New H7 Headlight LED?

[gmcjetpilot]

I am happy with stock 55W H7 Halogen, in that it works, but I have not rode at night recently (4 yrs). However I am considering these 3 options:

 

1) -  Keep Stock bulb *unknown brand*

2) - Upgraded H7 Halogen performance bulb

3) - LED

 

Looks like LED (with fan) would drop in. Any advice appreciated. They are reported to be better, whiter, brighter, long lived. True?

[dirtrider]

15 hours ago, gmcjetpilot said:

I am happy with stock 55W H7 Halogen, in that it works, but I have not rode at night recently (4 yrs). However I am considering these 3 options:

 

1) -  Keep Stock bulb *unknown brand*

2) - Upgraded H7 Halogen performance bulb

3) - LED

 

Looks like LED (with fan) would drop in. Any advice appreciated. They are reported to be better, whiter, brighter, long lived. True?

Evening gmcjetpilot

 

Big decision, the LED is illegal in the U.S. unless DOT approved (most non-OEM are not DOT approved), not a big deal until some yahoo in an SUV pulls out in front of you & you hit it. A sharp lawyer on the SUV side can use that to say your  illegal LED was blinding the driver so they couldn't tell your approaching speed. Always blame it on the motorcycle as everybody knows those things are dangerous. 

 

But a number of riders do go that direction, you just need an LED that works with your motorcycle headlight lens & reflector. 

 

You can upgrade the H-7 but there isn't much to increase without increasing the circuit load to your already weak headlight circuit. The BMW 1150 is already pretty weak in the wire size & wire terminals at the headlight bulb so adding a higher wattage bulb will probably fry your wire terminals & the wires going to the headlight bulb. Again illegal unless DOT approved & higher wattage bulbs are usually not DOT approved. 

 

If you go this direction then adding a power relay with separate fuse having your existing headlight circuit trigger that relay is probably a smart idea.    

 

The upside to adding a power relay is even on the stock bulb that adds a little more voltage to the lit  bulb slightly increasing light output.

 

Your 1150 might already have the fog/running lights & those do help the frontal lighting.  

[Miguel!]

Cyclops also makes an H4 LED bulb that outputs 5800 lumens. Four years agoI installed a Cyclops 10,000-lumen H4 LED bulb in my R1100RT that consumes only 38 Watts (about 2/3rds the power of the OEM bulb) but is much, MUCH brighter. As far as I can tell, the beam pattern on my R1100RT is pretty close to that of the OEM bulb and I don't find people flashing their lights at me. Heeding dr's comments, I don't know if Cyclops is DOT-certified/approved. I have the Cyclops LED box in my storage. I'll look to see if it says anything about DOT and get back to you tmw. 

 

Miguel

[gmcjetpilot]

8 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Evening gmcjetpilot

 

Big decision, the LED...... SNIP    

 

The upside to adding a power relay is even on the stock bulb that adds a little more voltage to the lit  bulb slightly increasing light output.

 

Your 1150 might already have the fog/running lights & those do help the frontal lighting.  

 

Thanks great well thought out advice and info as usual. Yep have fog lights,  in addition to high &  low bulbs, plus parking light, all in the fairing light housing.

 

As you know, Low iH7 (55w) ; High  H3 (55w), Fog lights (2) H3's (55w). (4) 55 watt bulbs should be enough light. If not slow down. If a bulb burns out I'll deal with it then. 

 

We shall see (ha ha pun intended). Driving on straight lighted street or highway,  verses a rural back road on a moonless light is different animal (including deer running out).  Night rides on dark windy rural roads is sporty anyway. I like the idea of having the LOW H7 brighter for daytime running light. 

 

I always found Sylvania super bright bulbs were great brand for my cars, last longer. I heard PIAA has a good reputation. Right now they are all working. I took my low out this last major service to look at it. Mistake, getting it back in with little room to work makes it a challenge.

 

Good point on the higher electrical load. 55watts is already over 4 amps.... higher wattage might get wiring a bit toasty. Also the higher watt "hot" bulbs don't last.

 

I recall a popular aftermarket accessory for the BMW's bikes, including mine, dual LED fog lights, mounted under front fairing or lower front fork. These would throw more light, but again legality is questionable.

 

PS "Fritz" is purring Wunder-Bar, thanks to this forum community and your input. Appreciate it.  Cheers.

[Joe Coastie]

Led lights work great in vehicles with the projector type lights.

Hid lights work better in reflector headlights.

There was a Cyclops H4 led in my 1100RT when I bought it.

I did not care for it one bit.

