98 r1100rt die at idle cold

[Blake8098]

When I start up first thing it seems to have rough idle even with choke. Then, even with choke, It has died when I’m slowing down with clutch pulled in. Tips?

[dirtrider]

10 minutes ago, Blake8098 said:

When I start up first thing it seems to have rough idle even with choke. Then, even with choke, It has died when I’m slowing down with clutch pulled in. Tips?

Afternoon  Blake8098

 

First thing to try is to adjust your fast-idle cable (choke cable) to give you a higher  cold-engine fast idle. (little rubber boot up by the choke lever, slide it down the cable & that should expose the choke cable adjuster) 

 

Your choke isn't really a choke as ALL it does is increase the idle RPM when used. 

 

 

[Blake8098]

9 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon  Blake8098

 

First thing to try is to adjust your fast-idle cable (choke cable) to give you a higher  cold-engine fast idle. (little rubber boot up by the choke lever, slide it down the cable & that should expose the choke cable adjuster) 

 

Your choke isn't really a choke as ALL it does is increase the idle RPM when used. 

 

 

Thank you! I will try that! Yeah I’ve read that it is some kind of idle thing. Thought it was really weird that it said choke on the handle. Threw my brain for a loop

[Miguel!]

dirtrider, Do I remember correctly that the choke only adjusts the injector on the left cylinder? If so, why did they do that? Inquiring minds want to know!! Thanks

Miguel

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, Miguel! said:

dirtrider, Do I remember correctly that the choke only adjusts the injector on the left cylinder? If so, why did they do that? Inquiring minds want to know!! Thanks

Miguel

Afternoon  Miguel!

 

It actually adjusts both sides (even thought it doesn't look that away).

 

On the early 1100 bikes the choke cable goes to only the left side throttle body cam BUT there is a connecting "cross-over" cable running from the L/H TB cam to the R/H TB cam so it actually open both sides together.

 

On the later 1100 bikes and  on the 1150 bikes the choke cable goes to the Bowden box & pulls on a wedge, that wedge movement then adjusts (moves)  both short throttle cables going from the Bowden box to both the L/H & R/H throttle body cams.

[Blake8098]

4 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon  Blake8098

 

First thing to try is to adjust your fast-idle cable (choke cable) to give you a higher  cold-engine fast idle. (little rubber boot up by the choke lever, slide it down the cable & that should expose the choke cable adjuster) 

 

Your choke isn't really a choke as ALL it does is increase the idle RPM when used. 

 

 

Went out for a ride earlier without messing with this cable. It died/ran rough with no “choke” at all. Would adjusting the choke cable fix this? Seems like it would be a different problem 

[dirtrider]

19 minutes ago, Blake8098 said:

Went out for a ride earlier without messing with this cable. It died/ran rough with no “choke” at all. Would adjusting the choke cable fix this? Seems like it would be a different problem 

Evening   Blake8098

 

No, adjusting the choke cable would only effect the cold engine idle.

 

You have something else going on with that motorcycle, your problem could be a number of things from a failing o2 sensor, to a fueling issue, to a TPS issue, to a spark issue, to an actual engine mechanical issue, to ????? 

 

When did your stalling problem start, that might give us a starting point to begin looking? If it JUST started then possibly you have some bad fuel in the fuel tank.      

 

As a starting point try removing the CCP from the fuse box then see if it runs & idles better.   That will eliminate teh o2 sensor as the cause).

[Blake8098]

33 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Evening   Blake8098

 

No, adjusting the choke cable would only effect the cold engine idle.

 

You have something else going on with that motorcycle, your problem could be a number of things from a failing o2 sensor, to a fueling issue, to a TPS issue, to a spark issue, to an actual engine mechanical issue, to ????? 

 

When did your stalling problem start, that might give us a starting point to begin looking? If it JUST started then possibly you have some bad fuel in the fuel tank.      

 

As a starting point try removing the CCP from the fuse box then see if it runs & idles better.   That will eliminate teh o2 sensor as the cause).

