ABS fault continued

[joeb]

Bike  03 r1150rt 113,000 miles

So far relaced battery.  Flushed brake system. Thought problem solved, but then after a few miles flashing warning lights and brakes going to residual mode. I dont know if the following observations mean anything,  but here is what I noticed

1. If I turn off ignition and then turn back on. Brake seem to reset to normal with no warning lights

2. It seems that they fail after hard braking during the last 10 feet of roll when the rpms are low. I did experiment with keeping rpms up during stop and it seems like that averted the failure. 

Could it be that alternator is not putting out enough and causing a voltage related problem  ?

Would it help if I  put a volt meter on the bike while stationary,  rev it up with electrical load. let it back to idle

With brakes applied and see what voltage I'm reading, or would that be a waste of time??

Thanks all for your input.

[dirtrider]

40 minutes ago, joeb said:

Bike  03 r1150rt 113,000 miles

So far relaced battery.  Flushed brake system. Thought problem solved, but then after a few miles flashing warning lights and brakes going to residual mode. I dont know if the following observations mean anything,  but here is what I noticed

1. If I turn off ignition and then turn back on. Brake seem to reset to normal with no warning lights

2. It seems that they fail after hard braking during the last 10 feet of roll when the rpms are low. I did experiment with keeping rpms up during stop and it seems like that averted the failure. 

Could it be that alternator is not putting out enough and causing a voltage related problem  ?

Would it help if I  put a volt meter on the bike while stationary,  rev it up with electrical load. let it back to idle

With brakes applied and see what voltage I'm reading, or would that be a waste of time??

Thanks all for your input.

Afternoon  joeb

 

That last 10' of roll then a failure could be due to low voltage at the ABS module but that usually stores a low voltage fault. 

 

A voltmeter on the battery might show if you have an alternator problem causing low voltage (those servos draw a LOT of current when in use). 

 

You would think that a low alternator voltage at prolonged stop would put the generator light on (or flickering). 

 

 

 

[joeb]

When I had the gs911 report the kid who did it said it is the pumps, then later said electric, probably something in pump causing a high draw. Sounds a little fishy to me. 

Will try voltmeter and post results. 

 When I left the shop, the paper work I got, I thought , would have the fault codes. instead it was just a summary that said module bad. I wonder if I could get the actual codes.  Would that help ??

Thanks.

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, joeb said:

When I had the gs911 report the kid who did it said it is the pumps, then later said electric, probably something in pump causing a high draw. Sounds a little fishy to me. 

Will try voltmeter and post results. 

 When I left the shop, the paper work I got, I thought , would have the fault codes. instead it was just a summary that said module bad. I wonder if I could get the actual codes.  Would that help ??

Thanks.

Afternoon  joeb

 

Yes, definitely, having failure code, or codes could be a BIG help. If you have low voltage issue it should trap that.

 

I'm guessing that your problem is a failed internal pressure sensor as that would fit with your failure observation, those internal pressure sensors are also the part that ModuleMaster is having problems sourcing. 

[joeb]

Thanks

[joeb]

Update : still waiting on bmw to get back with the codes ( if they can find them ) .

Here are the results of my trouble shooting.

Voltmeter on battery, engine not running

12.91

Running 1500 rpm 14 volts

Running at 1100 rpm  heated grips high-beam. Brakes repeatedly on off hard voltage fluctuates between 12.4 -13. With normal startup brake flashing warning. 

After a while then would get the brake fail/master fast brake fail,,steady master warning without any noticeable drop in volt below 12.5. 

Although earlier in the day thought I did see a temporary 11.6 which prceeded the two warning lights.

 Any of this giving you any ideas ??

Thanks

 

[dirtrider]

Afternoon joeb

 

With engine hot & idling with normal accessories on use  both front & rear brakes (lever/pedal) apply brakes hard for a about 30 seconds. Now see what your voltage droops to?  

 

11.6v running is getting close to the ABS default point. 

[joeb]

12.5 was pretty consistent.  The 11.6 only happened 1 time earlier today, but the fail lights came on mostly around the 12.5

Just got off phone with the mechanics at bmw and they said if I want to go back to them they would rerun the 911 as they dont generally keep or print out the codes. He did say usually there are 3 codes, fluid, sensor, servo voltage. Mine was the latter. Pointed out that it's almost always a gummed up pump that is binding up and drawing too much current. He alluded to someone other than module masters who has a shop that will work on unit but doesn't know who. Any ideas ? And thanks for your time.

[dirtrider]

3 minutes ago, joeb said:

12.5 was pretty consistent.  The 11.6 only happened 1 time earlier today, but the fail lights came on mostly around the 12.5

Just got off phone with the mechanics at bmw and they said if I want to go back to them they would rerun the 911 as they dont generally keep or print out the codes. He did say usually there are 3 codes, fluid, sensor, servo voltage. Mine was the latter. Pointed out that it's almost always a gummed up pump that is binding up and drawing too much current. He alluded to someone other than module masters who has a shop that will work on unit but doesn't know who. Any ideas ? And thanks for your time.