It got replaced wit a Osram H4 halogen because that's what I prefer.

Ultimately the choice is yours.

Do some research on the difference between led and hid.

You might be surprised.

[Etienne Lau]

I have the Cyclops H7 LEDs on my 2010 RT and they work just fine.

[Lowndes]

I've used the OEM bulbs, aftermarket incandescents, HID, halogen, and LED bulbs in bikes and cars.  The OEM's are feeble, same with the incandescents, HID's draw more current, get very hot, and are expensive to replace, halogens are a tad better than incandescents, and the LED's can be from dimmer to way brighter (depending on which bulb you choose) and are much brighter per watt (more lumins per watt), run much cooler than even the incandescents.  This is because LED's are much more efficient turning much more of the electricity into light and much less into heat.  More light, less current, less heat.  Don't take my word for it, google it.

 

The price on LED's has come way down and the quality has gone way up.  The LED bulbs are much better than they used to be.  Maybe some folks tried an early LED bulb, had problems (didn't fit right, the light pattern wasn't right, etc) and are reluctant to go down that path again.  There is also the time honored tradition of not wanting to change anything (from what one is used to, knows, likes, or the OEM) that hinders broader acceptance.  

 

There are dichotomies.  Household lighting has gone amost all LED.  Most of the household bulbs on the shelves now are LEDs.  Electricity suppliers have policies and ad campaigns promoting LED lighting.  Now, they might sell a few bulbs as a convenience to their customers but why would a business encourage customers to use LESS of their primary product??  Moreover, WHY would you not screw in an LED bulb that saves you money three different ways and even looks almost identical to the long-time standard incandescent fossil??  Usually the same person that won't even try an LED bulb just can't wait for a newer, more modern bike with all kinds of new fantastical fancy farkles, including some LED bulbs.   Go figure.

 

As far as legal aspects go, it's a quandry.  Google it yourself.  It's all over the place.  I've been running very bright LED's in the bikes since 2016, NEVER been stopped or questioned about them.  I don't think cops even carry a lumin meter.  9Mary7??

 

I can imagine what the forums were saying back in the day when horseless carriages and hobby horses were transitioning from candles and carbide to that new electricity stuff for lights.  Some would still be saying they'd stick with the OEM whale oil lamps because the beam pattern was better and they didn't want to offend the oncoming traffic or break the law.

 

 

[MT Wallet]

5 hours ago, Joe Coastie said:

Led lights work great in vehicles with the projector type lights.

Hid lights work better in reflector headlights.

There was a Cyclops H4 led in my 1100RT when I bought it.

I did not care for it one bit.

It got replaced wit a Osram H4 halogen because that's what I prefer.

Ultimately the choice is yours.

Do some research on the difference between led and hid.

You might be surprised.

What did you notice between the two brands? That is, what are the qualities you saw that fed your preference?

[Lowndes]

22 hours ago, gmcjetpilot said:

...

3) - LED

 

Looks like LED (with fan) would drop in. Any advice appreciated. They are reported to be better, whiter, brighter, long lived. True?

 

Yes, all can be true - IF you so choose it.  With LED's you have a wide variety of brightnesses (lumins, or LM) in a variety of colors (Kelvins or K) to choose from.  You can get as dim as you want.  All colors from a blue-white to yellow, reds, and ambers.  Plus all different sockets, too.  LED's are much more rugged, no white-hot filaments dangling from each end and waiting on a bump to break loose, LED's operate at much lower temperatures, plus they have much longer life expectancies.  

 

• Max total size: 14.65 MB

[Lowndes]

12 hours ago, Etienne Lau said:

I have the Cyclops H7 LEDs on my 2010 RT and they work just fine.

 I have a Cyclops H7 Led in my '99 R1100S Lo beam, 6 years going strong.  Really bright. Like it.

[Joe Coastie]

18 hours ago, MT Wallet said:

What did you notice between the two brands? That is, what are the qualities you saw that fed your preference?

The Cyclops beam pattern was not as defined as the Osram H4 halogen and I did not want to dazzle or blind oncoming traffic.

I don't know what the lifespan of a led is, but I get really good service from the Osram halogen lamps.

I just prefer the halogen over the led lights.

[gmcjetpilot]

Well I did it. First what a pain. You have to take the Tupperware off to get to the fog lights. I replaced ALL the lights with LED. The H3 Fog and H3 High beam bulb swap are this link.