Just started when it started cooling off. That’s why I thought it was cold starting problem. But after about 45 minutes of riding, stopped at a light and about every 4-10 seconds it would have a small “miss”

[Jim Moore]

What is your idle at when the bike is warmed up? The spec calls for 1050 +/- 50. I prefer 1200 or so. It seems to idle a little smoother and comes off the bottom a little cleaner. 

[dirtrider]

11 hours ago, Blake8098 said:

Just started when it started cooling off. That’s why I thought it was cold starting problem. But after about 45 minutes of riding, stopped at a light and about every 4-10 seconds it would have a small “miss”

Morning Blake8098

 

Still lots of possibilities on your problem but we are getting more info from you little by little.  

 

How much have you ridden that motorcycle in the last 6 months?  _____________

 

How old is the gasoline in the fuel tank? ___________

 

Does it run & idle better without stalling when you ride it with the CCP removed? --This could help us figure it out. 

 

We just don't have enough base info from you yet to determine anything conclusive. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Blake8098]

10 hours ago, Jim Moore said:

What is your idle at when the bike is warmed up? The spec calls for 1050 +/- 50. I prefer 1200 or so. It seems to idle a little smoother and comes off the bottom a little cleaner. 

Between 1300 and 1400

 

7 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning Blake8098

 

Still lots of possibilities on your problem but we are getting more info from you little by little.  

 

How much have you ridden that motorcycle in the last 6 months?  _____________

 

How old is the gasoline in the fuel tank? ___________

 

Does it run & idle better without stalling when you ride it with the CCP removed? --This could help us figure it out. 

 

We just don't have enough base info from you yet to determine anything conclusive. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

just bought the bike a month ago(jumped into a bike without proper research because I’m an idiot) I’ve put about 600 miles on it. 
 

fuel is couple days old. Premium. 
 

I’ll try with the ccp out in just a bit and let you know. 
 

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, Blake8098 said:

Between 1300 and 1400

 

just bought the bike a month ago(jumped into a bike without proper research because I’m an idiot) I’ve put about 600 miles on it. 
 

fuel is couple days old. Premium. 
 

I’ll try with the ccp out in just a bit and let you know. 
 

Afternoon  Blake8098

 

OK, that makes our job more difficult as we don't have any history on that motorcycle. 

 

In a lot of cases a person sells a motorcycle because it has been sitting & not being used.

 

So, do try riding without that CCP then sees how it goes. 

 

You might also try adding some Techron concentrate to your fuel tank at each fill-up for a while-- If that motorcycle sat for long period before big sold it could have gunked up the fuel injectors so instead of spraying a fine mist they spray big droplets with a poor spray pattern & (that can easily cause a poor idle, idle misfire, & stalling).

 

Otherwise, if removing the CCP,  then adding some Techron & riding that through your system doesn't stop your stalling & idle mis-fire then you will probably have to  start at square-1 with a full tune-up, new spark plugs, cleaning the throttle body BBS screws & their seats, adjusting the valves,  do a Throttle Body balance,  probably run a fuel return flow test (or just replace the in-tank fuel filter & probably the U shaped high pressure hose while in there. (basically just start over & verify EVERYTHING in the engine fueling & sparking department).  

[Blake8098]

4 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon  Blake8098

 

OK, that makes our job more difficult as we don't have any history on that motorcycle. 

 

In a lot of cases a person sells a motorcycle because it has been sitting & not being used.

 

So, do try riding without that CCP then sees how it goes. 

 

You might also try adding some Techron concentrate to your fuel tank at each fill-up for a while-- If that motorcycle sat for long period before big sold it could have gunked up the fuel injectors so instead of spraying a fine mist they spray big droplets with a poor spray pattern & (that can easily cause a poor idle, idle misfire, & stalling).

