Oil Change at 4,500 miles?

[Bob_1978]

My mechanic likes the idea of reducing the oil change interval from 6,000 to 4,500.  I don't mind changing the oil myself but there is some advantage to staying in synch with the 6,000 maintenance intervals and having him to the work.

 

He's more of an adventure / off road enthusiast so I can see where he's coming from, but my riding style is highway -- 100 mile average trips at 45-50mph average speed.  No stop and go and no daily commuting.

 

Any thoughts / advice?  Thanks

[6speedTi]

Did he give any reasons why the reduction in intervals?

[lkraus]

Ask him for the evidence that shows a benefit from the early oil change.

When he can't find any, tell him

 

 

Have an analysis done on your used oil.

 

Make your own choice.

 

I suspect the change interval could actually be increased safely.

[Bob_1978]

No reason other than a bit of a grimace while he says "....6,000 is a LOT of miles...."

[6speedTi]

I have 96,000 miles. Been using Mobile 1  15w/50 after initial break-in.  My consumption rate has not changed since it settled after the break-in was done. I always kept my oil changes at 6,000 mile intervals. When I reach 100,000 miles I'll pull an oil sample and send it out for analysis. So that is how my camhead boxer engine is performing upto now. I plan on leaving the intervals at 6,000  miles.

[Randyjaco]

I do my own bike work and I use Mobile 1 too, but I do my maintenance every February regardless of mileage.  Modern synthetic oils are good for at least 10K miles. If I did more extreme riding I would probably do it more often.  But that has been my regimen for the past 40 years 

[Skywagon]

Unless you are seeing metal in the oil or filter (hope you cut the filter open), then no reason to go that soon on oil unless in some extreme conditions.  If metal in the oil or filter then I can see doing it a little more often until you can identify the metal and cause...suspect that is not an issue though.  I am a nut case on oil changes as live in a hot climate.  I change it at 5-7k and honestly that is too often with modern oil.

[Hosstage]

Given the choice between changing it too early or wondering if it is changed too late, I lean toward early. Maybe a waste of money, but is it? In the long run, it adds a few extra oil changes over the life of the bike.

[Dave_in_TX]

7 hours ago, Bob_1978 said:

No reason other than a bit of a grimace while he says "....6,000 is a LOT of miles...."

For the usage you described, 6000 IS NOT a lot of miles.

[Rougarou]

Got a guy here at work that has a 2018 Ram 2500, he changes his oil at 3k even though the book calls for 10k.  I asked why and he responded that "Daddy says to always change the oil at 3k",........this guy is in his late 40's  

 

On my bikes, I go over the recommendations most times,....sometimes way over.

[dirtrider]

20 hours ago, Bob_1978 said:

My mechanic likes the idea of reducing the oil change interval from 6,000 to 4,500.  I don't mind changing the oil myself but there is some advantage to staying in synch with the 6,000 maintenance intervals and having him to the work.

 

He's more of an adventure / off road enthusiast so I can see where he's coming from, but my riding style is highway -- 100 mile average trips at 45-50mph average speed.  No stop and go and no daily commuting.

 

Any thoughts / advice?  Thanks

Morning Bob 

 

I pretty well base my oil changes on time, with that time modified by mileage. 

 

If only 4,500 miles ridden in a year then that motorcycle gets an oil/filter change around  the 1 year mark.

 

If I am using an uplevel synthetic & that bike is used a lot then as long as I ride it under 10,000 miles in a year with no oil overheating, or not too much very cold riding (below freezing that won't typically burn the moisture out of the oil), then that bike is 1 year or 10,000 miles whichever comes first. 

 

I live in an area with defined cold winters (no riding then except a couple of dedicated beater bikes) so I try my best to get an oil change in before extended winter storage as I REALLY do not like to store any vehicle through extended storage with any chance of acidic oil in it. (I have seen enough engines with etched crankshaft & camshaft journals in my long life due to longer storage intervals  with acidic oil that fresh oil before storage is a top priority with me). But keep in mind that I am apt to ride a motorcycle right up until there is salt on the roads so my bikes might see a number of very cold (well below freezing) starting & riding events.  

