99 r1100rt valves

[Dingo55]

Hi .Have just signed in as a member to this amazing bank of knowledge and wisdom so thank you all for the info I have gleaned already

I currently own a 1999 R1100RT having previously owned a 1998 R1100RT and a 1994 R1100RS.

I bought my current bike with 60k kms on it and it now has 103k kms.

Out on the open road last week at a good clip it suddenly lost considerable power and sounded like a tractor instead of my usual purring Beemer.

Got home LSS did compression test nothing on the right side.

Pulled the head discovered good (not) size hole in one exhaust valve.

Bit of carbon build up

From my research It would seem valve adjustment may be the culprit.

My problem now is the local (Perth WA) dealer wants $300 for a single valve.

Is that somewhere in the ballpark or is that a fair bit of gouging happening there? 

Any opinions appreciated 

Cheers 

Mark

[Jim Moore]

Looks like a valve is about $200 US. 

 

Btw, I'm not sure a bad valve adjustment was the culprit. Sometimes these things eat an exhaust valve. It's not exactly common, but it's not unheard of either. Sorry it happened to you. Document the repair for us.

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, Mark Donnellan said:

Hi .Have just signed in as a member to this amazing bank of knowledge and wisdom so thank you all for the info I have gleaned already

I currently own a 1999 R1100RT having previously owned a 1998 R1100RT and a 1994 R1100RS.

I bought my current bike with 60k kms on it and it now has 103k kms.

Out on the open road last week at a good clip it suddenly lost considerable power and sounded like a tractor instead of my usual purring Beemer.

Got home LSS did compression test nothing on the right side.

Pulled the head discovered good (not) size hole in one exhaust valve.

Bit of carbon build up

From my research It would seem valve adjustment may be the culprit.

My problem now is the local (Perth WA) dealer wants $300 for a single valve.

Is that somewhere in the ballpark or is that a fair bit of gouging happening there? 

Any opinions appreciated 

Cheers 

Mark

 

Morning   Mark

 

You can get an entire cylinder head (2000 1100RT) on E-Bay (broken exhaust bolt) for $45.00 including free shipping. ____ 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/00-2000-r-1100-rt-r1100-1100rt-r1100rt-cylinder-head-broken-bolt/164220255335?fits=Make%3ABMW&hash=item263c4a3c67:g:qioAAOSwLrlezX6c#vi-ilComp

 

Or from A&S BMW (1-916-726-7334) ---- EXHAUST VALVE  (10/1995 up)  -    p/n 11341342017___ $194.33, also free shipping.  

 

Or try calling BeemerBoneyard, possibly they can help you out__ (973) 775-3495  12pm-5pm EST Mon-Fri.

 

 

As Jim mentioned probably not a valve adjustment problem caused yours to fail, sometimes just a valve failure (usually exhaust valve) or possibly a small spec of carbon (or something) caught between valve margin & valve seat caused a hot spot, then a valve crack, then a valve failure. 

 

Look closely at your valve seat as you might also need a new  valve seat if yours is eroded,  pitted, or damaged.   

[Dingo55]

thanks

Really appreciate your help with this

May have found a head over east (Australia)

Ill follow that up tomorrow

It is marked as being from a R1100S

Would you know if that would pose any problems in terms of fitment?

Thanks again

Cheers

Mark 

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, Mark Donnellan said:

thanks

Really appreciate your help with this

May have found a head over east (Australia)

Ill follow that up tomorrow

It is marked as being from a R1100S

Would you know if that would pose any problems in terms of fitment?

Thanks again

Cheers

Mark 

Morning Mark

 

You probably don't want a later (after 12/2002)  1100S as the S engine is different than your 1100RT & uses a different exhaust valve.

 

The pre 12/2002 1100S does use the same exhaust valve (at least according to my parts book here in the USA). I can't be sure on non USA 1100S bikes.

 

The cylinder heads are different between the 1100S & the 1100RT (both early & late)

 

The BIG problem in dealing with used cylinder heads for the 1100RT/ 1100R/ 1100S is the valve stem dimeter difference  as there were two stem dimeters used   (5mmm & 6mm). Obviously a 5mm valve stem won't work in a 6mm head & a 6mm valve won't work in a 5mm head.

 

Your best bet for full cylinder head swaps on the 1100RT is to try to stay with about the same  year models & engines if possible.   

[Michaelr11]

Sometimes, it just happens.   Doubt it was valve adjustment.

[Dingo55]

Thank you all

Appears it may be easier to take a deep breath and purchase a new valve

So a couple of questions if I may

1 Is it advisable to simply replace a single valve?

2 Are there other components I should purchase ( beside the valve seat)? 

3 Should all valves be removed and properly cleaned/de carboned?

4 Should I do the same on the other head?

5 What is the best way to de carbon head/ valves/piston? while apart and when back in riding mode?

Probably have more questions later but seriously appreciate all of your generous responses

The A&S BMW site said that product shipping was only available to US and Canada residents ( is that correct?)

