Catless OEM muffler?

[JamesW]

9 hours ago, gertler said:

I know this is an old post now but just in case anyone is still listening...

I really appreciate all the information on here and am so glad for JamesW's extensive analysis! Again, if anyone is still listening, I have a 2000 R1100R and am thinking of getting the Dominator but was curious about this ECU/CCP thing and if it is the same for my R1100R. I'm confused about either cutting a wire or pulling something in the fuse box. If anyone knows a little about this I'd appreciate it if you could steer me straight. Also don't want to lower MPG so was curious what the difference is between eliminating the O2 sensor or not eliminating it with the dominator exhaust.

 

You have a 2000 R1100R whereas mine is a 1993 R1100RSL so I would bet you have a code plug located in your fuse/relay box under the seat so all you do is remove it.  However there have been many mods made to Your ECU and I have no clue what would be the result were you to remove  the code plug.   Maybe Dirt Rider will read this and offer guidance.

[King Herald]

14 hours ago, gertler said:

I know this is an old post now but just in case anyone is still listening...

I really appreciate all the information on here and am so glad for JamesW's extensive analysis! Again, if anyone is still listening, I have a 2000 R1100R and am thinking of getting the Dominator but was curious about this ECU/CCP thing and if it is the same for my R1100R. I'm confused about either cutting a wire or pulling something in the fuse box. If anyone knows a little about this I'd appreciate it if you could steer me straight. Also don't want to lower MPG so was curious what the difference is between eliminating the O2 sensor or not eliminating it with the dominator exhaust.

You can just put the Dominator on and see how she runs. There’s a hole in the link pipe to fit the O2 sensor, so you don’t really need to change anything.
 

[dirtrider]

15 hours ago, gertler said:

I know this is an old post now but just in case anyone is still listening...

I really appreciate all the information on here and am so glad for JamesW's extensive analysis! Again, if anyone is still listening, I have a 2000 R1100R and am thinking of getting the Dominator but was curious about this ECU/CCP thing and if it is the same for my R1100R. I'm confused about either cutting a wire or pulling something in the fuse box. If anyone knows a little about this I'd appreciate it if you could steer me straight. Also don't want to lower MPG so was curious what the difference is between eliminating the O2 sensor or not eliminating it with the dominator exhaust.

Morning gertler

 

I can't comment on the dominator exhaust as personally I am not fond of the louder/raspier  exhaust note on the BMW 2 cylinder boxer. The BMW boxer has a 360° firing order that causes a flat & rather obnoxious exhaust note (at least to my ears).

 

On your 2000R, there is no wire to cut, you can just remove the CCP from your fuse box. 

 

Removing the CCP will make your Moronic 2.2 (fueling computer) not look for, and not use the o2 sensor. 

 

Removing the CCP will usually richen the idle fueling, slightly richen the just above idle fueling. It will effect the fuel mileage a little. It will effect it more if you do a lot of city riding with idling at stop lights and/or a lot of light throttle riding. 

 

At normal back road speeds of 50-70 it usually won't effect the fuel milage very much. 

 

There are some work-arounds on the fuel mileage thing,  once the CCP is removed (or a non-cat CCP is installed), you can add an Idle Trim Pot to allow you to trim the idle fuel mixture to a leaner setting. This kind of nullifies the better light throttle low speed running & surge reduction that just removing the CCP gives you but it does help bring the light throttle & idle fuel economy back.

 

Just remove the CCP from your fuse box (picture below) then ride it for a couple of tanks of fuel. That will probably also raise the idle RPM a little. If you notice a big drop in fuel economy then you can put it back at any time. 

 

As King Herald said, the dominator exhaust should have a bung hole in it that you can screw your o2 sensor into then keep using the stock o2 sensor if you want to go that way.

 

Sometimes an aftermarket (more open) exhaust will make the light throttle surging worse if the o2 sensor is still used. Not always but in a lot of cases it will make light throttle surging more noticeable.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Skywagon]

3 hours ago, dirtrider said:

personally I am not fond of the louder/raspier  exhaust note

On any bike… I like me’s quite. 

[dirtrider]

27 minutes ago, Skywagon said:

On any bike… I like me’s quite. 

Morning David

 

With me it depends, on the BMW 360° firing boxers the firing pulses are too even & sound like farting underwater. Open type exhaust just makes the boxer loud not pleasant. 