 

I would much rather go 12,000 miles on an oil change to be able to get to late fall THEN change out the oil for winter storage with fresh oil than to change it mid summer then store the motorcycle with used (possibly acidic) oil. 

 

If I had my way I would completely do away with oil changes by miles and  use hours-of-run time like my off-road equipment uses.

 

Modern automobiles are getting better as some have pretty sophisticated oil change algorithm based  systems that use number of cold starts, miles traveled at different speeds, engine idling time, ambient temps, engine temps, etc that do a pretty good job of allowing longer times between oil changes but most are still capped with a 1 year oil change interval regardless of the other factors.  

 

6,000 mile of stop & go riding with lots of idling & many many cold starts with long hours of run time per mile is probably plenty far on an oil change.

 

15,000 miles in 30 days is nothing on a good quality synthetic  oil.  

 

 

 

 

[szurszewski]

Other than low miles per year and changing annually, the only reason I can see to lower the interval to 4500 is to spend more on oil (and labor if you’re paying him to do it). Do you have money you need to spend? If so we can offer lots of alternative suggestions. 

[M Novack]

Modern Synthetic oils with cars now have intervals between 5,000 and 10,000 miles and if I recall there may be a manufacturer that goes 12,000. Oils have been improved and designed to go this long. Personally I set my intervals at 5,000 l might go over or be on a long trip and I have 1,000 miles before it is actually due. Recently I went on a long trip and was at 5,300 miles when back and then rode a couple days locally before I changed it so it might have been 5,375 so I was not over but I found a convenient day to change it before it was at the interval due. If I had needed to go to 5,800 miles due to a trip or schedule it would have been no big deal. I do it myself and get a discount on oil as I work in auto repair, so its not that much to change it 2-3 times per year.

[AdmiralDenny]

I’ve owned 46 motorcycles and I’m on my 4th BMW (2021 R1250RT).  Every motorcycle I’ve ever owned gets the engine oil and the final drive gear oil (as applicable) changed at 50/250/500/1000/2000 miles and then every 2,500 miles thereafter.  For my RT, I only use Amsoil MCV Metric 10W40 and Amsoil Severe Gear 75W110.  Other than slight discoloration, the engine and gear oils both come out almost as clean as they went in and after the 1,000 mile change, I have no particulate stuck to the magnetic drain plugs.  I also attach a high-strength neodymium rare earth magnet (available online from many sources) to the top of the oil filter to help keep the smallest of particles inside the filter.  I also use K&N oil filters exclusively.  The 17mm nut on the top of the filter allows easy On and Off and makes it very easy to properly torque the filter to spec.  Amsoil isn’t cheap but neither is a BMW.  The best thing you can do for your bike is to keep fresh oil, coolant and clutch/brake fluid in it.  I read a study not long ago that tested many auto and motorcycle specific oils.  ALL OF THEM lost 20% of their viscosity in the first 1,500 miles.  After 1,500 miles, even the best Amsoil 10W40 is now an 8W32. By the time you reach 4, 5, or even 6,000 miles, your oil viscosity is gone and its ability to withstand shear forces is non-existent (especially in high revving engines) and is literally, thin, dirty soup.  My 50+ years of riding tells me to change your oil (and all fluids) regularly and we’ll before they need it.  Blessings to all from the Great Republic of Texas! 🙏

[AdmiralDenny]

On 11/1/2022 at 9:02 AM, M Novack said:

Modern Synthetic oils with cars now have intervals between 5,000 and 10,000 miles and if I recall there may be a manufacturer that goes 12,000. Oils have been improved and designed to go this long. Personally I set my intervals at 5,000 l might go over or be on a long trip and I have 1,000 miles before it is actually due. Recently I went on a long trip and was at 5,300 miles when back and then rode a couple days locally before I changed it so it might have been 5,375 so I was not over but I found a convenient day to change it before it was at the interval due. If I had needed to go to 5,800 miles due to a trip or schedule it would have been no big deal. I do it myself and get a discount on oil as I work in auto repair, so its not that much to change it 2-3 times per year.

