W in Winter, 20W 50W in Summer.  That was all we knew.  We changed oil and filter every 2500 miles. 

 

I would love to run 15W 40W in summer in the GS.  I just never have made the leap.  I do not see how +10W in Summer would matter?  I would think it would quiet it down a bit.   My car uses 0W 20W.  So it must matter?

 

Or is it for mileage numbers.  I just can not see this, but I blindly follow the heard.

 

My flavor is Liqui Moly in both the motor, and final drive.

[Hosstage]

0W-20 in autos is due to a few things, mostly fuel economy, and now especially the cam phaser oil passages, they are tiny, thicker oil is not friendly to them.

[Stiggy]

3 hours ago, Hosstage said:

0W-20 in autos is due to a few things, mostly fuel economy, and now especially the cam phaser oil passages, they are tiny, thicker oil is not friendly to them.

As I learned when I picked up my Challenger RT (Hemi.) with tiny little passages in the lifters that takes the motor from 8 cyl to 4 cyl operation seamlessly.

I sure wouldn't mess with oil 'W's' in that regard without investigating further!

[LAF]

22 hours ago, Hosstage said:

0W-20 in autos is due to a few things, mostly fuel economy, and now especially the cam phaser oil passages, they are tiny, thicker oil is not friendly to them.

Yes I have a Accord so I am sure VTEC needs the thin stuff.  I would also see it in the Shiftcam as it is nothing more then VTEC so I see the value of thin oil.

 

Curious to see what the 1300 runs?  Since it is going to be fully water cooled not a jacket, it may make a difference there.

[RTinNC]

On 8/12/2023 at 8:36 PM, Stiggy said:

FWIW, O'Reilly Auto Stores sells the Castrol for $10.99/qt (still pricey but not $75.99 / 6pk (yet))

Thanks for the tip !! 

[Camhead64]

On 8/22/2023 at 8:33 AM, LAF said:

Yes I have a Accord so I am sure VTEC needs the thin stuff.  I would also see it in the Shiftcam as it is nothing more then VTEC so I see the value of thin oil.

 

Curious to see what the 1300 runs?  Since it is going to be fully water cooled not a jacket, it may make a difference there.

The shiftcam is much different than a VTEC engine, NO hydraulic cam phasers, it uses an electronic solenoid to shift cam position. 

[RTinNC]

So here is how I look at threads like this where a somewhat "suspect" product is questioned .... Based on $125 for a 5 gallon pail (20 quarters) for the Ultra 1 oil that is $6.25/qt or $25 for an oil change vs $11 ($10.99 at O'Reilly) for Castrol or $44 for an oil change.  That is a difference of $19 more per oil change using Castrol which we know meets all manufacturer requirements and is a proven product.  

 

If you change your oil every 6K miles (I do mine at 3K but that is just me) as recommended by BMW over a course of 100,000 miles you would change the oil about 16 times amounting to a difference of about $316 more using Castrol, BUT that is OVER 100K miles !   Even at 20K per year that is only an addition annual cost of $63 per year for the peace of mind using a quality product.  Hey I am as frugal as they come but for me I would spend the $63 on my $20,000+ motorcycle.   But as always YMMV and everyone saves $$ where they are comfortable.