Games we play

[Chip]

I read a very cool street riding article several years ago called, "The Pace" by Nick Ienatsch. You can read the original article at this link. It's a great game to play when you're riding with several friends.

 

The game is excellent if you want to do "spirited" riding safely and when the group you're riding with is made up of different levels of riders.

 

There are three (3) important rules.

1. No brakes allowed - if you touch your brakes, it's a "crash" and you go to the back of the pack. This is a slight modification from Nick but it sure keeps you from going into corners too "hot."

 

2. You must stay in your lane (even if it's a 4-lane road and/or the road is clear - if you touch a line, it's a crash and you go to the back of the pack.

 

3. You can accelerate in the corners but once you're out of the turn, and your bike straightens up, you have to slow down and let everyone behind you catch up - This keeps less skilled riders (especially if they're young)from taking chances as they try to keep up. After all, anyone can go fast in a straight line...

 

If this sounds like fun to you, please...get the article, read it, and ride safely.

 

Disclaimer

Of course, if you want to race...get on a track. Please don't endanger the oncoming motorcycle while you're pushing your limits on a public road.

[steveknapp]

if you touch your brakes, it's a "crash" and you go to the back of the pack. This is a slight modification from Nick but it sure keeps you from going into corners too "hot."

 

Why wouldn't I want to use the brakes?

[bobiverson]

I know I'll probably get pounced-on for this, but what the hell...

 

Personally, this is why I avoid group riding. To me, it's almost ALWAYS about games of some sort. Regardless of how many times, and how many people, profess the "ride your own ride" mentality, I don't think this is ever the reality of the situation.

 

There is always a dynamic of the pack, and I have yet to see it not change (in at least some slight way) the judgment and behaviors of the riders in the group. Proficient riders may slow down, and less-skilled riders may try to keep up. Even if the "ride your own ride" mantra is adhered to for the first 4 hours, eventually the patience of the proficient riders begins to wear thin, and the pressure on the less-skilled riders grows. That's just the nature of a group ride.

 

Personally, I have to question the whole "don't touch your brakes" thing, but more importantly, the "send you back to the rear of the pack" thing as a perceived punishment. Obviously, the pressure on all the riders is to be in the front of the pack, and the dynamic is that all riders are riding at the same skill level and that all should be able to control their bikes in the same manner. This is never the case.

 

To me, there are enough obstacles, dangers, and pick-up trucks that want to T-bone me already out there -- I elect not to participate in the added pressures and mentality of group rides. Yes, I am missing the camaraderie that goes along with it, but what I gain is the solitude that I wish to pursue anyway, with the added bonus that, when I am alone, I can be certain that I am "riding my own ride."

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Oh, I don't know. Sometimes the 'pace' thing makes for a great ride. In fact, I prefer it whether riding solo or in a group. Straight line acceleration bores me after years of drag racing and I kinda like setting cornering speeds way early so that I don't have to touch the brakes before entry. I even like the back of the pack. I mostly had to learn to like it, I'm slow.

 

Yeah, the faster riders will have to let off a little steam after awhile, right Larry? but I don't see the pressure to keep up as being a big deal. There is a lot to learn by chasing a good rider up a twisty or even a curvy road. You can learn that your limits are not necessarily those of the bikes, for example. I think I learned more about the Riding Smart thing following David for about 20 miles at a leisurly pace on the Natchez Trace Parkway than I did through most of the day as I was mostly trying too hard to get a mental handle on the techniques and not really working on my riding till it was just about over. Watching David and mimicing his body movements brought it all into perspective for me.

 

I'll do a lot of the pace type stuff when riding solo as well. Up on the Blue Ridge Parkway, rather than bomb the sweepers and risk a ticket, I'll try to average 50 without ever going over 55, using the GPS as a referee. No brakes the whole time. It really is a fun exercise.

[Shawnee Bill]

What Ed said!

 

If you gotta race, find a track and get it on. Hammer down and hard braking. Get a dirt bike and enter a local motocross, you won't believe how much fun it is at the back of the beginners class. Actually not much fun there but a little practice will get you up to where the fun is.

And crashing rarely hurts.

 

Read "The Pace" again and practice that on public highways, you can get pretty quick riding the pace.

[tallman]

Oh, I don't know. Sometimes the 'pace' thing makes for a great ride. In fact, I prefer it whether riding solo or in a group. Straight line acceleration bores me after years of drag racing and I kinda like setting cornering speeds way early so that I don't have to touch the brakes before entry. I even like the back of the pack. I mostly had to learn to like it, I'm slow.

Spoken like a man who can make a living walking into pool halls.