I certainly agree that the technology has made great strides and reduced tolerances but we also have to consider that there isn’t a current oil on the market that can withstand shear forces and not lose 20% of its viscosity within the first 1,500 miles.  That testing is available online if you want to read the study.  That being known, coupled with the fact that I wouldn’t trust any manufacturer’s recommendations on oil changes, any more than ‘some’ manufacturers transmission statement that their tranny oil is a lifetime fill.  I trusted Volvo on that and our brand new car’s tranny went out at 75,000 miles.  The “Lifetime Fill” tranny fluid came out black and smelling burnt.  Drain and fill your vehicles transmission fluid every 40,000 miles.  Do not believe the manufacturer.  They are not in the business to have your car’s engine go forever and only make money when you need parts or a new vehicle.  Do not be deceived.  Mobil 1 has an oil they claim only requires oil changes every 15,000 miles.  Lol.  If you want to ruin your engine and cause excessive wear…follow the manufacture’s recommendations 

[Rougarou]

3 minutes ago, AdmiralDenny said:

  Every motorcycle I’ve ever owned gets the engine oil and the final drive gear oil (as applicable) changed at 50/250/500/1000/2000 miles and then every 2,500 miles thereafter. 

 

 

Oh-va-keel fo sho, but to each their own and welcome to the board.

[AdmiralDenny]

2 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

 

 

Oh-va-keel fo sho, but to each their own and welcome to the board.

Not if you understand how oil reacts to shear forces and the extreme heat created inside engines, especially motorcycle engines, and of those, especially air cooled engines without an exterior oil cooler.  Personally I’d rather spend the money and time to regularly change my fluids, and know that my engine internals will stay clean as a whistle and never even experience varnish buildup.  My R1250RT also shifts like butter, across all gears, up and down without the normal clunk going into 1st.

[dirtrider]

23 minutes ago, AdmiralDenny said:

I certainly agree that the technology has made great strides and reduced tolerances but we also have to consider that there isn’t a current oil on the market that can withstand shear forces and not lose 20% of its viscosity within the first 1,500 miles.  That testing is available online if you want to read the study.  That being known, coupled with the fact that I wouldn’t trust any manufacturer’s recommendations on oil changes, any more than ‘some’ manufacturers transmission statement that their tranny oil is a lifetime fill.  I trusted Volvo on that and our brand new car’s tranny went out at 75,000 miles.  The “Lifetime Fill” tranny fluid came out black and smelling burnt.  Drain and fill your vehicles transmission fluid every 40,000 miles.  Do not believe the manufacturer.  They are not in the business to have your car’s engine go forever and only make money when you need parts or a new vehicle.  Do not be deceived.  Mobil 1 has an oil they claim only requires oil changes every 15,000 miles.  Lol.  If you want to ruin your engine and cause excessive wear…follow the manufacture’s recommendations 

Morning AdmiralDenny

 

So post up some of your motorcycle oil analysis reports sent in at 1500 miles showing that 20% loss?  

 

If you are getting a 20% viscosity loss at 1500 miles then you are definitely using the wrong motor oil.

 

I have oil analysis reports both on my personal motorcycles & through my day job in engineering showing that oil is still very well within  API and ACEA specifications with additive packages still decent at 8,000+ miles.

 

Oil shearing can be a factor if using certain non uplevel (re cheap) oils that have a lot of polymers in them for viscosity stabilization. Most if not all modern uplevel motor oils have a much lower polymer content in them to shear.   

[AdmiralDenny]

10 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Morning AdmiralDenny

 

So post up some of your motorcycle oil analysis reports sent in at 1500 miles showing that 20% loss?  