Afternoon joeb

 

You really need to get the codes, otherwise we are just guessing. Guessing wrong will not do you any good & it might send us in the wrong direction missing an important clue.

[joeb]

Well the fun continues. At bmw now. They were supposed to run another 911 and give me the print out, but after an inordinate amount of time I check in with the mechanics. Fairings and tank off. why they said the code was for low fluid. I just flushed and topped last week. Examination confirmed that. Then no more codes. Nothing stored. Mechanic now doing test drive. Just gets stranger and stranger. 30 miles into ride to bmw got one brake warning.  Kept rpms up when i stopped will see what's next. Ideas??

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, joeb said:

Well the fun continues. At bmw now. They were supposed to run another 911 and give me the print out, but after an inordinate amount of time I check in with the mechanics. Fairings and tank off. why they said the code was for low fluid. I just flushed and topped last week. Examination confirmed that. Then no more codes. Nothing stored. Mechanic now doing test drive. Just gets stranger and stranger. 30 miles into ride to bmw got one brake warning.  Kept rpms up when i stopped will see what's next. Ideas??

Afternoon Joeb

 

Yes, find another dealer!!!!

 

See what the test drive shows then we will go form there. 

[joeb]

Test drive confirmed fail.code and analysis as follows

00431D front wheel circuit

Fault description: the measured wheel brake cylinder pressure at the front wheel is too low in relation to the control pressure. 

 

Condition for fault identification

     Voltage supply 9.V<U<16.0 V

     Terminal 15 on

Condition for fault memory entry

Same as fault identification

Note on effect of fault

Brake servo assistance, front: deactivated

ABS Control function, front : deactivated 

That's pretty much all she wrote.

On the other hand, if too much of a problem to fix I've got a bead on a 2012 rt with original 105 miles, just serviced gas drained new fuel pump

Asking $ 9995 

It was driven 105 miles and parked in garage. Is this a good deal ??

 

[dirtrider]

52 minutes ago, joeb said:

Test drive confirmed fail.code and analysis as follows

00431D front wheel circuit

Fault description: the measured wheel brake cylinder pressure at the front wheel is too low in relation to the control pressure. 

 

Condition for fault identification

     Voltage supply 9.V<U<16.0 V

     Terminal 15 on

Condition for fault memory entry

Same as fault identification

Note on effect of fault

Brake servo assistance, front: deactivated

ABS Control function, front : deactivated 

That's pretty much all she wrote.

On the other hand, if too much of a problem to fix I've got a bead on a 2012 rt with original 105 miles, just serviced gas drained new fuel pump

Asking $ 9995 

It was driven 105 miles and parked in garage. Is this a good deal ??

 

Evening Joeb 

 

That code you show could be telling us that it has a failing internal pressure sensor on the front circuit.

 

Call ModuleMaster  (888) 892-0764 & tell them the code & info you posted here, they can then tell you if they can repair it & how much.   

 

You do an option of removing that ABS system but you will have to do that yourself as a dealer won't do that due to liability concerns. 

 

On that 2012 motorcycle, that could be a good deal or junk, it ALL depends on how it was prepared before storage, & how long old gasoline sat in that thing.  An incorrectly stored late model BMW can be a REAL MONEY PIT.   

[joeb]

The 12 had old gas so it was drained and new fuel pump installed. I'm under the impression that it was pulled into a garage and just left there. Suppose the injectors could be clogged,  not sure what else to worry about.  I would request new tires as they could be 9 years old by now . Will call module master monday and see what they say, but not holding out much hope. It was also pointed out my 03 needs new pivot bearing. If they do it about 2hrs labor. If I remove abs just need to spend sometime on bypassing the electrical for the tail and brake light. Thanks for your time it is appreciated. 

[dirtrider]

8 minutes ago, joeb said:

The 12 had old gas so it was drained and new fuel pump installed. I'm under the impression that it was pulled into a garage and just left there. Suppose the injectors could be clogged,  not sure what else to worry about.  I would request new tires as they could be 9 years old by now . 

Evening Joeb

 

A person REALLY REALLY REALLY needs to understand what they might be getting into buying a late model BMW that sat for a while with sour gasoline in it.  Everything on those bikes is expensive & some things difficult to replace. 

[joeb]

Sort of what I was thinking. Thanks

From a reliability and ease of maintenance view, is there a preference for air cooled or water cooled engines?

[dirtrider]

10 hours ago, joeb said:

Sort of what I was thinking. Thanks

From a reliability and ease of maintenance view, is there a preference for air cooled or water cooled engines?

Morning Joeb

 

They are all air cooled, it is just a matter of how the engine heat is transferred to the  air.

 

To answer your question, the older oilhead (oil cooled) are easiest, then the hexhead/camhead (still oil cooling) are easier for most to maintain without special tools, but with the correct tools and knowledge the wethead (water cooled) isn't too bad, but it is definitely more complex.