 

https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/topic/106912-yellow-fog-lights-for-daytime-safety/#comment-1142743

 

(The H7 halogen was 4.12 Amps to 2.3 Amps for LED). I approximately paid (tax, shipping total) for pair of Low beam H7 pair cost $37 (got the fan cooled ones). Only need one, so have spare.  Again see above link for fog lights. I am pretty sure the Halogens were original 2004 48K mile.   The H3 high beam halogen pull 4.4 amps and the LED pulls 0.19 Amps. That is 22 times less current. So this may explain why they are is not as bright. However the same brand and design as the H7 which I am very happy with, are available for the H3. They cost $28 for a pair. The cheap ones I bought were $15. 

 

However for sure the cheap white LED H3 high beam is not cutting it.  I am going to leave it for now, but that will either go to the more expensive LED H3 or put the halogen back. Good news is you don't need to remove the Tupperware, it helps to have fairing off but it can be done by feel and limited access. 

 

The better H3 do not have directional emitters.  Actually none of the LED's are truly omnidirectional. None of the LED's are like a halogen, but have individual emitters.  The better ones only have two emitters but no doubt higher intensity emitters.  The cheap ones use more smaller lower  out put emitters. The two large emitters on the better LED's may be an issue? In the RT the way the reflectors are I don't think this will be a big deal, especially low beam which sits behind the high beam reflector. So the two side emitters are perfectly placed for LOW beam, I theorize (SWAG - Scientific Wild #$* Guessing).  I have not rode these lights at night. I suspect it will be fine. 

 

H7 LED is as bright and whiter than halogen. The high beam H3,  is brighter with halogen. The cheap white H3 LED works but a bit persived light. ONLY RIDING at night will tell the difference. I expect the high will throw light higher up and illuminate sighs and further down the road.  I bought, but suspect the more expensive LED H3 will be a match.

 

In all cases you save a lot of current/Amps going from Halogen bulbs to LED by 50%.  All lights (low, high, fogs) on with halogen Est. over 16 amps. All LED 4 Amps (with cheap low drain H3's) under 4 Amps. The better H3's (white only) I estimate draw 2-2.5 amps. So total draw  with all lights on, about 8-9 amps or half the halogens.  Bottom line I'd do it again except for cheap H3 for the high beam. You will not burden the wiring. The LED's get hot but the halogens get very hot or hotter as well. It was worth the effort. The H3 high will get replaced with the upgraded LED. As far as fogs the higher end LED H3's don't come in yellow. I really like the yellow. I do believe it makes the bike more visible day or night.  With 2/10th amps you can leave them on. I have about $65 and 2 hours into this. I will have to spend another $28 to $56 to replace the cheap H3's. However I am likely going to leave the yellow H3's in. The high output H3's don't come in yellow (that I could find). I think it has to do with technology of LED emitters. 

 

Bottom line I am happy with the results. I would do it again (except cheap white LED H3 for high beam, get better ones).  The only down side is the 2 hours (more like 3) of time for fairing removal and re-install, plus cursing the poor access and those dang spring clips. The high beam and low beam can be had with fairing on, but off it is easier. The fogs require you to remove the fairing. 

 

Pics are garage door closed or full daylight. First is all lights garage door closed. Second low + high full daylight. Third is low only with garage door closed. Last are LED's. Notice cheap H3's have lens on end for installations that are horizontal. However the installation of Fogs in RT are vertical and the high beam at 45 degree relative to ground.  It is possible I may put back the Halogen. Even though it draws twice the Amps it's not on all the time, and the reflector may be more suited optically for a "bulb". I will ride at night and do some test, then change high beam to either quality LED or Halogen and determine.

 

 

 

 

 

[9Mary7]

On 5/23/2023 at 9:36 AM, Lowndes said:

I've used the OEM bulbs, aftermarket incandescents, HID, halogen, and LED bulbs in bikes and cars.  The OEM's are feeble, same with the incandescents, HID's draw more current, get very hot, and are expensive to replace, halogens are a tad better than incandescents, and the LED's can be from dimmer to way brighter (depending on which bulb you choose) and are much brighter per watt (more lumins per watt), run much cooler than even the incandescents.  This is because LED's are much more efficient turning much more of the electricity into light and much less into heat.  More light, less current, less heat.  Don't take my word for it, google it.

 

The price on LED's has come way down and the quality has gone way up.  The LED bulbs are much better than they used to be.  Maybe some folks tried an early LED bulb, had problems (didn't fit right, the light pattern wasn't right, etc) and are reluctant to go down that path again.  There is also the time honored tradition of not wanting to change anything (from what one is used to, knows, likes, or the OEM) that hinders broader acceptance.  