 

If you are getting a 20% viscosity loss at 1500 miles then you are definitely using the wrong motor oil.

 

I have oil analysis reports both on my personal motorcycles & through my day job in engineering showing that oil is still very well within  API and ACEA specifications with additive packages still decent at 8,000+ miles.

 

Oil shearing can be a factor if using certain non uplevel (re cheap) oils that have a lot of polymers in them for viscosity stabilization. Most if not all modern uplevel motor oils have a lot less polymers in them to shear.   

I’ll see if I can find the testing analysis online again.  I didn’t bookmark it.  I have to disagree though.  I’m a System’s engineer and worked on defense programs for 30 years.  Being ‘in spec’ doesn’t mean the oil didn’t lose viscosity, only that the manufacturer ’believes’ the oil can still perform.  It’s your bike and up to you how you maintain it.  My choice is to continue the maintenance schedule I’ve developed that will prevent any undue wear and allow the engine to always operate at peak performance.

[Rougarou]

19 minutes ago, AdmiralDenny said:

Not if you understand how oil reacts to shear forces and the extreme heat created inside engines, especially motorcycle engines, and of those, especially air cooled engines without an exterior oil cooler.  Personally I’d rather spend the money and time to regularly change my fluids, and know that my engine internals will stay clean as a whistle and never even experience varnish buildup.  My R1250RT also shifts like butter, across all gears, up and down without the normal clunk going into 1st.

 

Meh, I've got a 2006rt nearing 150k that rides like new, I'm good.

[Rougarou]

4 minutes ago, AdmiralDenny said:

  I’m a System’s engineer and worked on defense programs for 30 years.  

 

Oh,.....that's why 

[dirtrider]

18 minutes ago, AdmiralDenny said:

I’ll see if I can find the testing analysis online again.  I didn’t bookmark it.  I have to disagree though.  I’m a System’s engineer and worked on defense programs for 30 years.  Being ‘in spec’ doesn’t mean the oil didn’t lose viscosity, only that the manufacturer ’believes’ the oil can still perform.  It’s your bike and up to you how you maintain it.  My choice is to continue the maintenance schedule I’ve developed that will prevent any undue wear and allow the engine to always operate at peak performance.

Morning AdmiralDenny

 

Don't bother, most of the informed riders here will just go on changing their oil same as they have been for years & years without ANY oil related issues.

 

Personally I won't even read it as a 20% loss at 1500 miles is fiction. 

 

But it's your motorcycle, your money, & your oil so change it as your see fit. 

[AdmiralDenny]

33 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Morning AdmiralDenny

 

Don't bother, most of the informed riders here will just go on changing their oil same as they have been for years & years without ANY oil related issues.

 

Personally I won't even read it as a 20% loss at 1500 miles is fiction. 

 

But it's your motorcycle, your money, & your oil so change it as your see fit. 

Sorry you can’t handle real engineering logic

[Rougarou]

1 minute ago, AdmiralDenny said:

Sorry you can’t handle real engineering logic

 

Please do a search on dirtrider on this site before jumping on your tail.

[AdmiralDenny]

3 minutes ago, AdmiralDenny said:

Sorry you can’t handle real engineering logic

This paper and findings are going g to be well above your ability to understand it, unless you’re an experience engineer, but the data is all there regarding 20% viscosity breakdown after only 1,500 miles.  So much for your ‘it’s all fiction’ logic.  
 

https://www.jstor.org/stable/44648175?read-now=1&googleloggedin=true&oauth_data=eyJlbWFpbCI6InRleGFzaG9tZTdAZ21haWwuY29tIiwiaW5zdGl0dXRpb25JZHMiOltdfQ#page_scan_tab_contents

[Rougarou]

1978, in 44 years, there has been zero improvements to automotive and oil engineering.

 

 

 

Sounds like all the old systems engineers I deal with daily,......"back in my day it was this way,........"

