Electricians, can ya answer me this

[ESokoloff]

22 hours ago, Scott9999 said:

Ya know, that's what I thought when I did an electrical renovation on my second house

Show me the NEC code that forbids 12awg on a 15a circuit. 

It takes a bit of intellect to (successfully) work with electricity. 
Every breaker’s capacity is clearly marked on its switch. 
Best to look at the breaker to determine circuit capacity. 

[ESokoloff]

As long as we’re discussing potential electrical gotchas, shared neutrals can be tricky….

 

  

[Hosstage]

Shared neutrals are no longer allowed on new installs.

[ESokoloff]

1 hour ago, Hosstage said:

Shared neutrals are no longer allowed on new installs.

(A) plenty of ‘em left out in the wild to watch out for.

(B) I believe can’t be used on GFCI & AFCI  circuits & may not be allowed in certain jurisdictions but are they against current NEC code? 
https://esgrounding.com/blog/how-many-hot-wires-can-a-single-neutral-support-assuming-they-are-the-same-gauge-wire?hs_amp=true

[Rougarou]

Code,....more like guidelines

 

 

[Hosstage]

I believe current code does not allow shared neutrals on new installs. We run into problems with them working on previously allowed systems when doing moves, adds and changes in commercial buildings, especially hospitals, many electronic instruments and computers do not like the surges or disconnects without proper shut down first. When many devices are running off one circuit, or multiple circuits sharing a neutral, and a building has been "modified" over the years without clear documentation, it takes a lot longer to "just add an outlet" to track down everything that might be affected. Even then, surprises are not surprising.

"Hey, my PC just went down."

Hmm, it shouldn't have. I'll look into it. (WTF is going on here??)

[Hosstage]

Also remember that the local "jurisdiction having authority (the inspector)" can require actions above and beyond what code calls for. That is written into the code. It can be disputed thru the local electrical board, but it is often just easier to redo a small job to meet specs than to fight it.

[terryofperry]

Shared neutrals are allowed under the present National Electric Code as long as other conditions are met, one of those requirements is for all circuits sharing the neutral to be simultaneously disconnected, meaning a 2 pole breaker or 3 pole breaker. It is not good practice, not good for the customer nor good for those working on the circuit(s) in the future. It is dangerous and should be avoided.

 

Terry

[Hosstage]

21 minutes ago, terryofperry said:

Shared neutrals are allowed under the present National Electric Code as long as other conditions are met, one of those requirements is for all circuits sharing the neutral to be simultaneously disconnected, meaning a 2 pole breaker or 3 pole breaker. It is not good practice, not good for the customer nor good for those working on the circuit(s) in the future. It is dangerous and should be avoided.

 

Terry

Hence the reason we are not allowed to share neutrals on our sites, it is not possible to disconnect multiple circuits at one time without major consideration to deal with the outage.

[Scott9999]

3 hours ago, Hosstage said:

Hence the reason we are not allowed to share neutrals on our sites, it is not possible to disconnect multiple circuits at one time without major consideration to deal with the outage.

When I was messing around with my home's electrical circuits, trying to figure out how my electrician had wired our great room dimmers (which didn't work properly), so that I could replace them (so that they would work properly), I eventually figured out that the neutrals were shared between circuits.  I think that's what you folks (and the video - didn't finish it yet; it's bookmarked) are talking about.  It made it difficult as heck during testing, to isolate the circuit.   I kept thinking (yelling?!) "why the f**k are these circuits still testing as live, when the breakers are clearly off?"  I finally gave up after spending a couple of hours, and just disconnected all three switches, to figure out where the circuit began.  (The series of dimmers has a lead, with two companion switches, and I "thought" the lead had to be at the start of the circuit).  Of course, where power entered wasn't the "obvious" place, where I thought it was.

 

Anyhow, I could see how shared neutrals could be a problem, particularly on a larger project, like a commercial building.  Good stuff to know.

[Hosstage]

A friend of mine is an electrician (I'm low voltage but work around them all the time), he does a lot of residential, he is incredible with troubleshooting, has a great grasp of how it works, what people do that have no business doing it, and having to deal with conversions from knob-and-tube and Greenfield (metal flex conduit that is used as the ground wire, no fun) to Romex or other. By other, I mean sometimes lamp cord or extension cord in the wall. He's seen it all.

 

[Rougarou]

5 minutes ago, Hosstage said:

. By other, I mean sometimes lamp cord or extension cord in the wall. He's seen it all.

 

 

One of my old neighbors decided to get "green" so he bought windmill kit (he's an aging hippie).  It's a small windmill kit, prolly couldn't power a lightbulb, but alas, he had the effort, also, windmill wasn't high enough to catch wind. He ran the wiring into the house, has an inverter that plugs into an outlet to backfeed power (this is in his downstairs garage).  Anyway, this clown decided to have the garage turned into an apartment for his 96yo mother in law.  When the walls went up, I asked him where the inverter went,...."I just left it behind the wall",........tch, tch, tch,.....even I wouldn't do that-I'm surprised his contractor did.  

 

Turned out a nice little apartment,.....to bad mom-in-law died just after it was finished and never moved in.

[Hosstage]

People are idiots when it comes to electricity.

We are now dealing with low voltage circuits (power over Ethernet) that can overheat if bundled to largely or tightly and cause fires. Since everything is going this way, it will become a larger issue just like high voltage. Many appliances in your house could run off your computer lines, including lights, TVs, anything with a transformer (or brick) on the cord, actual computers. Think large bundles of wire in commercial applications. Many appliances will be converted in the future with low voltage motors. So far clothes washers, driers, and dishwashers probably not, but who knows going forward.

Standard 4 pair computer wire is rated for 600 volts. Low amperage, but high voltage. Power will be pushed further to that limit going forward. That rating isn't printed on the wire or idiots would be using it as electrical wire.

[Rougarou]

1 hour ago, Hosstage said:

People are idiots when it comes to electricity.

 

[Rougarou]

Ok, I failed to take a happy snap before removing a switch and am in a quandary   This switch is for a range hood.  It powers a single light bulb and single speed fan.   What is throwing me is that there is a short 3ish inch wire that was part of this set up.  I know it was on the switch jumping/bridging a connection, but I cannot figure out which.  The old switch did work, but the part where the knob would go is broken, and the knob was what held it in place. 

 

The back of the old switch is labeled exactly as the below picture, with L, 1, 2, 3.  Soooo, with a new switch, what's the wiring diagram?

 

The settings were:

 

Off

Light only

Fan only

Light and fan on

 

[ESokoloff]

Looking at this https://m.alibaba.com/product/60840577187/4-Position-3-Speed-Tuowei-Item.html?spm=a2706.7835515.0.0.26375057WGwU36&__detailProductImg=https://s.alicdn.com/@sc04/kf/HTB1BJyEaUvrK1RjSszfq6xJNVXaX.jpg_220x220.jpg

I’m guessing that the pigtail is L (or the common hot wire). 
Also a guess that L & 1 are the same but would need an Ohm meter to be sure as well as sorting out how to wire it up to the two loads.  
 

What ever you do, keep the smoke in the wire.