"Anyone up for a game of nine ball" .

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Tim.

Did you ever encounter Bucktooth? Now that was a master. He could woof at the best players in the world and whine about being a feeble old man at the same time. Damon Runyon would have thought he dies and wound up in one of his own novels had he ever been in a few of the pool halls I frequented back in the day.

[Chip]

Why wouldn't I want to use the brakes?

 

Approaching a corner, knowing that you're not going to use your brakes, tends to keep your speed down to a very manageable level; which is the point on public highways. At least it is for me...

 

Also, as some folks have indicated, it's a lot of fun riding in the twisties without using your brakes. You get the thrill from high rpm control (and noise) without the increased risk (and margin of error) of grabbing a handful of brakes as you set up the turn. As Forrest Gump said, "one less thing."

[DogGone]

I'll admit I didn't read the article, but the description sounds like the only place you can pass is in the corners while concentrating on staying in your lane and not using the brakes.

 

I don't care how good someone thinks they are, I don't want them riding like that around me. Or did I misunderstand the concept?

 

pete

[leikam]

To my eye, making The Pace as described by Nick into a game played by a group of riders with rules and penalties encourages a fundamentally different goal. While I enjoy riding The Pace, I would not consider playing the game you've described on the street.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Pete,

Go read the article. What you are describing is really the antithesis of the 'Pace'.

[Voodoo]

The Pace is a great article and great mental challenge to pursue as well. If you do it right, it's not about any form of cpmeptition other than improving your skill.

 

The no brakes thing handles two major issues. First, many unskilled riders use hard straight line acceleration and then hard braking into a corner to make up for lack of skill in the corners. Not using your barkes eliminates that right away and gets you to focus on an appropriate entry speed way before the corner starts and then using your cornering and corner exit skill to maintain the desired pace.

 

Also, it really forces you to raise your concentration in both level and distance. You now have to really plan way ahead for all inputs and make sure each and every one of them is as smooth as possible.

 

It's a great mental practice whether you're solo or in a group. The only competition is about skill, not speed - which is how it should be IMHO.

 

There have been many discussions about it on the DB, for example, here and here.

 

Fluid Brilliance.

[Carl_T]

On our group rides we ride close to the description of the pace.

 

As others have also pointed out, I believe your modifications to the pace of making it a game and sending to the back of the line, to be potentially negative and other than an improvement on the original.

 

In addition the article does not mention being unable to use the brakes to set your corner speed. It hints that may be a byproduct, rather than a requirement, and gives a clear description for brake use.

 

We do groups a little differently than you describe, on our rides everyone gets a sheet on group guidelines along with a copy of the pace to read before the get together. We set 3-4 seconds as a minimum following distance in single lane, low population twisties, and encourage even further following distances. That is to help riders avoid getting sucked into a turn too fast by a quicker rider ahead of them, down play temptations to competition, and help avoid bike-to-bike accidents when a rider ahead stops unexpectedly.

 

That is also to help avoid, riders trying too hard to keep up. We agree to make sure the rider following us successfully makes every turn off within the route, even if we have to stop and wait in a safe but visible place to do so (so far no one has had to stop and wait). That way no one need fear separation from the group if they fall back riding their own ride. Additionally we slow enough in the straights to keep the rider behind in the mirror at least on long straights. That helps self regulate group speeds and reduces keep up pressures. The group is not knit tight with close following distances on the road, so there is no need to psychologically remain one of the "tight knit pack."

 

Another thing we have not had trouble with doing, is to agree to a ban on passing within the group. Slower riders are encouraged to line up near the back and faster ones near the front at the start. If you end up wanting to ride a bit quicker than the rider ahead, you drop back more on the straights so you can still enjoy the turns, and ask to ride ahead of them at the next rest stop.

 

We attempt to downplay natural competitive natures and set things up more like riding solo, yet still within the group while enjoying each others company at rest stops which all participate in. Rest stops every hour to hour and a half, tend to reform the group again as well.

 

When we get more into congested areas or on main highways with traffic, we default to 2 sec. following distances, and staggered formation where appropriate. We don't look for fun cornering in those areas, and hold that off until we can use the 3-4 second ++ single file formation.

 

So far at least, it has worked well for us with everyone seeming to enjoy themselves.

 

I just feel an aversion to the idea of making the group street riding activity into a game with penalties.

[Voodoo]

Carl,

 

That sounds like it works well for your group, and that's great. Personally, I would never take part in a group ride that had that many rules. I'd be too scared that worrying about all those rules would take my brain away from the ride itself.