[TSConver]

21 minutes ago, AdmiralDenny said:

This paper and findings are going g to be well above your ability to understand it, unless you’re an experience engineer, but the data is all there regarding 20% viscosity breakdown after only 1,500 miles.  So much for your ‘it’s all fiction’ logic.  
 

https://www.jstor.org/stable/44648175?read-now=1&googleloggedin=true&oauth_data=eyJlbWFpbCI6InRleGFzaG9tZTdAZ21haWwuY29tIiwiaW5zdGl0dXRpb25JZHMiOltdfQ#page_scan_tab_contents

 

Wow 1977.  I think it has improved since then.  Any relevant data from this century?

 

I don't have any motorcycle data but I do have oil analysis from my Cummins diesel.  15w40 Rotella T6 and it is has dropped to 13.5 after 9000 miles. At 4k miles it is still 14.4 for viscosity.  I would hazard to guess a turbo charged diesel towing 10k plus lbs is going to stress the oil just a bit more than a motorcycle.  This is real data from an independent oil analysis.

 

Again any real data for modern oils?

[AdmiralDenny]

4 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

1978, in 44 years, there has been zero improvements to automotive and oil engineering.

 

 

 

Sounds like all the old systems engineers I deal with daily,......"back in my day it was this way,........"

The principles haven’t changed nor do all the friction modifiers in the world prevent viscosity breakdown.  If you were an engineer you’d already know that.  The manufacturer’s claims of “prevents viscosity breakdown” are false and all hype to get you to buy their product.  They’re able to use this false advertising because on paper, their friction modifier only slows the shear force viscosity breakdown by .000000001% which in the real world, is only measurable under an electron microscope.  Next time you change your oil, after 1,500 miles drain 4 oz into a clean container, seal it and send it off to an accredited lab for a viscosity analysis.  Report back the lab’s findings and this issue will be settled, even in your simple mind.

[Rougarou]

3 minutes ago, AdmiralDenny said:

The principles haven’t changed nor do all the friction modifiers in the world prevent viscosity breakdown.  If you were an engineer you’d already know that.  The manufacturer’s claims of “prevents viscosity breakdown” are false and all hype to get you to buy their product.  They’re able to use this false advertising because on paper, their friction modifier only slows the shear force viscosity breakdown by .000000001% which in the real world, is only measurable under an electron microscope.  Next time you change your oil, after 1,500 miles drain 4 oz into a clean container, seal it and send it off to an accredited lab for a viscosity analysis.  Report back the lab’s findings and this issue will be settled, even in your simple mind.

 

Ok boomer

[TSConver]

8 minutes ago, AdmiralDenny said:

The principles haven’t changed nor do all the friction modifiers in the world prevent viscosity breakdown.  If you were an engineer you’d already know that.  The manufacturer’s claims of “prevents viscosity breakdown” are false and all hype to get you to buy their product.  They’re able to use this false advertising because on paper, their friction modifier only slows the shear force viscosity breakdown by .000000001% which in the real world, is only measurable under an electron microscope.  Next time you change your oil, after 1,500 miles drain 4 oz into a clean container, seal it and send it off to an accredited lab for a viscosity analysis.  Report back the lab’s findings and this issue will be settled, even in your simple mind.

 

I think I just posted my real numbers from my cummins which is way harder on oil than any motorcycle.  No viscosity breakdown after 4k and only 10% loss at 9k miles.

[Rougarou]

This tone sounds really, really familiar,.........

 

https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/profile/58358-2wheelsisbest/

 

 

 

[taylor1]

33 minutes ago, AdmiralDenny said:

even in your simple mind

WOW   Coming from a Deity, you better be careful Richard  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rougarou]

30 minutes ago, taylor1 said:

WOW   Coming from a Deity, you better be careful Richard  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh ya, I'm 

[LBump]

I love oil threads!   

