hall sensor question

[steveg]

on my recently acquired 2000 R1100RT, the same one with the recent brake bleed problem, after sorting out the brakes and new throttle cables, synced the throttles, everything going smooth test ride only went 4 miles and bike sputtered once the shortly after it died and no start, tach was jumping around with the key on and sounded like the fuel pump running, checked the codes with voltmeter came up with hall sensor2. just for the hell of it I tried to start It. it started up and ran fine .can the hall sensors fail intermittent. I'm thinking maybe wires have bad insulation   Thoughts??.

[9Mary7]

They usually work or they don't. I haven't found an intermittent one yet. Have you checked your battery cables for firm, clean attachment? Also the grounding point on the bike.

I usually start there with an intermittent electrical gremlin.....

[Michaelr11]

Looking at Anton’s web site, at the Motronic article you’ll see this.

 

* if you don't start or just very briefly turn the engine, codes 1122 and 1133 will show, which is normal!

 

So, the hall sensor codes are meaningless.  However, if you have never repaired or replaced the wiring for the hall sensor, then it MUST be repaired or replaced.

[steveg]

33 minutes ago, 9Mary7 said:

They usually work or they don't. I haven't found an intermittent one yet. Have you checked your battery cables for firm, clean attachment? Also the grounding point on the bike.

I usually start there with an intermittent electrical gremlin.....

new battery installed by bmw pryer to my purchase, didn't chet but will

[steveg]

30 minutes ago, Michaelr11 said:

Looking at Anton’s web site, at the Motronic article you’ll see this.

 

* if you don't start or just very briefly turn the engine, codes 1122 and 1133 will show, which is normal!

 

So, the hall sensor codes are meaningless.  However, if you have never repaired or replaced the wiring for the hall sensor, then it MUST be repaired or replaced.

thats what I'm thinking, taking it apart now to check. I replaced the wires on my other RT. I bought silicone wires from someone on this site,can't remember who it was

[dirtrider]

11 hours ago, steveg said:

on my recently acquired 2000 R1100RT, the same one with the recent brake bleed problem, after sorting out the brakes and new throttle cables, synced the throttles, everything going smooth test ride only went 4 miles and bike sputtered once the shortly after it died and no start, tach was jumping around with the key on and sounded like the fuel pump running, checked the codes with voltmeter came up with hall sensor2. just for the hell of it I tried to start It. it started up and ran fine .can the hall sensors fail intermittent. I'm thinking maybe wires have bad insulation   Thoughts??.

Morning  steveg

 

They usually don't fail intermittently UNLESS you washed that motorcycle, or rode it in the rain,  prior to the failure.  (did you wash that motorcycle prior to riding?)

 

The HES sensor part itself seldom if ever fails, it is the HES wire pig tail that causes all the issues due to cracked or missing insulation.

 

If the HES wire insulation is deteriorated (probably is on an old 1100 bike) they will usually run without issue as long as the bare wires don't actually touch each other.

 

But get a little moisture on the HES wire pig tail then all bets are off as the moisture causes  cross talk between the bare wire areas & then the engine just quits. 

 

Sometimes they will re-start like nothing happened when the wires dry out & sometimes they won't.  

 

A jumping tac during key-on, or during engine cranking, is usually a solid sign that the HES could  be the problem (at least the HES wiring is a good place to look early on). 

[steveg]

yes I did wash the bike a couple times with the fairing off due to the previous owner riding in some kind of slurry looking stuff and me  me working  on the brake system. I redid the hall wiring on my other RT years ago and remember it being a real P.I.A. so I ordered a new unit from euromotoelectrics, I can't believe the increase in the prices for bmw parts.

Thank you to everyone for your help, you guys are like a lifeline

[Rinkydink]

5 hours ago, steveg said:

yes I did wash the bike a couple times with the fairing off due to the previous owner riding in some kind of slurry looking stuff and me  me working  on the brake system. I redid the hall wiring on my other RT years ago and remember it being a real P.I.A. so I ordered a new unit from euromotoelectrics, I can't believe the increase in the prices for bmw parts.

