r1100rs- anyone know the size of the female brake fitting Line

[Bill Cats]

1994 BMW 1100 RSL -

I blew  the rear brake line today, the line from the rear caliper to the metal hose hook up right behind the rear brake peddle -

 

It has a 10mm  banjo fitting at a 45 degree on one line and the other side is a female fitting that the metal line screws into, 

In the past i got generic 10mm to 10mm banjo lines without any issues BUT i do not know the thread size on this fitting,,????  

I see lines specified as 10mm banjo to 3/4 inch female.....     ( is that it .... or ....? ) 

 

Thanks so much

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Bill Cats

[dirtrider]

10 hours ago, Bill Cats said:

1994 BMW 1100 RSL -

I blew  the rear brake line today, the line from the rear caliper to the metal hose hook up right behind the rear brake peddle -

 

It has a 10mm  banjo fitting at a 45 degree on one line and the other side is a female fitting that the metal line screws into, 

In the past i got generic 10mm to 10mm banjo lines without any issues BUT i do not know the thread size on this fitting,,????  

I see lines specified as 10mm banjo to 3/4 inch female.....     ( is that it .... or ....? ) 

 

Thanks so much

 

Morning Bill 

 

It's a German motorcycle built with metric parts so 3/4" anything doesn't sound correct. 

 

You have your old hose so just measure the fitting size & thread pitch. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bill Cats]

After doing the research it's a 

AN-3 female connector with a M-10 female with a 1.0 pitch thread

 

[Bill Cats]

Hey , just wanted to check back in with you and let you know i DID end up needing  - 

3265-18

Female 10 x 1.0mm Metric Concave Seat to 3AN Male, Steel

2

7.29

14.58

 

I only needed one BUT got 2 JUST because i have another line i want to cut over to standard AN-3 

Thanks for your help and when it arrives ill keep u posted :)))

Safe riding

 

[Lowndes]

Bill Cats - have your other brake lines been replaced already??

[Bill Cats]

hey

line from front brake resivor to frame, - 10mm banjo both ends 

lines from both front brake calipers to block on frame - banjo type 10mm both ends 

 - now back brake caliper to metal line 

 - i BELIEVE there is on more in there somewhere up front that hasn't broke yet lol 

 

[Bill Cats]

Do you happen to know where a post on how to bleed the entire brake system in ( 1994 RSL 1100 )

[dirtrider]

11 hours ago, Bill Cats said:

Do you happen to know where a post on how to bleed the entire brake system in ( 1994 RSL 1100 )

Morning Bill 

 

Does your 1100RSL have ABS (or still have ABS?).

 

That can make a difference in how you initially bleed it. 

 

There are a few ways to bleed your brake system, if it is NOW totally dry then you can speed up the bleeding process by using a large syringe (or even a CLEAN turkey baster) to force fluid into the caliper bleeders then back up through the system  into the empty master cylinder reservoirs.  (this is basically how the factory initially did it).  This method makes the bleeding go easier, faster & usually easier on the master cylinder pistons during final bleeding.

 

Or you can just start by filling the master cylinder reservoirs with brake fluid, THEN, very lightly working the brake lever or brake pedal (just a few millimeters of travel). Keep working the lever or pedal in very short strokes until the air bubbles quit bubbling up in the reservoir (this will fill & basically bench-bleed the master cylinders). Don't allow the reservoirs to go dry during this process.

 

This initial bench bleeding  will give the master cylinders enough airless fluid output to force fluid through the rest of the hydraulic system with full lever or pedal travel. It will even force the fluid up & through the ABS system if you use full quick lever or pedal strokes. 

 

The downside to using this method is you are forcing the master cylinder pistons to run in a place in the master cylinder bores that might have crud built up so it could possibly damage the piston cups if they have to travel across that age old crud buildup.

 

You also have the option to use a vacuum source (like a hand vacuum pump, or something  like a MyTyVac ) to draw the brake fluid through the system for first fill.  

 

Once you get enough fluid in the system to allow conventional bleeding then you are usually home free.

 

Without a helper I usually use about 3' of clear hose that fits tight on the bleed screw then terminate that in an old water bottle or container. I put just enough brake fluid in that container so the hose ends up below the fluid level (that way I can leave the bleed screw open  while pumping the lever or pedal as the hose end below the fluid level acts like an active check valve). Once that system circuit is basically bled I then move the bottle up so the bottle is above the caliper bleed screw level as that prevents all those little evenly space air bubbles showing in the clear bleed hose.

 

If you have an ABS  system  then once the front & rear systems are bled then go up on the ABS module & bleed the ABS bleed screws to get that last little bit of air out of the top dome of the  ABS  module. 