[AdmiralDenny]

40 minutes ago, taylor1 said:

WOW   Coming from a Deity, you better be careful Richard  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I love how an oil thread brings out the naysayers, idiots and the uneducated.  

[LBump]

15 minutes ago, AdmiralDenny said:

I love how an oil thread brings out the naysayers, idiots and the uneducated.  

 

Couldn't AGREE with you more! Particularly the 'idiot part... 

[lkraus]

3 hours ago, AdmiralDenny said:

I certainly agree that the technology has made great strides and reduced tolerances but we also have to consider that there isn’t a current oil on the market that can withstand shear forces and not lose 20% of its viscosity within the first 1,500 miles.  That testing is available online if you want to read the study.

Still have not found an online report supports your statement. Oils can temporarily lose viscosity  from shear stress, but it does rebound when the stress is removed, and I suspect the engine designers consider this when specifying an oil. Engineering logic (and common sense) tells me that if there is a permanent 20% viscosity loss in the first 1500 miles, there will be much greater loss before the recommended change interval is reached at 3000 miles (common in 1978) or at today's 6000 miles.  So virtually every vehicle on the road today is running on inadequate oil?  Where are all the engines with oil related failures? Logic is useful, but if the results don't match reality, you need re-examine the situation and see which factors are missing or erroneous.

 

A Google search of just this site (site:bmwsporttouring.com blackstone) will find several actual oil analyses showing that oil changed at the recommended intervals is still good, and often the analysts' recommendation is to extend the change interval.  That recommendation does not profit the analyst. The viscosity may have dropped a bit, but not 20%, and it is still within a suitable range. 

 

Our Camry has just turned over 225,000 miles, the first 120k on Amsoil with oil changes every 15,000 miles, the last 105k using Mobil 1 changed every 10k-12k. It runs great, uses zero oil between changes. Pretty good for regularly using oil whose "viscosity is gone ".  

 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

2 hours ago, AdmiralDenny said:

Next time you change your oil, after 1,500 miles drain 4 oz into a clean container, seal it and send it off to an accredited lab for a viscosity analysis.  Report back the lab’s findings and this issue will be settled, even in your simple mind.

 

AdmiralDenny, welcome to the board.  You've only been here for a day at this point, so you may have missed these rules on the forum list page:

 

 

Telling someone they've got a simple mind falls under the first bullet point.  Please argue your case respectfully without insulting your readers. 

 

Now that that's out of the way, I'll mention that over the years I've heard from plenty of members here who have sent their oil out for analysis, and the results show that at the change interval specified in the owner manual, the oil still has a lot of life left in it.  Like maybe another 50% or so.  You're also hearing from people in this thread who have followed (or even substantially exceeded) BMW's recommended oil change interval, and still have a healthy engine after tens (in some cases hundreds) of thousands of miles.  I'll add my own voice to that chorus: I changed the oil in my first bike ('99 R1100RT) at 6K mile intervals per the manual, and the engine was the healthiest part of the bike when I sold it at 135K miles.  

 

What are we to make of all these folks who are changing their oil at intervals of 6000 miles or more, and still have a healthy engine after many such intervals?  Are they just lucky?  Are they lying liars who tell lies? 

[wbw6cos]

[Skywagon]

Roug shaking in his boots… now that would be something to see cuz I’m going to bet that isn’t going to happen… well maybe if the wife points that Gatling Nail Gun at him… nah won’t happen. 

[MikeB60]

Oil analysis from my 2011 camhead with Rotella 5W 40 synthetic. Viscosity for new oil is 15.2 after 6000 mile it dropped to 14.45. Down 5 percent.

[Rougarou]

19 minutes ago, MikeB60 said:

Oil analysis from my 2011 camhead with Rotella 5W 40 synthetic. Viscosity for new oil is 15.2 after 6000 mile it dropped to 14.45. Down 5 percent.

 

Bruh,....I can use PDF Pro too  It can't be because it goes against the principles, shear force and extreme heat,.....fake news you got there.