 

Otherwise, if removing the CCP,  then adding some Techron & riding that through your system doesn't stop your stalling & idle mis-fire then you will probably have to  start at square-1 with a full tune-up, new spark plugs, cleaning the throttle body BBS screws & their seats, adjusting the valves,  do a Throttle Body balance,  probably run a fuel return flow test (or just replace the in-tank fuel filter & probably the U shaped high pressure hose while in there. (basically just start over & verify EVERYTHING in the engine fueling & sparking department).  

10-4. Thanks for the direction!

[Blake8098]

18 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon  Blake8098

 

OK, that makes our job more difficult as we don't have any history on that motorcycle. 

 

In a lot of cases a person sells a motorcycle because it has been sitting & not being used.

 

So, do try riding without that CCP then sees how it goes. 

 

You might also try adding some Techron concentrate to your fuel tank at each fill-up for a while-- If that motorcycle sat for long period before big sold it could have gunked up the fuel injectors so instead of spraying a fine mist they spray big droplets with a poor spray pattern & (that can easily cause a poor idle, idle misfire, & stalling).

 

Otherwise, if removing the CCP,  then adding some Techron & riding that through your system doesn't stop your stalling & idle mis-fire then you will probably have to  start at square-1 with a full tune-up, new spark plugs, cleaning the throttle body BBS screws & their seats, adjusting the valves,  do a Throttle Body balance,  probably run a fuel return flow test (or just replace the in-tank fuel filter & probably the U shaped high pressure hose while in there. (basically just start over & verify EVERYTHING in the engine fueling & sparking department).  

Do you happen to know which fuse is the ccp fuse? I can’t find it in climer manual or online 

[dirtrider]

2 minutes ago, Blake8098 said:

Do you happen to know which fuse is the ccp fuse? I can’t find it in climer manual or online 

Afternoon Blake8098

 

[Blake8098]

Thanks. Do I need to get it warm then pull it? Or should it make a difference, if it is the problem, while it’s cold?

[dirtrider]

10 minutes ago, Blake8098 said:

Thanks. Do I need to get it warm then pull it? Or should it make a difference, if it is the problem, while it’s cold?

Afternoon Blake8098

 

With key turned off, just remove the CCP, then remove fuse #5 for about 5 minutes (this deletes the old learned fueling adaption off-sets), then re-install fuse #5. 

 

Then start &  ride the motorcycle as normal to see if it quits stalling.  

[Blake8098]

19 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon Blake8098

 

With key turned off, just remove the CCP, then remove fuse #5 for about 5 minutes (this deletes the old learned fueling adaption off-sets), then re-install fuse #5. 

 

Then start &  ride the motorcycle as normal to see if it quits stalling.  

Ahhhh! I thought you meant ride it with it pulled. Thanks

[dirtrider]

2 minutes ago, Blake8098 said:

Ahhhh! I thought you meant ride it with it pulled. Thanks

Afternoon Blake8098

 

Yes, do ride it with the CCP removed.  That defaults it to the open loop (non o2 sensor controlled) fuel mapping. 

 

Remove CCP & fuse #5, then leave CCP removed but re-install fuse #5.

[Blake8098]

13 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon Blake8098

 

Yes, do ride it with the CCP removed.  That defaults it to the open loop (non o2 sensor controlled) fuel mapping. 

 

Remove CCP & fuse #5, then leave CCP removed but re-install fuse #5.

Oops. Read your first one too fast. I got it now. Thanks

[Blake8098]

9 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon Blake8098

 

Yes, do ride it with the CCP removed.  That defaults it to the open loop (non o2 sensor controlled) fuel mapping. 

 

Remove CCP & fuse #5, then leave CCP removed but re-install fuse #5.

So I did this and it ran significantly better, still slight blip of a miss here and there but much better. What do I need to do now to fix?

[dirtrider]

9 hours ago, Blake8098 said:

So I did this and it ran significantly better, still slight blip of a miss here and there but much better. What do I need to do now to fix?

Morning  Blake8098

 

If that got it to the point that the motorcycle is ridable without stalling then put some Techron in the fuel tank at each fill-up for a few fill-up's, then keep riding it. 