 

Important: On a dry system the first thing that needs to be done (if bleeding from the top down) is to bench bleed the master cylinders (can be done on the motorcycle) as that removes the air from the master cylinder bores) -- If this isn't done first then it will be a fight to get it bled & very difficult to have the master cylinder force enough fluid through the ABS system on each lever or pedal stroke.

 

If filled from the bottom up (caliper bleed screws up)  that pretty well uses the fluid column to force the air in the lines & hoses UP in front of the fluid column & air likes to naturally move up on, or in, the fluid as air is lighter than brake  fluid so that makes it easier to do the final bleed process.

 

When all done if you are not happy with the lever or pedal travel or feel (still feels like air in the system)  then use a zip tie (lever)  to tie the lever in the applied position, or hang a weight on the rear-brake-pedal overnight as that will in some cases cause small air bubbles in the system to combine & form one large air bubble, then that larger air bubble can more easily work it's way up into the reservoir & out of the fluid at next brake apply/release. 

 

 

 

[Bill Cats]

Awesome )))

Thank you very much ! Just got a vacume bleed tool from harbor freight,,, I'm on it

 

[dirtrider]

12 hours ago, Bill Cats said:

Awesome )))

Thank you very much ! Just got a vacume bleed tool from harbor freight,,, I'm on it

 

Evening Bill 

 

It works best if you can suck the fluid in from the calipers to the master cylinders but that is kind of difficult if you don't have a way to make a vacuum tight seal to the master cylinder reservoirs  with a vacuum fitting on it.

 

Just be careful to not suck any brake fluid into you hand vacuum pump or next time you go to use it it probably won't function.  

[Bill Cats]

Yes sir )) it seems to have a in line reservoir to let the fluid fall into ,,, I'll take my time 

[Bill Cats]

ok sir...

I got all the air out and all the flexible lines replaced ( Except one,,, the one from the frame to the T under the front fender ) its good but i ordered a new one anyway  :))   

 

Now im back to the original issue i have had since i bought the bike - 1994 R1100RSL - only 2 bleeders i can see on the ABS -

 

- brakes work fine BUT

- when first turn key on BOTH abs lights flash at the same time -

- i wait several seconds ( while not touching any brake levers , peddles - )

- i start to roll and they start to alternate flasf , top, then bottom ,,, this continues and never stops

 

- corrective measures 

 - replaced brake pads up front - they were very low - 

- replaced all lines except the one i told you about - 

- bleed all brake circuits - 

- removed both ABS sensors and cleaned the magnets and reassembles the same way it came out - 

 

    The PO told me that " it always does it and if i stop after the bike warms up and turn off, wait a few seconds and restart with the same good procedure it will clear )) - he said he "" thinks its the battery " because he put a really expensive battery in there,,,,, i have no clue what he is talking about :)))

          ironically about one out of 5 times that will work ,,, and i can drive for hours without any errors - 

 

 

----- no change -- 

 

[dirtrider]

10 hours ago, Bill Cats said:

ok sir...

I got all the air out and all the flexible lines replaced ( Except one,,, the one from the frame to the T under the front fender ) its good but i ordered a new one anyway  :))   

 

Now im back to the original issue i have had since i bought the bike - 1994 R1100RSL - only 2 bleeders i can see on the ABS -

 

- brakes work fine BUT

- when first turn key on BOTH abs lights flash at the same time -

- i wait several seconds ( while not touching any brake levers , peddles - )

- i start to roll and they start to alternate flasf , top, then bottom ,,, this continues and never stops

 

- corrective measures 

 - replaced brake pads up front - they were very low - 

- replaced all lines except the one i told you about - 

- bleed all brake circuits - 

- removed both ABS sensors and cleaned the magnets and reassembles the same way it came out - 

 

    The PO told me that " it always does it and if i stop after the bike warms up and turn off, wait a few seconds and restart with the same good procedure it will clear )) - he said he "" thinks its the battery " because he put a really expensive battery in there,,,,, i have no clue what he is talking about :)))

          ironically about one out of 5 times that will work ,,, and i can drive for hours without any errors - 

 

----- no change -- 

 

Morning Bill

 

That doesn't exactly sound like a battery issues as it doesn't go into fault right at engine cranking.

 

According to this-- " I start to roll and they start to alternate flash , top, then bottom ,,, this continues and never stops ".

 

That usually point to a wheel speed sensor or wheel speed sensor gap.

 

Have you checked or verified your wheel speed sensor air gaps? If not start with that. Also check for loose front wheel bearings or a loose rear final drive crown bearing. (gauges should be in your motorcycle tool kit & directions should be in you riders manual)

 

If the speed sensor gaps are OK then you might have to try reading the ABS trapped failure codes. 

