2004 R11O0S cuts out underway.

[dirtrider]

10 hours ago, Hadabadachada said:

So by the looks of it, the ECU for my bike has the same part number for quite a few others that use the same 2.4 motronic.

but I assume I probably have to look for one from an S as they probably have different tunes for different bikes right? 
GS vs R vs RT etc

 

 

drained tank completely dry last night, and ran a light from the main coil to keep an eye on, also picked up a NOID bulb that seems to fit my connector, now just waiting for the bike to hiccup again to have a look. 
 

also keeping my eyes open for used R1150/R1200 R,RT,RS bikes for a good price. 

(please don’t link me to the one in the classifieds that seems to have the same electrical gremlin as mine lol)

Morning Hadabadachada

 

You need (would prefer anyhow) a Motronic from a late twin spark 1100S. There is white tag on your current Motronic, try to at least match the main part number & as much of the other info as possible.  The parts book shows a replacement but those usually cover a lot of models. Basically any 1150 twin spark Motronic will work but the closer that you match to your existing 1100S the better.

[Hadabadachada]

I was wondering…

think it could maybe be the injectors?

 

After draining tank dry and hooking light to main coil, yesterday the bike died pulling up to a stop sign. This was one out of id say 6 cold starts and runs. While trying to restart, the main coil light was on the whole time, never went out. 
it felt like the bike really wanted to start, but wasn’t.  Took out the NOID bulb, powered bike on, tried to crank, no go, unplugged an injector hooked up the bulb, pushed starter, bike started.
Saw the bulb lighting up, BUT, bike started, so it should work. Thought it was rough obviously on one cylinder. BUT it was still running on one cylinder…
such a weird intermittent problem and that’s pretty much how it’s gone, dies, won’t start, then just starts. Sometimes takes longer than others. 
so that made me think, maybe it could be injectors?? Since I hadn’t really thought about that one. 
 

it’s still usually always within that first 3 miles after a cold start. Only thing in common with the dying. If I can get passed 4 miles or so without it dying, I feel good. 
 

we will see next time it doesn’t start for a prolonged period, how the light bulb works plug into injector wire. 
 

this one was kinda weird the way it felt like it was trying to start but not getting enough fuel or something. 
 

At least I can check the, water in the fuel off the list, not that. 

[dirtrider]

53 minutes ago, Hadabadachada said:

I was wondering…

think it could maybe be the injectors?

 

After draining tank dry and hooking light to main coil, yesterday the bike died pulling up to a stop sign. This was one out of id say 6 cold starts and runs. While trying to restart, the main coil light was on the whole time, never went out. 
it felt like the bike really wanted to start, but wasn’t.  Took out the NOID bulb, powered bike on, tried to crank, no go, unplugged an injector hooked up the bulb, pushed starter, bike started.
Saw the bulb lighting up, BUT, bike started, so it should work. Thought it was rough obviously on one cylinder. BUT it was still running on one cylinder…
such a weird intermittent problem and that’s pretty much how it’s gone, dies, won’t start, then just starts. Sometimes takes longer than others. 
so that made me think, maybe it could be injectors?? Since I hadn’t really thought about that one. 
 

it’s still usually always within that first 3 miles after a cold start. Only thing in common with the dying. If I can get passed 4 miles or so without it dying, I feel good. 
 

we will see next time it doesn’t start for a prolonged period, how the light bulb works plug into injector wire. 
 

this one was kinda weird the way it felt like it was trying to start but not getting enough fuel or something. 
 

At least I can check the, water in the fuel off the list, not that. 

Morning Hadabadachada

 

I do not think it is the injectors, they usually work or they don't & I haven't ever seen one act up at the 3-4 mile mark then be OK before or after that. 

 

Maybe try warming the motorcycle at home in place to about the 3-4 mile engine heating  (or ride it 3-4 miles) then unplug the injectors & measure the injector resistance (they should be close to each other) 

 

You are starting to rule things out so hopefully you can catch a no-start then a crank-no-restart with the NOID light (that will tell us something right there).

 

If I had to guess based on just the 3-4 mile thing it would be an engine sensor (or Motronic). Either the TPS, or the engine temperature, or the o2 sensor. (are you still riding with the o2 & x-eid disconnected?) If not then you STILL need those disconnected until you find the root of the problem as they BOTH need to be completely out of the system.

 

My first guess would be the engine temperature sensor (does your dash RID temp gauge look OK throughout the ride & through the stall no-restart sequence?). 

 

It could be the TPS but those usually cause other riding issues along with a stalling starting issue. 

 

Or it could be the Motronic in how it reads & processes the engine temperature input. 

 

That restart after installing the NOID light is a bit puzzling, it could just be coincidence or possibly the lack of one injector connection changed the injector load on the Motronic. See if you can duplicate the restart if you get another stall with no-restart.  

