Support your right to repair in Congress

[TSConver]

36 minutes ago, Ponch said:

And more folks are killed by drunk drivers than unjustified homicide with firearms. 

 

Take suicides and accidental shootings out and it is not even close.  Yet there is nothing being done to ban assault cars.

 

Probably about to get this moved to a different forum, so I am done in this one, 

[chrisolson]

57 minutes ago, RTinNC said:

Maybe I read it wrong but is sounds like they are concerned with misusing the technology i.e. hacking and then manipulating the vehicle in a malicious manner.  

 

I read it the same way .... its a definite conundrum ... can't repair without data access, but same access could give a "malicious actor" a means to "remotely command vehicles to operate dangerously"

 

 

edit:  the question is how likely is the malicious actor scenario ?

[Ponch]

51 minutes ago, TSConver said:

 

Take suicides and accidental shootings out and it is not even close.  Yet there is nothing being done to ban assault cars.

 

Probably about to get this moved to a different forum, so I am done in this one, 

 

Well, I understand they are developing AI tech to detect drunk driving(without a breathalyzer). What it would do after that, IDK. There's already EDRs in vehicles and some will save more data than just an event.  Now, if they would make driving in the left lane without passing and blocking the flow of traffic a capital offense, I could get behind that. 

[RadioFlyer]

I think that manufacturers are mostly inventing/overstating the threat as a means to boost their agenda to monopolize servicing their products. 

[Lowndes]

2 hours ago, RadioFlyer said:

I think that manufacturers are mostly inventing/overstating the threat as a means to boost their agenda to monopolize servicing their products. 

Naaaaw, NO WAY!!   What'$ the incentive for manufacturer'$ to do $omething like that, may I a$K??  $urely they wouldn't do $omething $o cra$$ a$ that.

 

I'm $ure the German$ and other$ are praying for another warm winter coming up.  Without the Nord $tream pipeline they are between a rock and a frozen $pot.

 

 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

19 hours ago, RTinNC said:

Maybe I read it wrong but is sounds like they are concerned with misusing the technology i.e. hacking and then manipulating the vehicle in a malicious manner.   Yet another "feature" of all the technology we seem to need these days in our vehicles.  While Technology can be very good and beneficial it can be a negative as well. 

 

I think this incident from 8 years ago opened a lot of people's attention:

 

https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-highway/

 

TL,DR: a 2015 demonstration showed that white-hat hackers were able to remotely hack into a Jeep Cherokee while it was being driven, and take pretty much complete control over it:

Quote

As the two hackers remotely toyed with the air-conditioning, radio, and windshield wipers, I mentally congratulated myself on my courage under pressure. That's when they cut the transmission.

 

Immediately my accelerator stopped working. As I frantically pressed the pedal and watched the RPMs climb, the Jeep lost half its speed, then slowed to a crawl. This occurred just as I reached a long overpass, with no shoulder to offer an escape. The experiment had ceased to be fun.

 

At that point, the interstate began to slope upward, so the Jeep lost more momentum and barely crept forward. Cars lined up behind my bumper before passing me, honking. I could see an 18-wheeler approaching in my rearview mirror. I hoped its driver saw me, too, and could tell I was paralyzed on the highway.

 

"You're doomed!" Valasek shouted, but I couldn't make out his heckling over the blast of the radio, now pumping Kanye West. The semi loomed in the mirror, bearing down on my immobilized Jeep.

 

I followed Miller's advice: I didn't panic. I did, however, drop any semblance of bravery, grab my iPhone with a clammy fist, and beg the hackers to make it stop.

 

That demonstration was possible because the manufacturer was sloppy with vehicle cybersecurity.  It apparently never occurred to them that connecting the car's internet-enabled entertainment system to the same communications network that controls all the other devices in the car (windshield wipers, HVAC, brakes, steering, engine) would pose a security risk.  But even if they fix that, knowing how sloppy the general public is with cybersecurity, allowing remote telematics access with the ability to send commands could have major public safety implications.  Imagine a hacker issuing a command to every car on a five-mile stretch of Chicago highway to suddenly turn left and pin the throttle wide-open while simultaneously disabling the brakes.  Or even just one car, which could take out a dozen others all by itself.  

 

Direct/wired access, e.g. through a dashboard socket, should still allow owners to service their vehicles, but would eliminate the sorts of risks described above.

 

[RTinNC]

WOW ..  had not seen that but not at all surprised !!    Want more technology be careful what you ask for. 