[MichiganBob]

Interesting thread in a lot of ways. Thanks Mitch for reiterating the rules we live by on this fine forum. It's important to establish that civility and respect is valued and expected, especially in these hotly divided times. Fortunately, those who struggle with civility and respectful discourse have plenty of other forums to turn to exchange their opinions.

[LBump]

Sure hope Bob_1978 got the information and advice he was looking for.  There are several postings that give good and viable information. 

 

Thank you Mitch for chiming in about the rules of proper forum etiquette and being polite.

 

Not beat a dead horse... but I feel we've been duped. 

Just to get a rise out of some BMW owners, why not post to an oil thread and stir up the pot?

Was it BS on not?  

[George S.]

There is no rationale to go against what the vehicle manufacturer recommends. If he says 6,000 then believe him. Of course, short trips, towing, temperature, time, etc changes things but that’s also covered in their owners manuals and recommendations. 
 

It’s not just enough to use terms like it’s  a “modern oil” or a “modern vehicle”.  The manufacturer knows the distinct metallurgy of the engines. 
 

Manufacturers don’t lie and say 6,000 if that’s not safe to do. They have a vested interest in not receiving broken engines under warranty. Nor do they want your engine to break prematurely out of warranty.  That doesn’t bode well for you to choose their brand in a future purchase. Believe their recommendations. 

[George S.]

On 11/3/2022 at 5:36 PM, LBump said:

 

Not beat a dead horse... but I feel we've been duped. 

Just to get a rise out of some BMW owners, why not post to an oil thread and stir up the pot?

Was it BS on not?  

Joined Wednesday. 

[Hosstage]

I do like to change oil very early the first couple times on new motors, I figure it can't hurt to get any possible machining swarf out of the motor early on. After that, normal intervals.

[Hosstage]

4 hours ago, George S. said:

Joined Wednesday. 

I noticed that right away too. Just like the link Rougs posted of the other troll that joined and immediately started in being a dick and then just disappeared (or got banned).

[dirtrider]

17 hours ago, George S. said:

There is no rationale to go against what the vehicle manufacturer recommends. If he says 6,000 then believe him. Of course, short trips, towing, temperature, time, etc changes things but that’s also covered in their owners manuals and recommendations. 
 

It’s not just enough to use terms like it’s  a “modern oil” or a “modern vehicle”.  The manufacturer knows the distinct metallurgy of the engines. 
 

Manufacturers don’t lie and say 6,000 if that’s not safe to do. They have a vested interest in not receiving broken engines under warranty. Nor do they want your engine to break prematurely out of warranty.  That doesn’t bode well for you to choose their brand in a future purchase. Believe their recommendations. 

Morning George

 

The manufactures don't always get it right (at least at first).

 

You just need to look back not that many years ago when there were a number of direct injection vehicles already sold & out on the road using the MoCo's  recommended motor oil.  Then a number of engines started suffering early & severe piston damage. 

 

It took a while to define & find a cure but that damage was tracked back to a previously unknown phenonium called  LSPI (Low Speed Pre-Ignition). Why it didn't show up in pre-release durability testing is a mystery but it did show up in post-sale customer vehicles.

 

It took a new design motor oil to stop it as the very/very/very small (normal) amount of originally-recommended motor oil (above the top piston ring) was mixing with the high pressure fuel & causing a basic (pre-spark) combustion-ignition (very detrimental to piston life). 

 

A number of warranty repairs, a great number of free oil changes to vehicle owners then all was good but they definitely didn't get it right to begin with.  

 

But now we have a motor oil that is pretty immune to LSPI as long as the vehicle owners use the correct specification motor oil.  

 

 

[Hosstage]

Of course manufacturers know what they're doing and no harm could come to using their recommended oil service intervals and products. I mean they've never had issues with any other aspect of design and operation, like final drive failures or clutch cylinders failing under normal recommended use and service.........