Thank you to everyone for your help, you guys are like a lifeline

BMW=bring more wallet

[lkchris]

10 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning  steveg

 

They usually don't fail intermittently UNLESS you washed that motorcycle, or rode it in the rain,  prior to the failure.  (did you wash that motorcycle prior to riding?)

 

The HES sensor part itself seldom if ever fails, it is the HES wire pig tail that causes all the issues due to cracked or missing insulation.

 

If the HES wire insulation is deteriorated (probably is on an old 1100 bike) they will usually run without issue as long as the bare wires don't actually touch each other.

 

But get a little moisture on the HES wire pig tail then all bets are off as the moisture causes  cross talk between the bare wire areas & then the engine just quits. 

 

Sometimes they will re-start like nothing happened when the wires dry out & sometimes they won't.  

 

A jumping tac during key-on, or during engine cranking, is usually a solid sign that the HES could  be the problem (at least the HES wiring is a good place to look early on). 

The original poster just purchased his Oilhead, but long-time owners should also know the following:

 

At the same time Oilheads were first on the drawing board, new Euro regulations were passed requiring auto parts be biodegradable.

 

This meant for Oilheads that the materials traditionally used to make wiring harnesses, mostly the insulation, were changed, and now that these bikes are 15-25 years old lots of wiring harness degradation is occurring.  Rubber brake hoses, too, it appears.  Inspection will reveal lots of this, especially in locations where a harness is secured by a cable tie.  The outer sheathing will be split and it's fairly likely the wires inside will display insulation deterioration.  Of course it's the HES that strands you,  but it's not the only problem.

 

As designers had more years they developed new solutions, and the next generation bikes came with CANBus electrical systems, which significantly reduces the amount of wiring required.  Also, you can note in a new bike showroom that cable ties may have been replaced with rubber straps, too.  The latest bikes all have metal braid wrapped teflon brake hoses, too.

 

My R1100S has the HES replaced proactively by my dealer, and I've replaced both handlebar switch sets, securing the harnesses with the new rubber straps rather than cable ties.  I've resecured some original wiring with the straps as well.  All Spiegler hydraulic lines now, too

 

PS: Perhaps of some interest, I have an old Porsche Boxster from this era and found the ability to purchase a complete under dash wiring harness on eBay inexpensively.  The thing must weight at least 100 pounds---this being another reason for reducing amount of wiring by changing to CANBus.  The other thing is is that nearly every wire in the harness is the equivalent of maybe 28 gauge, something never seen in earlier days.  Less in landfills, less weight.

 

Modern problems.

[dirtrider]

36 minutes ago, lkchris said:

The original poster just purchased his Oilhead, but long-time owners should also know the following:

 

At the same time Oilheads were first on the drawing board, new Euro regulations were passed requiring auto parts be biodegradable.

 

This meant for Oilheads that the materials traditionally used to make wiring harnesses, mostly the insulation, were changed, and now that these bikes are 15-25 years old lots of wiring harness degradation is occurring.  Rubber brake hoses, too, it appears.  Inspection will reveal lots of this, especially in locations where a harness is secured by a cable tie.  The outer sheathing will be split and it's fairly likely the wires inside will display insulation deterioration.  Of course it's the HES that strands you,  but it's not the only problem.

 

As designers had more years they developed new solutions, and the next generation bikes came with CANBus electrical systems, which significantly reduces the amount of wiring required.  Also, you can note in a new bike showroom that cable ties may have been replaced with rubber straps, too.  The latest bikes all have metal braid wrapped teflon brake hoses, too.