[dirtrider]

21 minutes ago, Joe Frickin' Friday said:

 

I think this incident from 8 years ago opened a lot of people's attention:

 

https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-highway/

 

TL,DR: a 2015 demonstration showed that white-hat hackers were able to remotely hack into a Jeep Cherokee while it was being driven, and take pretty much complete control over it:

 

That demonstration was possible because the manufacturer was sloppy with vehicle cybersecurity.  It apparently never occurred to them that connecting the car's internet-enabled entertainment system to the same communications network that controls all the other devices in the car (windshield wipers, HVAC, brakes, steering, engine) would pose a security risk.  But even if they fix that, knowing how sloppy the general public is with cybersecurity, allowing remote telematics access with the ability to send commands could have major public safety implications.  Imagine a hacker issuing a command to every car on a five-mile stretch of Chicago highway to suddenly turn left and pin the throttle wide-open while simultaneously disabling the brakes.  Or even just one car, which could take out a dozen others all by itself.  

 

Direct/wired access, e.g. through a dashboard socket, should still allow owners to service their vehicles, but would eliminate the sorts of risks described above.

 

Morning Mitch

 

Direct/wired access, e.g. through a dashboard socket, should still allow owners to service their vehicles, but would eliminate the sorts of risks described above.

 

It would eliminate that particular threat but could still allow inadvertent (or even intentional) modifications to things like auto-braking, lane assist, ABS read-ahead, electronic steering assist, emission systems, transmission shift schedules, etc. 

 

I can kind of predict that if all these right-to-repair laws go into unrestricted effect we will see things like electronic seals on vehicles electronics that set all kinds or red flags in the system and/or send them back to the motor companies to give the motor companies some sort of legal protection on warranty liabilities & against law suits involving vehicles that have had their electronics accessed by non-trained people.  

 

Would you fly on an airplane that flight attendants or a passenger could access & modify the flight control systems? 

 

 

[Rougarou]

On 7/6/2023 at 9:02 AM, dirtrider said:

 

 

Would you fly on an airplane that flight attendants or a passenger could access & modify the flight control systems? 

 

 

 

It has been done

 

https://phys.org/news/2015-05-expert-accessed-plane-mid-flight.html

 

If it's computer/software based, its hackable.  No such thing as 100% secure, there's only the appearance of 100% secure.

[RadioFlyer]

ZERO Motorcycles just announced they it will provide FREE service manuals for its bikes.

 

A service manual isn't of much use to a hacker so IMHO this is a red herring.

 

Hackers will obtain a vehicle and eavesdrop on the bus(es) to learn what codes are exchanged for the various functions then tap into the target vehicle to inject the codes for whatever they are wanting to accomplish.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

7 hours ago, Rougarou said:

It has been done

 

https://phys.org/news/2015-05-expert-accessed-plane-mid-flight.html

 

If it's computer/software based, its hackable.  No such thing as 100% secure, there's only the appearance of 100% secure.

 

Never say never, I guess, but Roberts' claims stretch credulity:

 

https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2015/05/boeing-ife-experts-hit-back-at-hacker-claims-in-fbi-report/

 

Quote

But when reading the FBI search warrant application for Roberts, it’s important to consider that IFE systems on commercial airplanes “are isolated from flight and navigation systems”, Boeing said in a statement after myriad news titles reported the FBI claims as fact.

 

“While these systems receive position data and have communication links, the design isolates them from the other systems on airplanes performing critical and essential functions.”

 

Panasonic has likewise pushed back on claims by someone else that their systems were vulnerable:

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3152784/panasonic-angrily-refutes-report-about-hacking-its-airplane-entertainment-systems.html

 

I'll say it's highly unlikely that a passenger could gain control of a commercial aircraft by hacking into the IFE system.  OTOH, they could hack the IFE system and feed panic-inducing speed/altitude/direction information to the flight map seen by passengers.  

[RadioFlyer]

https://thehill.com/opinion/congress-blog/4110148-repair-act-will-guarantee-the-right-to-safe-affordable-and-accessible-vehicle-repair/

 

Good to see REP. NEAL DUNN (R-FLA.) supporting his Right to Repair legislation and calling out the meaningless appeasement MOU proffered by those who oppose it.

 

Also good to see the specific mention of support from the AMA and "motorcycle enthusiasts across America" (too bad the BMW MOA isn't amongst the supporters).

 

Support the Right to Repair.