[Hadabadachada]

Yeah, seemed more like a coincidence that it started right up. It felt like it wanted to…more than previous no starts, so I’m not putting much thought into that one.

 

bike still going with no O2 or anything connected. 
 

I don’t have a HUD on the S so I have no idea what the temp is reading.

 

What sensors are there? 
air temp in the air box and oil temp on the top/side of the engine? 

the TPS I haven’t messed with since I rebuilt the throttle bodies. Over a year ago. Never a running issue.
it’s run fine other than this issue. And still runs perfectly fine other than the intermittent dying/no start. I’ve gone Miami to PA and back as well as my daily riding. Maybe somethings fouled up in the TPS, who knows. Doesn’t seem like it.
only issues riding is the stalling problem or the occasional stutter where it doesn’t actually die, which are both related, happening in that cold start time frame or not at all. 
 

Feels to me like some kinda signal issue. I’ve thought maybe it’s a sensor the way it happens, but I don’t know enough to really figure. 
 

or the thoughts always there from

reading other things on the internet that it could be a wire thing still.

I really don’t want to cut apart the harness. There’s no obvious issues in corners or edges of bends or anything. But I guess maybe there could be somewhere. Or something along those lines. 

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Hadabadachada

 

 

 

bike still going with no O2 or anything connected.--  OK don't re-connect those until you have the stalling issue solved.
 

I don’t have a HUD on the S so I have no idea what the temp is reading.-- OK, this will make it more difficult to see if the engine temp sensor is causing the issue. You can remove & test the engine temp sensor with an ohmmeter but that might not catch a sensor intermittent issue.

It might be easier & a more positive test to just buy a $12.00- $15.00 engine temp sensor on E-Bay just to eliminate your sensor as the problem.

 

What sensors are there? 
air temp in the air box and oil temp on the top/side of the engine? --HES, AIT (Air Intake Sensor), engine (oil) temp sensor, TPS, altitude pressure sensor (inside the Motronic) . Typically the TPS or AIT are not big players in that 2-4 mile stalling issue.

the TPS I haven’t messed with since I rebuilt the throttle bodies.-- That might have to be looked at eventually but it is probably WAY down the list. 

 
Feels to me like some kinda signal issue. I’ve thought maybe it’s a sensor the way it happens, but I don’t know enough to really figure.-- This sure is possible but you seem to be eliminating some of them.

 

or the thoughts always there from reading other things on the internet that it could be a wire thing still.

I really don’t want to cut apart the harness. There’s no obvious issues in corners or edges of bends or anything. But I guess maybe there could be somewhere. Or something along those lines.-- This is what the test lights are for as those are great for seeing what is happening on the 12v supply side of things. 

 

 

[dirtrider]

Evening  Hadabadachada

 

Let's take a step back here & look at it from another perspective_

 

Can you remember EXACTLY when the first time the this problem showed up? Then back up slightly more & think if anything was done or added to that motorcycle just prior to problem first showing up (ANYTHING)? 

[Hadabadachada]

Alright, so I track every fuel up on Fuelly, so I just went back through.

 

a year ago, March 2022, I was having issues starting the bike. Sometimes it wouldn’t start,(basically what happens when it dies and won’t start now) then it starts. 
I think we’ve discussed that back then, and we were thinking maybe an oil temp sensor or some other things. Cold start issue.
 

Maybe that’s when this started because it was the same deal, just only on cold starts once in awhile. but I don’t see any notes of doing anything to the bike previous to this.

I ebayed a used oil temp sensor, same part number, used. Swapped that out. 

 

I didn’t have anymore tough cold start issues after doing that.
But I see a month after that oil temp sensor swap, the cut out thing started happening from what I noted. 
that’s the only thing I see that I did before the current issue. 
 

I guess I can throw the old oil temp sensor back in and see what that does. Guess it can’t hurt, lol

Maybe it’ll have tough cold starts but no cut outs…

 

let me upload this video to YouTube from going home from work tonight…interesting deal

[Hadabadachada]

https://youtu.be/RhAC1F67gvM

 

first video was yesterday, died pulling up to stop sign within a mile and a half of a cold start, this is what happened.

 

https://youtu.be/do0nmYLjGWY

 

second one was tonight leaving work, all within a mile and a half after cold start. Make the turn and it hiccups right after the little bump, but doesn’t die. Pull up to light wait for green, then go behind the slow people, then it dies.

 

interesting both of these last two times it’s died, seems like as soon as I unhook the injector it starts

 

next time I’ll try the left injector

 

i leave the power on, try to crank before unhooking the injector in the first video, then unhook injector and connect light it starts, second video, I leave power on, unhook injector; then try to crank again before hooking up bulb, starts up, weird deal here. 
 

