R1100RT Cylinder Head Gasket

[Krolroger]

Hi all,

 

I just wondered if anyone could throw any light on the right hand cylinder head I have removed from my 1995 1100RT?

 

It has the p/n 11 12 1 341 976.  The valve stems are 6mm, and it's got 9 fins.

 

I can't find the part number in any online fiche and I'm slightly confused because it had the thin head gasket on it.  This could have been a workshop error.  I assume it's the original head.

 

Am I right in thinking that I should use the 4 part thick head gasket (#11 12 1 342 869) on reassembly?

 

Cheers,

 

Simon

 

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

52 minutes ago, Krolroger said:

Hi all,

 

I just wondered if anyone could throw any light on the right hand cylinder head I have removed from my 1995 1100RT?

 

It has the p/n 11 12 1 341 976.  The valve stems are 6mm, and it's got 9 fins.

 

I can't find the part number in any online fiche and I'm slightly confused because it had the thin head gasket on it.  This could have been a workshop error.  I assume it's the original head.

 

Am I right in thinking that I should use the 4 part thick head gasket (#11 12 1 342 869) on reassembly?

 

Cheers,

 

Simon

 

Afternoon Simon 

 

I don't show that part number in any of my parts books, what is the casting number on the head?  Closest I can find is 11 12 1 341 996

 

You might try calling or E-Mailing Beemer Boneyard Customer Service: (973) 775-3495 as they might have a usage listing on that part number.

 

Check your messages on this site as I just sent you a BMW service bulletin on head gasket usage/replacement on the 1100. 

 

[Krolroger]

Hi there,

 

Thanks for quick reply and service bulletin.

 

The fiche I looked at says that #1 341 173 - recommended in the bulletin for retrofitting - is superceded  by #1 342 869 which is also exchangeable retrospectively, so I guess I can use that.

 

Still puzzled by my non standard head.  It was a UK supplied bike afaik.

 

Simon

 

 

 

 

[Krolroger]

[Jim Moore]

There are dowels on the head, either 12 mm or 14 mm. You need to measure your dowels, then but the head gasket with the correct size holes. I don't remember which is which. Also, I think the 14mm holes will work with the 12 mm dowels, but the 12 mm holes won't work with the 14 mm dowels.

[dirtrider]

27 minutes ago, Jim Moore said:

There are dowels on the head, either 12 mm or 14 mm. You need to measure your dowels, then but the head gasket with the correct size holes. I don't remember which is which. Also, I think the 14mm holes will work with the 12 mm dowels, but the 12 mm holes won't work with the 14 mm dowels.

Afternoon Jim

 

The pre 1998 1100RT uses the larger 14.5 mm dowels, the p/n  342 869  gasket he specified is for the pre 1998 & he has a 1995 motorcycle so the p/n  342 869 should be correct. 

 

[Krolroger]

Good afternoon,

 

The refurbed right hand head has gone back onto the R1100RT this afternoon but I am having some difficulty getting the cam sprocket onto the camshaft.  I'd be grateful for advice.

 

Presumably, it should be an easy-ish hand fit but I am finding any amount of manipulation, light tapping isn't getting it to slide home, or what I assume is home.  

 

Should the face of the sprocket be flush with the chamfered edge of the camshaft to enable the key to engage in the vertical slot?  The pics show the sprocket as far as it will comfortably go onto the shaft.

 

Perhaps there's a knack to this.  Or is the idea to use the bolt to pull it into position?

 

It did occur to me that given the amount of force necessary to undo the camshaft bolt (last time I go to that tech) the sprocket might have distorted in some way, though I think that's unlikely?

 

Thanks for advice,

 

Krolroger

 

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

22 minutes ago, Krolroger said:

Good afternoon,

 

The refurbed right hand head has gone back onto the R1100RT this afternoon but I am having some difficulty getting the cam sprocket onto the camshaft.  I'd be grateful for advice.

 

Presumably, it should be an easy-ish hand fit but I am finding any amount of manipulation, light tapping isn't getting it to slide home, or what I assume is home.  

 

Should the face of the sprocket be flush with the chamfered edge of the camshaft to enable the key to engage in the vertical slot?  The pics show the sprocket as far as it will comfortably go onto the shaft.

 

Perhaps there's a knack to this.  Or is the idea to use the bolt to pull it into position?

 

It did occur to me that given the amount of force necessary to undo the camshaft bolt (last time I go to that tech) the sprocket might have distorted in some way, though I think that's unlikely?

 

Thanks for advice,

 

Krolroger

 

Afternoon  Krolroger

 

That sprocket should go on by hand (no bolt to pull it home).

 

Is the chain tensioner removed for the install?

 

Any chance those zip ties are preventing it from going on correctly?

 

I have on occasion found the cam chain doubled up  (link sticking up) on the lower accessory drive sprocket therefore making the chain too short to allow the cam sprocket to go on correctly  (something to check) .

 

The sprocket should go on until the sprocket tit is in the cam slot.

 

 

[Krolroger]

Hi Dirtrider,

 

That's what I thought.  I don't think the zip ties are in the way and there's slack in the chain (tensioner out).