 

My R1100S has the HES replaced proactively by my dealer, and I've replaced both handlebar switch sets, securing the harnesses with the new rubber straps rather than cable ties.  I've resecured some original wiring with the straps as well.  All Spiegler hydraulic lines now, too

 

PS: Perhaps of some interest, I have an old Porsche Boxster from this era and found the ability to purchase a complete under dash wiring harness on eBay inexpensively.  The thing must weight at least 100 pounds---this being another reason for reducing amount of wiring by changing to CANBus.  The other thing is is that nearly every wire in the harness is the equivalent of maybe 28 gauge, something never seen in earlier days.  Less in landfills, less weight.

 

Modern problems.

Evening Larry 

 

Not just BMW or Euro, American auto companies used  soy-based wiring  harness insulation for a number of years on some vehicles (cheaper & more environmentally  friendly). Held  up OK as far a degradation went but  guess what mice like to eat. 

[Ian m]

My 1997 R1100RT was running fine until April 2020 approximately 4 miles then suddenly cut out, this has happened a few times and noticed when it reached 5 bar it would die, tried starting it but would misfire. Left it for half an hour would start when cold,  I've replaced the HES  the coil, HT leads and spark plugs also fuel filter, can hear fuel pump working  take it for a run still cuts out after 5 bar. Mechanic tested oil switch,side stand switch, he heated matronic box then started the bike. Tested the injectors left the bike idling then 3 bar cuts out, when cold it starts up      puzzled

Could someone think of something that's missed please

 

I bought this RT 3 years ago with only 40,000 miles after it been left outside for over 3 years without running. Now has a few thousand added on since then.

Many thanks

 

[dirtrider]

11 hours ago, Ian m said:

My 1997 R1100RT was running fine until April 2020 approximately 4 miles then suddenly cut out, this has happened a few times and noticed when it reached 5 bar it would die, tried starting it but would misfire. Left it for half an hour would start when cold,  I've replaced the HES  the coil, HT leads and spark plugs also fuel filter, can hear fuel pump working  take it for a run still cuts out after 5 bar. Mechanic tested oil switch,side stand switch, he heated matronic box then started the bike. Tested the injectors left the bike idling then 3 bar cuts out, when cold it starts up      puzzled

Could someone think of something that's missed please

 

I bought this RT 3 years ago with only 40,000 miles after it been left outside for over 3 years without running. Now has a few thousand added on since then.

Many thanks

 

Morning  Ian m

 

You need to start a new thread on YOUR problem (you can paste the very same thing that you posted above). 

 

You have posted YOUR problem on the end of someone else's  thread so if we answer it here we would be hijacking the original thread on steveg's motorcycle problem.

[Paul De]

My '99 RT has never had the HES pigtail replaced.  So far it has run fine rain or shine...but I feel like I'm play Russian Roulette and each year am adding another bullet to the cylinder.  So far it has been spin and click.

[Paul De]

On 6/8/2020 at 5:18 PM, dirtrider said:

Not just BMW or Euro, American auto companies used  soy-based wiring  harness insulation for a number of years on some vehicles (cheaper & more environmentally  friendly). Held  up OK as far a degradation went but  guess what mice like to eat. 

Ahh-ha, so that solves an ancient history issue I had when my '99RT was just a year old.  Fired it up one day to a dead left cylinder and on inspection found that the wires to the fuel injector have been chewed through.  Fixed that easy enough, but was curious why out of the blue a mouse or, ugh other larger rodent, chose to eat those wires.  My wife used to keep her bird food in the garage close to where I parked the bike, so I moved that stuff to a galvanized trash can outside the garage to not attract whatever ate the injector wires into the garage.  

 

But I digress and back to the HES question, is there a quality 3rd party kit available, or do I have to go OEM with the same crappy insulation?

[Ian m]

2 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning  Ian m

 

You need to start a new thread on YOUR problem (you can paste the very same thing that you posted above). 

 

You have posted YOUR problem on the end of someone else's  thread so if we answer it here we would be hijacking the original thread on steveg's motorcycle problem.

Thanks, I realized that afterwards,and have now reposted properly .