I went and had a look around all the wires that weren’t all wrapped up under my gas tank, did not notice anything odd to my eyeballs….

 

kinda interesting deal, next time it dies I’m going to unhook injector right away and try. 

[dirtrider]

10 hours ago, Hadabadachada said:

https://youtu.be/RhAC1F67gvM

 

first video was yesterday, died pulling up to stop sign within a mile and a half of a cold start, this is what happened.

 

https://youtu.be/do0nmYLjGWY

 

second one was tonight leaving work, all within a mile and a half after cold start. Make the turn and it hiccups right after the little bump, but doesn’t die. Pull up to light wait for green, then go behind the slow people, then it dies.

 

interesting both of these last two times it’s died, seems like as soon as I unhook the injector it starts

 

next time I’ll try the left injector

 

i leave the power on, try to crank before unhooking the injector in the first video, then unhook injector and connect light it starts, second video, I leave power on, unhook injector; then try to crank again before hooking up bulb, starts up, weird deal here. 
 

I went and had a look around all the wires that weren’t all wrapped up under my gas tank, did not notice anything odd to my eyeballs….

 

kinda interesting deal, next time it dies I’m going to unhook injector right away and try. 

Morning  Hadabadachada

 

That injector disconnect thing is strange. IF (big if here) it is related to disconnecting an injector then you might be looking at an injector resistance change (lower resistance at a certain temperature) causing the Motronic to lose control, or it c-o-u-l-d be due to you moving the injector wiring around during the disconnect. (would probably be the Motronic side (control side) shorted to ground.   

 

You would t-h-i-n-k  that if the injector or wiring was going open then it would still try to start on the other side injector? 

 

You might be able to buy a new injector connector with pigtail at your local auto parts store so you could make a jumper between your existing injector & the main wire harness. Then  run 3 wires from that jumper up to a higher area where you could add a center-off double throw switch then add in your NOID light up high. Put the switching in the Motronic side of the jumper not the 12v side. (that 3rd wire is for the NOID light 12v).

 

Move switch in one direction is Motronic control to injector as normal, switch in center is injector command disconnect (Motronic side disconnected), switch in the other direction is injector (Motronic side) disconnected but NOID light connected. 

 

You might put your old engine temp sensor back in at some point but just do one thing at a time. Seeing as there is a slight possibility that your problem is engine temp related  then look REAL CLOSELY at the engine side of the engine temp connector for loose terminal contact, wire connection issues at/in the connector,  obvious wire issues on the chassis side of the engine temp connector. 

 

You can test the old engine temp sensor but with your problem being so random, or temperature related it might be difficult to catch without  a lot of testing, or even using an ohmmeter that can live track the resistance string as the temp sensor warms up.  

 

 

[Hadabadachada]

Howdy. Just here on the side of the road again.

I got a new to me R1200R to put this S off to the side as it’s leaving me on the side of the road almost every ride now. Sometimes it’ll start up after a minute or two of off and on stuff, this time it’s been 15 minutes and nothing. 
 

I would be on the Roadster but with this absolutely ridiculous gas shortage happening in south Florida right now, I’m on the Sportster because it has gas in it. 
 

but it’s been cutting out almost every ride. 
I think i may try and pick up one of them used ECUs for it and give it a whirl, when I can afford it. 
 

I tried disconnecting the injector and all that, don’t have the bulb on me, but was trying, did nothing. 
it’s just not making some kinda connection somewhere.  Who knows what.

 

I did notice the other day a box. 
when I replaced the HES I bought the euro moto electric one, everlast or whatever. Im wondering if it’s a bo bo part. I’ve had bad luck with their branded fuel pumps, I don’t know what’s causing the die then trouble starting, then start right up like nothing, at some point down the line. 
 

 

[Hadabadachada]

Yup, fired right up after typing that.

[Hadabadachada]

Okay, looks like this time it’s dying multiple times.

it almost feels like I get up to a certain rev and sit there for a minute and it just dies, like a switch is turned.

was able to start it up with two tries the last one, this one’s not giving it up so easy. 
On and off on and off on and off. 
 

im so damn close to home! 

[dirtrider]

12 hours ago, Hadabadachada said:

Howdy. Just here on the side of the road again.

I got a new to me R1200R to put this S off to the side as it’s leaving me on the side of the road almost every ride now. Sometimes it’ll start up after a minute or two of off and on stuff, this time it’s been 15 minutes and nothing. 
 

I would be on the Roadster but with this absolutely ridiculous gas shortage happening in south Florida right now, I’m on the Sportster because it has gas in it. 
 

but it’s been cutting out almost every ride. 
I think i may try and pick up one of them used ECUs for it and give it a whirl, when I can afford it. 
 