 

A loud guitar played by a great musician sounds good, a loud guitar played by a hack musician sounds like loud crap.

 

On my Ducati I have Termignoni exhaust & while it is loud when revved or under full power it is a pleasant loud not a raspy loud. The Ducati firing pulses are a thing to behold & unlike children should be heard (well except when LEO's are around). Even then, I have been stopped a number of times & speed (or speed + Ducati Red) seems to be the underlier as never a mention of too loud. 

 

 

 

[EdM]

I am curious if anyone else out there has an early 1100 without an O2 sensor at all. My 94 R1100RS which was built in late 93 for Canada never had an O2 sensor from factory, no bung in the exhaust for one, no wire lead, nothing. I would guess there was no cat in the exhaust either. I replaced the original muffle a long time back when some of the baffles came loose inside and it sounded like a can of rocks being shaken. I put a Remus muffler and resonator mid pipe on it which it still has today. 

[dirtrider]

24 minutes ago, EdM said:

I am curious if anyone else out there has an early 1100 without an O2 sensor at all. My 94 R1100RS which was built in late 93 for Canada never had an O2 sensor from factory, no bung in the exhaust for one, no wire lead, nothing. I would guess there was no cat in the exhaust either. I replaced the original muffle a long time back when some of the baffles came loose inside and it sounded like a can of rocks being shaken. I put a Remus muffler and resonator mid pipe on it which it still has today. 

Moring EdM

 

I have heard of that but never actually had or worked on one. 

 

Back then all new BMW motorcycles  being imported into the USA were imported as California compliant as BMW didn't want to have separate bikes that could only be sold in certain states or areas. So the (BMW direct) USA imports all had o2 sensors & cats.

 

Some gray market BMW 1100 bikes made it into the USA without cats & o2 sensors (especially through G.I.s bringing them home when returning from European duty). Or otherwise somehow skirting the import emission compliance requirement.

 

Canada didn't require cats on most motorcycles back then so with no cat required then o2 sensor needed.    In my area most Canadian BMW's had cats & o2 sensors. Possibly Canada had different emission districts that effected what could be imported to different areas. 

 

I have also heard of some early BMW 1100 bikes coming with no CCP so, unless dealer removed, those bikes probably didn't have an active cat or functioning o2 sensor. 

 

Put the last 7 digits of your VIN into Shop.Maxbmw parts then see what they list for an exhaust or o2 sensor. 

[King Herald]

18 hours ago, EdM said:

I am curious if anyone else out there has an early 1100 without an O2 sensor at all. My 94 R1100RS which was built in late 93 for Canada never had an O2 sensor from factory, no bung in the exhaust for one, no wire lead, nothing. I would guess there was no cat in the exhaust either. I replaced the original muffle a long time back when some of the baffles came loose inside and it sounded like a can of rocks being shaken. I put a Remus muffler and resonator mid pipe on it which it still has today. 

I’m in the UK, my ‘97 1100r has no cat, and no O2 sensor. It opens a whole new can of worms because I’ve also heard the Motronic is programmed differently internally to those in the US. I’ve detailed my shenanigans playing with CCP etc on here, and DR has explained much about how the whole system works to me. 
 

I fitted a Dominator about six years ago, mainly so I could fit boxes to my bike and keep them  as narrow as possible. However, last year I grew fed up of the continuous loud droning of the exhaust on any lengthy ride so I put the stock pipe back on.
 

Its only just occurred to me, reading this thread again, that my Dominator might need repacking, after 6 years and 50,000+ miles. 

[gertler]

Thanks to all who responded here. Great to see everyone still active on such an old post!

I did as suggested and just pulled that pink CCP thing out and was amazed at the difference on start up and a short dart down the road! It started a little quicker and didn't have to use the "choke" thingy. And I noticed a considerable difference in the way it ran. It was maybe seemed to rev easier after 2000rpm and onward. Not as sluggish feeling and although prior to this my bike had far less surging than another R1100 I had years ago it nonetheless was way smoother! So greatly appreciate it! And extra shout out to dirtrider for the picture and clear instructions.

Now that I see king herald mention he's getting rid of his Dominator I'm having second thoughts. I agree the rhythm of the engine is quite boring. I too have a Ducati ST3 with the better factory cans and just love the way it sounds. But I was kind of impressed with the R tNine when it came out and, at least in videos I've watched, it seemed to have a fairly decent sound. I guess I'm more in the group where taking the stock can off will at least save me 30lbs. I could always throw several DB killers at it till it's quieter.