 

My group rides tend to have 2 rules. 1. Everyone knows where we're going and how to get there. 2. If there is ever contact between two riders, regardless of what actually happened, it's the following rider's fault. Those 2 rules pretty much free me up to enjoy the ride. (That and the fact that I tend not to ride with people I don't know).

 

I like The Pace because it is just as much a personal challenge for my riding than it is guidelines for a group.

 

BTW, if you get a chance, fill out a bit more in your profile so we can get to know you a bit better!

[Chip]

I'll admit I didn't read the article, but the description sounds like the only place you can pass is in the corners while concentrating on staying in your lane and not using the brakes

 

This isn't about passing...it's about riding spirited and safely.

 

*If* you're riding in a group, and *if* you want to ride fast at times, and *if* you want to ride safely, the pace is a fun game to play. Heck, when I'm riding solo, I try to adhere to the no brake rule and no touching the line rule...I will admit to accelerating on the straights at times but only when I'm by myself.

 

Please...read the article. Nick describes the pace much better than I did.

[Carl_T]

BTW, if you get a chance, fill out a bit more in your profile so we can get to know you a bit better!

 

My apologies David, it’s done now.

 

That sounds like it works well for your group, and that's great. Personally, I would never take part in a group ride that had that many rules.

 

 

Not really so many, as my over wordy writing makes it sound (just trying to be clear). Really there are only 4 important rules to memorize which is easy enough.

 

1. Ride your own ride, go your own pace

2. Follow at 3 or MORE seconds in the twisties

3. Make sure the rider behind you sees you at turn offs in the route, and makes the turn

4. Don’t pass during the ride switch at a rest stop instead

 

Other things on the ride will be mentioned or supplied for reading. However, they either don’t need to be memorized or are down to common sense group convention that can be picked up by what the first couple of riders up front (who have ridden together before) are doing. The sweep is always someone experienced that has ridden with the core group before also.

 

The leader doesn’t direct the group military style or anything like that, I apologize if my writing gave that sort of impression.

 

The rules and type of ride I described is not what we do when 2-3 friends are out riding together that know each other’s riding.

 

This is what we do on a Sport Touring event ride, when people from other STates unknown to us are joining in. If the group gets to be over 9 bikes or so (not written in stone) we like to divide into sub groups so as to avoid being a long train on the road (I’m personally real happy when there is 6 or less).

 

Couples often show up riding 2 up. The route can be anything from 250mi. + up over previously chosen roads and everyone cannot always know specifically where we are going, not even with route sheets, maps, and GPS. Often the only person to ride those roads before is the leader of the ride, the sweep if available, and rarely but sometimes no one at all.

 

We like to meet up at rest stops and lunch to take photos and BS a bit, so we prefer the group stay together in the simplest most reliable manner possible without shuffling the riding lineup (which is, those interested in cornering quicker up front).

 

The skill levels of riders joining the group can vary also, as well as there being a lack of familiarity with each other’s moves/tendencies when you have at least a few new riders added to the group. That's using roads previously un-traveled by many, on an unfamiliar route, in whatever environmental conditions we are dealt. So, we base the ride on the spirit of the pace, but have some additional extra rules in an effort to reduce problems that could result from all of the above.

 

Left completely to their own devices with passing and following distances open to individual choice, a rider new to the group has the outside potential of being the type of rider who could truly muck up everyone’s day big time. Bike to bike contact is no joke, nor is getting sucked into a turn too fast by a better rider due to ego clouding judgment, or the new guy deciding he wants to race you and pass you mid turn on a blind sweeper.

 

At least so far no one has complained about there being too much information to remember. Even with our system of dealing with the variables, I only attend 2 or 3 of these a year. I enjoy the camaraderie a great deal, but don’t want to up the exposure beyond that number right now.

[Voodoo]

Thanks Carl. That helps a lot and your description sounds a bit more enjoyable than before.

 

I guess the only thing that I still disagree with is the passing. I've always found it to be too irritating (to the point that it sometimes spoils a ride) to have to sit behind someone that is riding at a much different pace than you're comfortable with. So, passing is always encouraged as long as my Rule #2 is deeply ingrained in the passing rider.

 

And welcome to the DB, by the way!

[Carl_T]

Thanks for the welcome David .

 

I do understand not passing can get frustrating. I guess I'm an old woman about it, but I do get nervous about new riders (to us) and passing. It has a minor potential for ego problems to spontaneously rear their heads on the road while two bikes are in close proximity to each other, if just one rider happens to have poor emotional judgment.

 

Perhaps it is over-control, but it makes a few of us feel more comfortable taking in new riders with us at these events and simplifies the variables some.