 

There are dichotomies.  Household lighting has gone amost all LED.  Most of the household bulbs on the shelves now are LEDs.  Electricity suppliers have policies and ad campaigns promoting LED lighting.  Now, they might sell a few bulbs as a convenience to their customers but why would a business encourage customers to use LESS of their primary product??  Moreover, WHY would you not screw in an LED bulb that saves you money three different ways and even looks almost identical to the long-time standard incandescent fossil??  Usually the same person that won't even try an LED bulb just can't wait for a newer, more modern bike with all kinds of new fantastical fancy farkles, including some LED bulbs.   Go figure.

 

As far as legal aspects go, it's a quandry.  Google it yourself.  It's all over the place.  I've been running very bright LED's in the bikes since 2016, NEVER been stopped or questioned about them.  I don't think cops even carry a lumin meter.  9Mary7??

 

I can imagine what the forums were saying back in the day when horseless carriages and hobby horses were transitioning from candles and carbide to that new electricity stuff for lights.  Some would still be saying they'd stick with the OEM whale oil lamps because the beam pattern was better and they didn't want to offend the oncoming traffic or break the law.

 

 

Sorry for the delay Lowndes;

The answer is no to any sort of light meter. Most lighting laws at the enforcement level deal with glare into opposing traffic....NHTSA deals in lumens.

FWIW, I haven't been able to find LEDs that work with the reflectors in my older bikes..... bright light but not effective in lighting up the roadway.

[gmcjetpilot]

On 9/11/2023 at 1:41 PM, 9Mary7 said:

Sorry for the delay Lowndes;

The answer is no to any sort of light meter. Most lighting laws at the enforcement level deal with glare into opposing traffic....NHTSA deals in lumens.

FWIW, I haven't been able to find LEDs that work with the reflectors in my older bikes..... bright light but not effective in lighting up the roadway.

 I would qualify that. The H7 LED is as bright and whiter than the Halogen. The H3's I got were a disappointment, but there are higher out put H3's. I said they don't make YELLOW high output H3's. I was wrong they do sell them. The light is 3000K. This is less than the 6500K for the white. On my bike the "fog" or driving lights are white (halogen and non tinted lens). I plan on trying the the white H3 high output first.  I don't think having the bifurcated emitters is that critical. I could be wrong. The ones I have now have emitters 360 degrees around and one on the end. I can say the H3 of this style is not as bright as the halogen it replaced. However two very high output LED's may mitigate any directional issue of the bulb. Again shall see, 

 

I am going to buy both yellow and white H3's and install them. I will let you all know how it works out. I feel confident that the high output LED H3's will be as bright as the halogen for high beam.... . The great news is the LED's are half the current.   AS FAR AS MEASURING LIGHT... it is very difficult and requires very specific equipment and done in labs..... The best determination is try them on a pitch black dark no moon night road and subjectively compare. I wish I would have taken pictures of the illumination with stock lights and then with LED's. I am happy with the swap.  The H7 is a winner. The H3's don't cheap out. 

 

 

[RogerC60]

A few years ago I installed a high-output LED H3 in my 2003 RT, it looked similar to the ones pictured above. I had to make serious modifications to the bulb holder to make it fit. Back when I did this, the H3 bulbs that would fit without modification to the holder all had far too little light output. These days, a quick search on Amazon shows some high output H3 LED bulbs that look like they might fit. Look for a bulb whose profile on the back side of the mounting flange matches a "standard" halogen H3 bulb. Also look for a bulb where the positive wire does not come directly out of the center; that's where the ground contact / spring on the bulb holder meets the back end of the bulb.

[Pborgia]

I just did the cyclops h4 - holy shit what a difference. It’s almost like daytime. Pricey, but 100% worth it. 

[Lowndes]

When shopping for bulbs, especially LED "bulbs", there are several considerations:

 

Bulb Type:  H7 or 1157, etc.  This is the mount, or the hole you insert the bulb into in the reflector on your bike.  Don't know the bulb type?? Go to this site; I have found it to be very accurate:  https://www.superbrightleds.com/vehicle-lights/motorcycle

 

Lumens (Brightness):  Wiki says:"The lumen (symbol: lm) is the unit of luminous flux, a measure of the total quantity of visible light emitted by a source per unit of time..."

I like bright lights (to make up for my brightness deficiencies) so I look for the brightest, highest Lumens bulbs I can find.  Some makes only show Watts, so you have to convert.  Don't take MY word for it, google it  (usually 80% efficiency).  NOTE:  if the seller is offering a PAIR of bulbs for a car, the LUMENS they advertise are usually a TOTAL of the two bulbs, so take half for one bulb.  See if your Halogens or incandescent bulbs show any Lumens.  They cannot compete and hide the fact with Watts.  