 

-(Reading ABS 2 controller stored fault codes)-

 

“Make sure battery voltage is at or above 12 volts, with key on”

 

1)- First- place analog voltmeter between pin #2 of ABS diagnostic connector & ground.. (don’t use a digital voltmeter as most won’t respond quick enough to show stored codes correctly)., Another way is to use an LED & resistor (or 12v LED) in place of the voltmeter.

 

2)- Then- turn ignition switch on.

 

3)- Voltmeter should indicate (close to) a steady 11volts, (IF) no fault codes are stored.

 

4)- If it has stored fault code(s) in the ABS controller it should show as voltage swings or drops. To find ABS code or codes just count the voltmeter needle swings towards zero volts.

 

If you have multiple stored codes it will show them in order with a short pause between each code then start over & go through them again.

 

-(Here are the ABS 2 fault codes)-

 

1)- front pressure modulator.

2)- rear pressure modulator.

3)- front sensor.

4)- rear sensor.

5)- battery voltage low.

6)- ABS relay.

7)- ABS control unit.

8)- sensor gap front or rear.

 

Note: not all ABS failures are trapped & stored as a failure code.

 

[Bill Cats]

Thank you very much for the quick response, I do not have a writer's manual, so do you have a process for checking the air gap on the ABS sensors?

 

[dirtrider]

28 minutes ago, Bill Cats said:

Thank you very much for the quick response, I do not have a writer's manual, so do you have a process for checking the air gap on the ABS sensors?

 

Morning Bill 

 

Did you get the little OEM tool kit with your motorcycle? If so the should be some little feeler gauges in that tool kit. 

 

If not then just use some feeler gauge stock to measure the air gap between the wheel speed sensors & the tone rings. (should be between  0.45 mm to 0.55 mm). You adjust the air gap using special spacers (you can make them or buy from BMW) just make sure they won't rust. 

 

Those wheel speed sensor spacers even show up on E-Bay occasionally. Front & rear are different. 

[Bill Cats]

ok ok Mister Dirt Rider,,

I lied,,,
Upon closer observation i see that the in sync ( self test ) flash STOPS exactly when i start the bike - 

 

-- walk up to bike and check the voltage directly at the Odyssey battery,, 12.7VDC

- turn key switch on -   in sync ( self test ) starts - this will stay flashing as self test as long as i pause here  -

- then start bike  - and ABS goes directly into error mode - ( alternating flash top and bottom - 

 

Then if i put the battery tender on the bike and start it it will NOT go into error mode - 

 

- so to avoid error i can ;

- plug battery into charger - 

- start bike - 

- ABS does NOT go into error mode - stays in self test - 

- then unplug charger - 

- drive away and the ABS will not error and i can drive it without an error until next start - 

- IF im out somewhere and cant plug the charger in it will do it yet again,,,

 

Question - 

- isn't 12.7 VDC plenty ...?

- what would you recommend ......??

 

 

 

 

[TSConver]

The battery could be bad even if fully charged. What does the voltage drop to when cranking it?

[dirtrider]

3 hours ago, Bill Cats said:

ok ok Mister Dirt Rider,,

I lied,,,
Upon closer observation i see that the in sync ( self test ) flash STOPS exactly when i start the bike - 

 

-- walk up to bike and check the voltage directly at the Odyssey battery,, 12.7VDC

- turn key switch on -   in sync ( self test ) starts - this will stay flashing as self test as long as i pause here  -

- then start bike  - and ABS goes directly into error mode - ( alternating flash top and bottom - 

 

Then if i put the battery tender on the bike and start it it will NOT go into error mode - 

 

- so to avoid error i can ;

- plug battery into charger - 

- start bike - 

- ABS does NOT go into error mode - stays in self test - 

- then unplug charger - 

- drive away and the ABS will not error and i can drive it without an error until next start - 

- IF im out somewhere and cant plug the charger in it will do it yet again,,,

 

Question - 

- isn't 12.7 VDC plenty ...?

- what would you recommend ......??

 

Evening Bill

 

It does sound like a battery that is low on cranking power. Not unheard of on the Odyssey as that battery needs a slightly higher charging voltage than the 1100 alternator puts out.

 

You do need to see what your cranking voltage is, if under 10.5 volts you will probably get an ABS malfunction. (maybe even as high as 11 volts on some 1100 bikes).

 

There is a recovery process that can be run on the odyssey by running it down using a certain load then recharging at a higher current. Most battery trickle chargers don't put out enough current or voltage to do this. 

 

If you are away from home try starting the motorcycle, it you get an ABS default then ride it for a ways to charge up the battery, then simply turn the key off THEN do an engine restart (in most cases the ABS won't default on the 2nd start after riding) 

 

You can also add a switch or even a relay in the ABS to allow a running engine ABS re-set/self test. 