 

We do suggest a faster rider unhappy with the guys pace ahead, drop back more in the straights so they can at least do the turns close to their own speed before catching up to minimum following distance. That's only until they get an opportunity to ask to move ahead at the next stop.

 

It does on occasion constrain some of us to be a little more laid back in order to enjoy the company of the others. It is usually quite a good time with a mix of periods of enjoyable riding, some small sightseeing, and some good variety in company.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

I really don't mind being passed that much if I know the guys I'm riding with. I would prefer they do so on the straights. Although a friendly stuff won't really get me all that upset.

 

A number of the people I ride with are track veterans and they know how to maintain a line and when it is safe to pass. Actually it's a kinda backhanded compliment that they think enough of my riding that they are willing to pass.

[Voodoo]

Actually it's a kinda backhanded compliment that they think enough of my riding that they are willing to pass.

 

 

Oh Ed, I'd pass you anytime!

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Can't leave any doors open around here, dangit.

 

For those of you who don't know him or haven't ridden with him, he left out a word.

 

Oh Ed, I CAN pass you anytime!

 

One of the better riders I have had the pleasure of chasing.

[steveknapp]

Approaching a corner, knowing that you're not going to use your brakes, tends to keep your speed down to a very manageable level; which is the point on public highways. At least it is for me...

 

Depends on how much engine braking you've got I guess. Bikes with more would be more fun than say my Buell which has none.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

No engine braking to be had from a 1200cc twin? Say it ain't so. Or does the Buell come with a slipper clutch?

[steveknapp]

I think it's part of the EFI. But there isn't much engine braking to be had at times, espically at lower RPMs (<4k). Took some getting used to, and a few corners taken too hot.

 

I've grown used to using the brakes. I was shocked at how bad my ability to smoothly get in/out of the brakes is/was. It's a whole new skill, not unlike downshifting/blipping the throttle while on the brakes.

 

Which is why I'm pondering if it's really smart to avoid these skills. Even if you prefer not to need it, it's like anything else, might come in handy. And I don't like the rules around it, if I need a bit of brake to safely enter a corner, it's not a "Crash". It's controlling my bike.

 

I do like the smoothness and relaxed nature of not needing to change speed much period, engine braking or brake braking.

 

Just thinking out loud more than anything...

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Funny that, I worked/work at doing nearly the opposite. Must be from all the years of riding airhead which squat so bad under trailing throttle/braking. The fight involves working agianst giving the brakes that little reassuring squeeze just before corner entry. I really like being on the throttle to at least the neutral point either just prior to or at the moment of turn in. It is really hard to do on unfamiliar roads but I prefer to adjust my speed upward rather than downward hence my sometimes slow entries.

 

The other component of that is really another game I play. I love to see how far I can fight my instinct to turn in. Push the corner entry later and later, meanwhile peering as deeply into the turn as I can see. It bites me once in awhile when there is a decreasing radius around past my vision as it does promote a little more agressive turn in and consequent increase in lean angle. Recently acauired skills in re Riding Smart having given me a better adjustment technique.

 

Of course, all of this is rusty as all get out as the last couple of thousand miles have all been either in Florda or on freeways (same difference) so they only time I get to play at all is the occasional tasty off/on ramp.

[Quint]

I'm with you Ed. I like giving the front brake a little squeeze before turning in, although my riding buddy (who ain't no slouch) loves to lead and I RARELY see his brake light (maybe he's disconnected it!).

 

There is actually a tiny bit of physics at work with lightly applying front brakes before turn in (although less pronounced with an RT than a bike with conventional telescopic forks). When you brake, the front dives slightly (which has the effect of making the bike stand up). Coupled with counter-steering and the return of telelever to a more "up" position when you release the brake, this will have the effect of helping the bike fall into the turn. Then, easing on the gas when getting to the apex causes rear paralever squat, helping the bike tighten it's line mid-corner. It helps you get into, and around, the corner a bit quicker.

 

But then again, what the hell whould I know?!!

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Quint,

Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm more like your buddy, very rarely will I brake just before or during turn in. I prefer to already have my entrance speed set going to neutral throttle as I turn in and actually, if I have judged it all right, accelerating towards and through the apex winding on more throttle as the turn opens up. That's why a late, decreasing radius can sometimes bite me.

 

It is not super efficient but, I don't often enough ride on race tracks where other techniques would be more appropriate. My declining visual acuity has forced me into this pattern as change in focal distance is becoming more and more difficult. Besides, with the power of the Blackbird at my disposal, any small differential in entrance speed can be made up for from the apex to the exit.

[steveknapp]

I'm more like your buddy, very rarely will I brake just before or during turn in.

 

I remember that from ridingsmart.