Not sure if anyone has seen where the rich mixture after pulling the CCP can be leaned out a bit with an aftermarket can and K&N type filter?

[dirtrider]

7 hours ago, gertler said:

Thanks to all who responded here. Great to see everyone still active on such an old post!

I did as suggested and just pulled that pink CCP thing out and was amazed at the difference on start up and a short dart down the road! It started a little quicker and didn't have to use the "choke" thingy. And I noticed a considerable difference in the way it ran. It was maybe seemed to rev easier after 2000rpm and onward. Not as sluggish feeling and although prior to this my bike had far less surging than another R1100 I had years ago it nonetheless was way smoother! So greatly appreciate it! And extra shout out to dirtrider for the picture and clear instructions.

Now that I see king herald mention he's getting rid of his Dominator I'm having second thoughts. I agree the rhythm of the engine is quite boring. I too have a Ducati ST3 with the better factory cans and just love the way it sounds. But I was kind of impressed with the R tNine when it came out and, at least in videos I've watched, it seemed to have a fairly decent sound. I guess I'm more in the group where taking the stock can off will at least save me 30lbs. I could always throw several DB killers at it till it's quieter.

Not sure if anyone has seen where the rich mixture after pulling the CCP can be leaned out a bit with an aftermarket can and K&N type filter?

Morning  gertler

 

Not sure if anyone has seen where the rich mixture after pulling the CCP can be leaned out a bit with an aftermarket can and K&N type filter?

 

The K&N won't do anything for the fueling until it gets dirty & plugged.

 

Most aftermarket mufflers are more open and with no cat, so those can actually make it run worse in some lighter throttle conditions due to exhaust reversion.  

 

With no CCP in place (no active o2 sensor) if you want to lean it out a little at idle & just above idle just install (or make) an idle trim pot (Idle Control Valve).

In open loop operation (no operational CCP) the fueling computer can be trimmed a little at idle & light throttle using the idle trim pot (Idle Control Valve).

 

The (Idle Control Valve) is just a trim type resistor that has an adjustment screw to change the idle & light throttle fueling for older  European idle emission compliance. 

 

Your 1100 should already have the wire pigtail with connector to attach the Idle Control Valve.

 

 

[gertler]

Yeah, that should make it easier! I didn't know it was already wired for it. I'll look for one. Hey, really appreciate the info!

[JamesW]

I enjoy my dominator muffler with maximum silencer installed especially at idle.  With the CCP jumper cut fueling at idle is a touch richer  which results in a very smooth idle then with idle speed set to about 800 RPM I could listen to it all day which unfortunately would result in a very crispy well done as in smoked oilhead.   Nice for a few minutes though.

[EdM]

On 3/25/2024 at 9:37 AM, dirtrider said:

Moring EdM

 

I have heard of that but never actually had or worked on one. 

 

Back then all new BMW motorcycles  being imported into the USA were imported as California compliant as BMW didn't want to have separate bikes that could only be sold in certain states or areas. So the (BMW direct) USA imports all had o2 sensors & cats.

 

Some gray market BMW 1100 bikes made it into the USA without cats & o2 sensors (especially through G.I.s bringing them home when returning from European duty). Or otherwise somehow skirting the import emission compliance requirement.

 

Canada didn't require cats on most motorcycles back then so with no cat required then o2 sensor needed.    In my area most Canadian BMW's had cats & o2 sensors. Possibly Canada had different emission districts that effected what could be imported to different areas. 

 

I have also heard of some early BMW 1100 bikes coming with no CCP so, unless dealer removed, those bikes probably didn't have an active cat or functioning o2 sensor. 

 

Put the last 7 digits of your VIN into Shop.Maxbmw parts then see what they list for an exhaust or o2 sensor. 

 

When I input the VIN into Max's site, it shows the bike as an ECE version so that would explain the lack of O2 sensor and cat. I don't know what the standard was for Canadian bikes at that time though. I do know this was one of the earliest RSs to arrive here and was built in 9/93. It was the dealers show model and was first purchased by a friend of mine. I bought it in 97 from him and since then have been the only person to have worked on it so I am well familiar with the bike and know it's full history.