[Bill Cats]

I see,,,,,, where would I add a switch to allow the running reset )) that sounds way easy,.

- would it be a push button , ( more detail,,

- where would I solder the ends in ? 

- does the switch break the voltage and then reconnect it ? 

- ?? Is it also am option to get a regular lead acid battery ? 

If so do u have details on one you would recommend ( if that would fix it ) then I can check the price of  the battery ,,, and make a decision )))

And thank you,,,,, yet again ,,,,  

[Bill Cats]

4 hours ago, TSConver said:

The battery could be bad even if fully charged. What does the voltage drop to when cranking it?

I'll have to check that ,,,,, just got asked that in last post and didn't see yours ))) 

[dirtrider]

Morning Bill

 

I see,,,,,, where would I add a switch to allow the running reset )) that sounds way easy,.

- would it be a push button , ( more detail,,---  In the Green 12v+ wire going to the ABS module. 

 

- where would I solder the ends in ? --- Wherever you cut into that green wire. I will provide more info if you decide to do it. 

 

- does the switch break the voltage and then reconnect it ? --- Yes, you can use either a N/C momentary pushbutton switch or a standard on/off switch.

 

- ?? Is it also am option to get a regular lead acid battery ? --- Yes, if low cranking voltage is the actual problem, see what your nominal cranking voltage is before deciding.   

 

If so do u have details on one you would recommend ( if that would fix it ) then I can check the price of  the battery ,,, and make a decision )))--- Personally I don't use conventional lead/acid batteries in difficult to access battery motorcycles so hopefully someone that still does can make a recommendation on a lead acid battery.

 

There are also other AGM type batteries that will work  in your motorcycle. The Odyssey PC-680 is kind of an outlier as it typically requires a slightly higher charging voltage to reach 100% SOC.

 

 

 

[Bill Cats]

Additional data ;

- pulled in after a 1 hour ride last night - 

 -  after a ride - Voltage  12.87 vdc

-   restarted immediately after checking voltage and ABS went straight to fault after start - 

-  plugged battery tender on bike - 

- came out in morning and unplugged tender - 

- came back 2 hours later and checked battery voltage - 13.28 vdc

- turned key on and good ABS self test -

- hooked digital volt meter up and monitored

- cranked bike - While cranking battery voltage dropped to 9.68 vdc

- bike started and voltage was reading 12.70 vdc AND ABS went straight to a fault condition ;))

 

Thoughts......??

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

11 hours ago, Bill Cats said:

Additional data ;

- pulled in after a 1 hour ride last night - 

 -  after a ride - Voltage  12.87 vdc

-   restarted immediately after checking voltage and ABS went straight to fault after start - 

-  plugged battery tender on bike - 

- came out in morning and unplugged tender - 

- came back 2 hours later and checked battery voltage - 13.28 vdc

- turned key on and good ABS self test -

- hooked digital volt meter up and monitored

- cranked bike - While cranking battery voltage dropped to 9.68 vdc

- bike started and voltage was reading 12.70 vdc AND ABS went straight to a fault condition ;))

 

Thoughts......??

 

Morning Bill 

 

That 9.68 vdc during cranking is under the low voltage threshold for the ABS to fault. Your Odyssey battery is showing signs of sulfation as it shows good no load voltage***** but low voltage under cranking load.  

 

*****  The only true no load voltage is taken after 12 hours as that allows the surface charge to flash off.

 

Let motorcycle sit without charger on it for 12 hours (to flash off battery surface charge), THEN see what your battery voltage is?

 

It is pointing to a sulfated battery but a dirty worn starter can also cause very similar low cranking voltage. 

 

You can have your battery load tested but that doesn't always tell the truth, plus if you go through all the hassle of removing your battery might as well install a new one (how old is you present PC-680?)

[Bill Cats]

Gm 🌞🌞🌞)))

I got the bike last fall , so I don't know how old the battery is,, the PO just said " that kind of battery isn't good with the ABS but was expensive ". Lol 

,,, 

Next step is to measure the battery this morning,, I did not plug in last night ,,, 

 

If I go the momentry switch is the green wire right at the connection on the ABS unit ?? 

 

 

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, Bill Cats said:

Gm 🌞🌞🌞)))

I got the bike last fall , so I don't know how old the battery is,, the PO just said " that kind of battery isn't good with the ABS but was expensive ". Lol 

,,, 

Next step is to measure the battery this morning,, I did not plug in last night ,,, 

 

If I go the momentry switch is the green wire right at the connection on the ABS unit ?? 

 

Afternoon Bill

 

Yes, green wire going to terminal (15)  at the ABS connector.