 

As for riding it with the CCP removed, a LOT of us old 1100 riders removed that CCP early in 1100 ownership then rode the motorcycle it's entire life like that (just basically turns the 1100 motorcycle into a non U.S. 1100 motorcycle).

 

Removing the CCP removes the o2 sensor from the fueling control, richens the idle &  also richens the fueling just above idle slightly, removes some, if not most of, the light throttle surging.   

 

After you ride it for a while with the CCP removed  you can try re-installing the CCP to see how it runs, but most riders will quickly go back to no-CCP configuration as they do run smoother at light throttle & at idle with no CCP. 

 

You will  eventually want to go through that motorcycle & do a fuel filter change, new spark plugs, valve adjustment, clean the BBS screws & their seats, do a throttle body synchronization, etc. 

 

If you are going to keep that motorcycle  & depend on it for transportation or longer trips (need it totally dependable)  then you will also want to have your HES (Hall Effect Sensor) re-built as that is a known failure point on the BMW 1100 motorcycles. When that quits due to wire degradation & moisture you walk home as they just QUIT running.

 

Long term you will probably want to replace the fuel hoses inside the fuel tank as that is another known failure point  & can cause a sudden engine quit while riding.   

 

Just work the above into your normal service & maintenance, or do it during off-season storage.    

[Blake8098]

On 10/19/2020 at 5:55 AM, dirtrider said:

Morning  Blake8098

 

If that got it to the point that the motorcycle is ridable without stalling then put some Techron in the fuel tank at each fill-up for a few fill-up's, then keep riding it. 

 

As for riding it with the CCP removed, a LOT of us old 1100 riders removed that CCP early in 1100 ownership then rode the motorcycle it's entire life like that (just basically turns the 1100 motorcycle into a non U.S. 1100 motorcycle).

 

Removing the CCP removes the o2 sensor from the fueling control, richens the idle &  also richens the fueling just above idle slightly, removes some, if not most of, the light throttle surging.   

 

After you ride it for a while with the CCP removed  you can try re-installing the CCP to see how it runs, but most riders will quickly go back to no-CCP configuration as they do run smoother at light throttle & at idle with no CCP. 

 

You will  eventually want to go through that motorcycle & do a fuel filter change, new spark plugs, valve adjustment, clean the BBS screws & their seats, do a throttle body synchronization, etc. 

 

If you are going to keep that motorcycle  & depend on it for transportation or longer trips (need it totally dependable)  then you will also want to have your HES (Hall Effect Sensor) re-built as that is a known failure point on the BMW 1100 motorcycles. When that quits due to wire degradation & moisture you walk home as they just QUIT running.

 

Long term you will probably want to replace the fuel hoses inside the fuel tank as that is another known failure point  & can cause a sudden engine quit while riding.   

 

Just work the above into your normal service & maintenance, or do it during off-season storage.    

Thanks again for all your help. Is there a way to tell if the hes has been done already? Also, I’ve realized that I’m only averaging about 25 mpg. What plays into fuel efficiency being way lower than what it should be?

[Miguel!]

For reference, 25 mpg is low relative to my well maintained 2001 R1100RT with 107K miles. I get 42-45 mpg mostly rural and mountain riding. Rare city riding. Miguel 

[dirtrider]

28 minutes ago, Blake8098 said:

Thanks again for all your help. Is there a way to tell if the hes has been done already? Also, I’ve realized that I’m only averaging about 25 mpg. What plays into fuel efficiency being way lower than what it should be?

Afternoon Blake8098

 

On the hoses, no real way to tell other than looking at them to see what condition they are in & even that might not tell as the "U" hose can look in great shape but still be failing from the inside out.

 

On the fuel mileage-- THAT depends, if all hi-way, or  long rides with few stops then that it is pretty low. If a lot of engine starting/running in place, pre-ride engine warm up, idling in traffic, stop & go riding  just playing around but no real travel riding then it might not be too bad.  

 

You might average a few fill up's together as those BMW's are kind of difficult to  consistently fill-up to the same level until you have owned them for a while & figure the  fill-to-top  thing out.