I tried disconnecting the injector and all that, don’t have the bulb on me, but was trying, did nothing. 
it’s just not making some kinda connection somewhere.  Who knows what.

 

I did notice the other day a box. 
when I replaced the HES I bought the euro moto electric one, everlast or whatever. Im wondering if it’s a bo bo part. I’ve had bad luck with their branded fuel pumps, I don’t know what’s causing the die then trouble starting, then start right up like nothing, at some point down the line. 
 

 

Morning  Hadabadachada

 

You would think that if the HES is the problem then your NOID light would catch the lack of injection pulses or the spark test would catch the lack of spark. Obviously you need to test for both injection pulses & spark when the failure to start is present.

[Hadabadachada]

Yeah I wonder if it could be like plug wires or something. 
 

Yesterday was new though. Usually dies and eventually restarts. 
it died kinda normal, in the first 2 miles. Didn’t restart for 10-15 minutes. The first few attempts were close felt like it wanted to go but didn’t. Typed up that post, tried again started. Rode 2 miles, died again, got off the road, started in two tries. Kept going, 1/2 mile later died again. Didn’t start for 5-7 minutes. Started, rode another mile and it died pulling into my hood. 
haven’t had that before. 
 

had to go look for gas for the new bike, I can’t do that anymore, lost confidence. 
 

I was thinking about checking the plugs again. Checking the connecting for fuel and spark. As there is spare time anyway. Not such a big deal anymore.

[Jim Moore]

I'd try jumping the sidestand switch and buying a used coil off eBay. There's one for $60 right now, complete with plug wires.

[Hadabadachada]

Thought about doing the coil thing. 
pretty sure it’s not kickstand the way it puffs like it wants to start.

Doesn’t the kickstand switch prevent it from running the starter? I can’t remember. 
 

when it dies and I’m coasting to a stop, clutch pulled in, I’m pressing the starter and it cranks just usually doesn’t start, it has started before tho, and just keep going. 
 

guess I can try disabling the switch anyway. 
im trying everything!
 

I was going thru my Fuelly history trying to pinpoint. And I can’t really find a point where I did something to cause a change. 
 

my coils all have power, but that doesn’t really say if they are sending the signal. I’ve thought about that a lot. 
stick coils I’ve replaced, main coil I have not.

maybe I’ll have to take a shot on that used one. 

[Hadabadachada]

Hello again.

 

so red bike has just been sitting.

I was starting it up every week, pull it out ride around the block a few times, just to keep it moving. Still would die out all of a sudden here and there. 

recently I was trying to start it and it wouldn’t start, and has started since.

so not even running then dying and then not starting, just not starting at all now. 
 

so I pulled the plugs, they are sparking beautifully, pulled the injectors, they are shooting.

 

i wonder if it’s the HES?

It’s getting spark but maybe not at the right time? I don’t know how it works, but it’s getting old. 

 

I need to hook up the GS911 and mess with the HES. I replaced it with a euro moto electric one probably 30,000 miles ago, I can’t find the record of it, but it was done. Maybe it’s gone bad? 
 

been lazy to take photos to sell it, I’d rather not, but what’s the point.

[dirtrider]

19 minutes ago, Hadabadachada said:

Hello again.

 

so red bike has just been sitting.

I was starting it up every week, pull it out ride around the block a few times, just to keep it moving. Still would die out all of a sudden here and there. 

recently I was trying to start it and it wouldn’t start, and has started since.

so not even running then dying and then not starting, just not starting at all now. 
 

so I pulled the plugs, they are sparking beautifully, pulled the injectors, they are shooting.

 

i wonder if it’s the HES?

It’s getting spark but maybe not at the right time? I don’t know how it works, but it’s getting old. 

 

I need to hook up the GS911 and mess with the HES. I replaced it with a euro moto electric one probably 30,000 miles ago, I can’t find the record of it, but it was done. Maybe it’s gone bad? 
 

been lazy to take photos to sell it, I’d rather not, but what’s the point.

Evening Hadabadachada

 

If it's spraying (good quality) fuel from the injectors & getting a decent spark then IT WILL RUN as long as it has compression & spark at the correct time.

 

As for the HES being out of time, not likely, but even if it was then with the lost spark type system then it would be popping pretty bad back though the intake or out the exhaust.  

 

Is the fuel OK, like no water in it? 

 

Have you tried to start it with the throttle held at about 1/8 to 1/4 open? 

 

How much fuel is spraying from the injectors? A little looks like a lot when sprayed into a fine mist. It takes a pretty good spray to get them started.  

 

Maybe try removing the air filter element then spraying in a little starting either, of spray some in through the throttle body nipples.