 

Color - Color of the light emitted is measured in "degrees Kelvin" (temperature).  And of course, always choose the color that goes best with your tank bag.

 

 

If you are buying LED bulbs for blinkers or tail/brake lights, always get the color of the LED to match the lens - "turn signals" are amber, brake/tail lights are RED.

 

Fans and other cooling systems - Get the bulbs with the fans, always.  The "heat sink", weather braided copper or solid aluminum, don't work very well (long) in my experience,  but the fans DO work and usually last a loooong time.  All but one (RT) of my LED headlight bulb fans is inside the cover over the rear of the headlight nacelle.  The fan circulates enough air to cool the bulb and the nacelle provides enough surface area for heat transfer.

 

 

 

 

[gmcjetpilot]

Well I just got home yesterday at 12:30 AM.... On my 12 day trip, 2500 miles, 6 states, the first and last days of trip involved some night riding. The way out to West Virginia I road about 3 hours (after twilight).  Between Lexington KY and Moorhead KY there were some dark secondary highways and had to slow down as I was out running the headlights. I stopped because the rest of the way to the BMW RA Rally was in some awesome but curvy roads. I wanted to do that during the day. On the way home I had about 650 miles to go at about noon (I stopped off to do Tail of Dragon both ways and Cherohala Skyway. . I thought I would go half way to about sunset. Spend night at hotel and have easy 300 mile home in morning. 

 

However outside of Chattanooga on my way home to Memphis I decided not to stop and get home late. I felt good, weather great as darkness fell. I also did not take back roads but headed towards Nashville.  I ended up riding about 5 to 6 hours in the dark, mostly 4 lane highways or freeways with median. Some of the roads were still in the hilly parts of Tennessee. Even parts of the freeways and interstates are not well lit, but are designed for high speed. Still dark is dark. I have to see. Being Sunday night there was enough other traffic, to allow me to use other vehicles to gauge the road and light the way. Eventually I made I840 and I40 near Nashville for a straight shot at home. However late at night, road construction,  stretches' not well lit, not a bright moonlit night.  I NEEDED way more light. 

 

The H7 LED did a good job at night. This was not a cheap LED. about $40 and got the one with active fan cooling. This is a keeper.  How is the pattern? Not bad. I saw some artifacts on the side aft end where it looks like a strip. But the road ahead and the side are well lit. 

 

The cheap LED high beam and yellow fogs (all H3's) although not useless but next to useless or not effective. Those HAVE TO GO.  Keep in mind I got the cheapest LED H3's on eBay. The more expensive high output ones like the H7 are better. I will try the higher end LED H3's. In the end I may make it back to Halogen, except for low beam.... the LED H7 (more expensive style that has built in fan) will 

stay.

 

Fogs (x2 H3's) and High Beam? I am going to buy a pair of the white higher end H3 LED's. I will try one in the high beam position. If that works out I will buy more to replace the two cheap yellow fogs in WHITE with the better quality LED's.  If that does not work I will put the halogens back in if needed, but the LED H7 is a keeper. 

 

However LED AUX driving lights added on, down low, super bright white will be the ticket for fast night riding on darker roads. That is going to happen regardless. Night ridding is not my thing but when you need to do it, you can't have enough light. I don't want to leave my self in this situation. Sometimes riding at night is the ticket. 

 

I noticed some Semi Trucks are now using bright white LEDS. As I passed or was passed by the Semi's or passenger cars and trucks, on the freeway I could see the light they threw. I could compare it to my single H7 low beam. It was not bad but again I have ONE bulb compared to those vehicles two headlights.  Again the fogs and the high beam did little to add to the effectiveness of the LOW beam. The cheap LED High beam did throw a tad more light up at signs, but again the cheap LED's are weak sauce.  The good LED H7 was just much more powerful. 

[gmcjetpilot]

Well second go at LED's. The H7 low was / is a winner. Mo change. The H3's -  two fogs and one high, first time not so great. I went with cheapest and yellow LED's for two fogs. I got better H3's. Much better, ditched the yellow fogs. I liked the look and think yellow day time may make you more visable to other drivers. If going night riding on dark rural roads, AUX lights I think a must additionto stock lights. I don't ride nights a lot. I have not rode with bee set-up, but it will be significantly no doubt.

 

Day I run the Low (DRL) and Fogs. The total draw is est. 4.5 for all three LED's, 2.5A for low H7 and 1A for each Fog H3's. Total 4.5A for all three. Halogen, 3 bulbs total would be over 13 Amps.