Thanks again   

 

[dirtrider]

Morning Mark

 

 

 

 

1 Is it advisable to simply replace a single valve?-- Depends on the condition of the other valves & how much that you want to spend.  I usually remove & thoroughly clean the other valves then closely inspect them for damage or cracking.  As a general rule, on a catastrophic valve failure like you have, personally I replace both exhaust valves on that cylinder head just as a precaution. 

 

2 Are there other components I should purchase ( beside the valve seat)?--  Cylinder head gasket, exhaust sealing ring, new valve seals,  any other gaskets or parts needed for re-assembly. Do you need the new seat??  If your seat is still good that will save you some time & money. 

 

3 Should all valves be removed and properly cleaned/de carboned?--  Yes, at least on that side cylinder head.

 

4 Should I do the same on the other head?--  Only if you have the time & the money. Good idea to do so but it adds extra time & money to the job.  

 

5 What is the best way to de carbon head/ valves/piston? while apart and when back in riding mode?-- Scrape with soft scrapers to not damage the alloy head or soft alloy piston tops. Soaking with a de-carboning product first helps somewhat but not a lot. Personally  I use a right angle die grinder with a soft (rubber like) carbon removing disk. LOTS OF WORK to remove that hard baked on carbon. 

 

The A&S BMW site said that product shipping was only available to US and Canada residents ( is that correct?)-- I don't know you might try E-Mailing them & asking.    

 

[Michaelr11]

Mark,

 

If it gives you any comfort, the exhaust valve photo I provided earlier went out at 105k miles.  That repair was done by my local BMW dealer.  Only that head was removed, and only that valve was replaced.  All the valves were lapped to make sure they were sealing perfectly.  That was seven years and 112k miles ago.

 

[Dingo55]

Hi 

Thank you both for your replies

Just back from the machine shop and the very knowledgeable guy there is confident that replacing the one valve will be the fix

Very reassuring to hear your story re mileage after what appears to be a similar valve story

Have you done anything different since that time ie different plugs, fuel additives, more servicing ?

This would appear to be more common to the r/h head. Is there any known mechanical reason why that might be?

Just trying to take me out of the equation in case I may have contributed to this issue through my limited knowledge 

Have managed to source a valve ex Sydney but unfortunately the machine shop is shutting for a 3 week break so no wind in the face for me for a bit 

At least we are Covid free 

Thank you all again for your help . Much appreciated 

Stay safe and have a great Xmas 

Cheers

Mark  

[Paul De]

18 hours ago, Michaelr11 said:

All the valves were lapped to make sure they were sealing perfectly. 

If you are doing this yourself do not skip this step even if you are not replacing valve seats   

 

Happy Holidays....and here we have free Covid!?

[Michaelr11]

15 hours ago, Mark Donnellan said:

Have you done anything different since that time ie different plugs, fuel additives, more servicing ?

This would appear to be more common to the r/h head. Is there any known mechanical reason why that might be?

Just trying to take me out of the equation in case I may have contributed to this issue through my limited knowledge 

 

Mine was an exhaust valve in the left head.  I do all of my own service.  Service is done on a regular basis.  Used to follow the 6K/12K service intervals.  Recently switched over to 5K service interval - just makes it easy to note 15k, 20k, 25k miles.  Typically 20w50 motorcycle (higher ZDDP), SG/SH rated mineral oil. Usually will change the gear oil on the 5k interval even though it's supposed to be every other service.  Sparkplugs changed on the 10k service.  Frequent addition of some Techron to the gas tank.

[Dingo55]

Thanks for all your help to date

Some more ?'s if I may

Still waiting for the machine shop to reopen after xmas break

I'm currently into this fix as far as my expertise is up for ( not even sure I'm brave enough to clean the top of the piston in situ)

I've seen some suggestion of grease around piston top to prevent gunk getting into cylinder but then moving piston down to clean area afterwards. I thought I'd read best not to rotate off TDC until all back together ( have I understood that correctly?)

Is there any info that I'll need to pass onto machine shop guy re torques/gaps etc that he might not necessarily have access to?

How accurate are torque wrenches? ( It seems every nut/bolt on the bmw has a different torque requirement)

Techron concentrate seems to get a good rap regarding ongoing carbon minimization 

Haven't found that in OZ as yet. Is there an active ingredient that might be used in something I can get locally?