 

Might just run some emery cloth round the inside of the sprocket in case there's a nib preventing full engagement.

 

Thanks again,

[Krolroger]

Good afternoon,

 

Well, the saga continues.  No amount of gentle persuasion would get the cam sprocket to engage more than an eighth of an inch with the camshaft, so I have removed it.

 

What I find is that the nub on the back of it looks to be splayed (pic) on one edge.  This isn't what stopped it engaging fully with the shaft because it wouldn't go on nearly far enough for me to find out.

 

Is this normal wear and tear (is this the leading edge on the rhs sprocket?) or a case of the sprocket having been axially misaligned for some 10's of thousands of miles since gorilla paws put it on years ago?

 

The sprocket sits flat on a straight edge  but I can't get it to fit on any spare camshafts I have lying around even with perfect access.  I dare say I could whack it on but my understanding is that it should be a hand fit.  (Were there changes in production tolerances?)

 

Should I bin this one and get another?

 

Thanks again,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

32 minutes ago, Krolroger said:

Good afternoon,

 

Well, the saga continues.  No amount of gentle persuasion would get the cam sprocket to engage more than an eighth of an inch with the camshaft, so I have removed it.

 

What I find is that the nub on the back of it looks to be splayed (pic) on one edge.  This isn't what stopped it engaging fully with the shaft because it wouldn't go on nearly far enough for me to find out.

 

Is this normal wear and tear (is this the leading edge on the rhs sprocket?) or a case of the sprocket having been axially misaligned for some 10's of thousands of miles since gorilla paws put it on years ago?

 

The sprocket sits flat on a straight edge  but I can't get it to fit on any spare camshafts I have lying around even with perfect access.  I dare say I could whack it on but my understanding is that it should be a hand fit.  (Were there changes in production tolerances?)

 

Should I bin this one and get another?

 

Thanks again

Morning  Krolroger

 

I'm not really sure what you have going on there. I see what looks like a little spalling inside the cam sprocket hole bore. 

 

Did that sprocket come off the cam fairly easily when you took it apart?  (this might tell us something)

 

I have seen similar wear on a cam sprocket tit before but I just assumed it was from the last installation where it wasn't lined up properly then the sprocket forced on with the retention bolt. (I have only seen one instance).

 

I have seen a few sprockets with the alignment tit squashed & distorted from being bolted tight without proper alignment (never on an original factory install but usually after someone has worked on that area). 

 

Does the sprocket seating area on the cam look OK, smooth,  round, & proper? 

 

If you have a brake cylinder hone you might try a quick (light) lubricated hone of that sprocket bore then do a trial fit without the chain on the sprocket. 

 

You might try heating the sprocket with a heat gun (or in hot oil) then see if it will go on farther.  (caution don't push it all the way on as when it cools you might have trouble getting it back off to put the chain on it). 

 

If heating works then possibly put the chain on it, then line everything up, then heat the sprocket  & slide it on as far as possible. If you are then sure that the  tit is lined up properly with the cam slot then use the bolt to pull the cam gear on (I have had a few cam sprocket bolts break at re-installation so now I usually install new a one just to be sure it won't break in service).

 

 

 

 

[Krolroger]

Morning Dirtrider,

 

Thanks for your advice.

 

Interestingly, the sprocket goes on happily the wrong way round (with the tit at the front) so I assume that some distortion has been introduced into the sprocket by incorrect alignment or tightening.  The seating area on the cam looks fine.

 

Not sure I want to go down the heating route.  I can do some trial fits with a spare camshaft and try filing down any high spots, but it might be simpler to buy a new one for 20 GBP.

 

Cheers and thanks,

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

7 minutes ago, Krolroger said:

Morning Dirtrider,

 

Thanks for your advice.

 

Interestingly, the sprocket goes on happily the wrong way round (with the tit at the front) so I assume that some distortion has been introduced into the sprocket by incorrect alignment or tightening.  The seating area on the cam looks fine.

 

Not sure I want to go down the heating route.  I can do some trial fits with a spare camshaft and try filing down any high spots, but it might be simpler to buy a new one for 20 GBP.

 

Cheers and thanks,

 

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Krolroger said:

Morning Dirtrider,

 

Thanks for your advice.

 

Interestingly, the sprocket goes on happily the wrong way round (with the tit at the front) so I assume that some distortion has been introduced into the sprocket by incorrect alignment or tightening.  The seating area on the cam looks fine.

 

Not sure I want to go down the heating route.  I can do some trial fits with a spare camshaft and try filing down any high spots, but it might be simpler to buy a new one for 20 GBP.

 

Cheers and thanks,

 

 

 

Morning  Krolroger

 

That fitting one way but not the other is telling you something. 

 

Probably not a bad idea to install a new (or good used) sprocket as that one side of the alignment tit is pretty well mangled.

[Krolroger]

Hi Dirtrider,

 

A bit of careful filing removed the high spot that was preventing engagement.

 

I flattened off the mangled edge of the alignment tit but there is now a few thou of radial play which will spell trouble down the line.

 

So, a new one it is.

 

Thanks again,