Are there ingredients to avoid

Thanks again for everybody's help 

Much appreciated

Cheers

Mark

 

 

[Dingo55]

Cancel the Techron query 

Seems it's branded as a Caltex product here so hopefully easy enough to find

Cheers

Mark

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, Dingo55 said:

Thanks for all your help to date

Some more ?'s if I may

Still waiting for the machine shop to reopen after xmas break

I'm currently into this fix as far as my expertise is up for ( not even sure I'm brave enough to clean the top of the piston in situ)

I've seen some suggestion of grease around piston top to prevent gunk getting into cylinder but then moving piston down to clean area afterwards. I thought I'd read best not to rotate off TDC until all back together ( have I understood that correctly?)

Is there any info that I'll need to pass onto machine shop guy re torques/gaps etc that he might not necessarily have access to?

How accurate are torque wrenches? ( It seems every nut/bolt on the bmw has a different torque requirement)

Techron concentrate seems to get a good rap regarding ongoing carbon minimization 

Haven't found that in OZ as yet. Is there an active ingredient that might be used in something I can get locally?

Are there ingredients to avoid

Thanks again for everybody's help 

Much appreciated

Morning Mark 

 

Still waiting for the machine shop to reopen after xmas break

I'm currently into this fix as far as my expertise is up for ( not even sure I'm brave enough to clean the top of the piston in situ)

I've seen some suggestion of grease around piston top to prevent gunk getting into cylinder but then moving piston down to clean area afterwards. I thought I'd read best not to rotate off TDC until all back together ( have I understood that correctly?)-- Yes, a little grease can help prevent gunk from getting in & down around the top piston ring. Some do that & others don't. The crankshaft can be rotated slightly (enough) to move the piston enough to remove the greases & crud BUT it must be done with care & while holding the cam chain extended  tight (you don't want the chain to double up or jam). IF you do this be sure to rotate the crankshaft back to TDC when done.  

 

Is there any info that I'll need to pass onto machine shop guy re torques/gaps etc that he might not necessarily have access to?-- Depends on the machine shop & what info they have available.  Ask them if they need any specific information, if they say yes then we can probably supply that info.

 

How accurate are torque wrenches? ( It seems every nut/bolt on the bmw has a different torque requirement)-- Depends on the torque wrench & how often that they are calibrated. I use high quality torque wrenches that & routinely check the calibration on. Not too bad on the higher torque bolts & nuts but very important on the lower torque bolts & as those strip easily. Using a torque wrench in it's center measuring  range is usually more precise as they don't always read correctly in the lower or upper ranges (ie don't use a 10nm to 100 nm torque wrench to torque a 10 nm bolt) 

 

Techron concentrate seems to get a good rap regarding ongoing carbon minimization -- It is somewhat good for soft carbon or for preventing light carbon buildup but not good at removing baked on hard carbon. 

It works best on fuel system varnish or fuel system areas but not that great on hard carbon removal. 

[Dingo55]

Thanks DR

Appreciate your help

I've just come across another of your posts from some years back on the carbon topic

It confirms something that I was wondering in that you never know exactly what you are inheriting on second and third hand bikes regarding run in procedures

I'm guessing this is the same reason people continually warn of buying ex police force bikes. Not enough hard work to bed things in properly

I guess it would be hard after outlaying some good hard earned on a shiny new pride and joy to go out and give it some stick from day one

I figure to clean the piston tops as best I can and with both heads de carboned and valves reset I'll at least be back to a base line starting point

Not sure where I would sit on the aggressive rider scale

Certainly not a red line rider but definitely like to let it run free as often as possible

Wanted to ask about the noise when cracking the cam chain sprocket bolt

I'm no mechanic but have over the time cranked on my share of nuts and bolts but have never heard a noise like that.

I felt sure I had broken something but everything seems to be in order

When I get to do the other (L/H) side is that the same procedure given the other way up of the cam chain tensioner?

( I think I have the older style but have never noticed the start up noise that many report)

I'll try and get hold of the newer type but might have some lag time till it arrives

Once again appreciate everyone's help

Stay safe 

Cheers

Mark  

[dirtrider]

6 hours ago, Dingo55 said:

Thanks DR

Appreciate your help

 

Wanted to ask about the noise when cracking the cam chain sprocket bolt

I'm no mechanic but have over the time cranked on my share of nuts and bolts but have never heard a noise like that.

I felt sure I had broken something but everything seems to be in order

When I get to do the other (L/H) side is that the same procedure given the other way up of the cam chain tensioner?

( I think I have the older style but have never noticed the start up noise that many report)

I'll try and get hold of the newer type but might have some lag time till it arrives

 

Morning   Mark

 

Definitely do replace the L/H cam chain tensioner if it is still the old style  (old style has a 17mm head), the new updated tensioner has a 15mm head.

 

On the cam sprocket bolts?-- Those can be very tight & really jump when first moved. Personally I usually replace  those cam sprocket bolts after each removal as I have seen a number of them break over the years when re-used. (just good insurance to replace them).