Final Drive alternate fill point

[RecentConvert]

Just in case a mistake is made.

 

So lets say the fill plug in the final drive was overtightened at the dealer to the point of stripping the head when removal was attempted.  Getting the plug out is now highly problematic.  I am not drilling into the final drive plug and risking leaving metal shavings inside.

 

It is a bit more work but the FD can be refilled with oil through the antilock brake sensor port.  Thanks to dirtrider for confirming this alternate fill point on the wethead FD.   

 

Now I need to remember to change the FD oil each tire change!  (7000 +- miles)






 

[Pappy35]

I have a 100cc syringe with a thin flex hose attached that I use to refill the FD. I guess it would work through either the fill port or the ABS sensor mount. THanks for making me think of that just in case I might need it one day.

[strataj]

One rule I have is always be sure you can fill before you drain.  Good to see you too are thinking that way. 

[Cap]

10 hours ago, RecentConvert said:

...So lets say the fill plug in the final drive was overtightened at the dealer to the point of stripping the head when removal was attempted.  ...

 

Sounds like you are speaking from experience.  If it were me, I would use something like an easy-out to remove the stripped fill plug.  

[dirtrider]

8 hours ago, Cap said:

 

Sounds like you are speaking from experience.  If it were me, I would use something like an easy-out to remove the stripped fill plug.  

 

Morning Cap

 

Easy-Outs are mis-named they should really be called "easily-broken-off". If the plug won't come loose using a proper fitting large torx driver (or large hex driver)  then why would a smaller more brittle easy-out break it loose?

 

Once the hardened easy-out breaks off in the part then you have real problems. 

 

The other downside to an easy out is the need to drill through the broken plug & that puts metal shavings into the interior of the final drive (this can be very detrimental to the bearings as it is about impossible to get ALL those metal shavings out).

 

Easy-out's work great if whatever you are removing is already loose but a person just needs a way to  grab it & spin it out. If the threaded part is already tight then using an easy-out will expand it & make it even tighter in the hole. 

 

There are ways to remove stripped drain or fill plugs but an easy out probably shouldn't be on the tool  list. 

 

 

 

[lkraus]

Sounds like it's time to order a new plug for the next oil change (and maybe file a complaint at the dealer).

 

 A small chisel carefully tapped against the rim of the plug head will probably get the old plug loose.

Sort of like this,  though I'd probably start the chisel on the face/rim corner of the plug at a 45º angle.  That reduces the rotational force a bit but concentrates the force to dig in and not skate off into the FD.

 

[LAF]

This is the answer, pretty easy to do.  Would NEVER drill it out and see no need.  As Larry shows pretty simply and will work the best.

[Cap]

2 hours ago, dirtrider said:

... why would a smaller more brittle easy-out break it loose?...

 

Hey DR, I think the answer is that "it depends on why it stripped in the first place."  I think the most common reason would be that an incorrect tool was used on it -- either a hex key in a torx head, or perhaps vice versa.  Larry's image above is a great depiction of the result.  In that case, the plug is probably not overly tight, and will likely come out with some persuasion.  I agree that drilling all the way through the plug is a bad idea.  I've had good luck on rare occasions using a tool that looks like a left-handed drill bit.  The tool bites the stripped cavity without needing to drill, as long as you have the right sized tool.  I think of that tool as an "easy out" although I might be using that name improperly.

 

And yes, the tool is hard and brittle, and care must be exercised not to apply bending force when turning it.

[dirtrider]

Morning__

 

Best way that usually works for me  is similar to what Larry showed, I just don't like using a chisel as a little slip with the chisel or angle hit with a hammer can allow the chisel to slip off the edge & damage the housing. The chisel method is also difficult if the plug is recessed, the hole & punch will even work with a somewhat recessed plug. 

 

My preferred method it to drill a small hole part way into the plug rim about half way between the inner & outer edges of the rim (just a shallow hole is needed), then use an angle center punch in that hole. They usually break free pretty easily, if they don't come loose with a couple of good hits I then use a pin-point torch in the center hole of the plug then allow to cool just a bit & they usually pop free easily with that  angled punch.  

 

Using the  hole & angle punch  method the plug is usually re-usable by re-installing the plug & using the punch at the reverse angle to tap it tight.  (at least usable until you can buy a new plug). 

 

I have even had stuck plugs & bolts break loose using the hole in the rim method & a snap punch (no hammer needed). 

[alegerlotz]

59 minutes ago, Cap said:

 

Hey DR, I think the answer is that "it depends on why it stripped in the first place."  I think the most common reason would be that an incorrect tool was used on it -- either a hex key in a torx head, or perhaps vice versa.  Larry's image above is a great depiction of the result.  In that case, the plug is probably not overly tight, and will likely come out with some persuasion.  I agree that drilling all the way through the plug is a bad idea.  I've had good luck on rare occasions using a tool that looks like a left-handed drill bit.  The tool bites the stripped cavity without needing to drill, as long as you have the right sized tool.  I think of that tool as an "easy out" although I might be using that name improperly.

 

And yes, the tool is hard and brittle, and care must be exercised not to apply bending force when turning it.

 

 

My understanding of the wethead final drives is that the drain plug and fill plug are similar looking but different in two ways:

 

1. The tool used on them - one is an allen head and one is a torx
2. The thread pitch

 

What probably happened it both the wrong tool was used and the wrong plug was placed in the wrong hole at some point, compromising the threads.  Do you know the condition of the drain plug?  Hopefully it doesn't have the same situation.

 

Even when the plug comes out of there, you may have an issue where you need to clean up the threads.

[dirtrider]

8 minutes ago, alegerlotz said:

 

 

My understanding of the wethead final drives is that the drain plug and fill plug are similar looking but different in two ways:

 

1. The tool used on them - one is an allen head and one is a torx
2. The thread pitch

 

What probably happened it both the wrong tool was used and the wrong plug was placed in the wrong hole at some point, compromising the threads.  Do you know the condition of the drain plug?  Hopefully it doesn't have the same situation.

 

Even when the plug comes out of there, you may have an issue where you need to clean up the threads.

 

Afternoon  alegerlotz

 

The plugs are not really similar looking as the fill plug is a standard looking flat like flanged plug & the drain plug has a longer extended barrel with the sealing surface being lower below the head. 

 

Both  plugs are 12mm with the fill plug being 12x1.5 thread & the drain plug being 12x1.0 thread. The fill plug is (usually) a hex & the drain plug is (usually) a torx. I'm not sure that the larger  fill plug head will even fit in the drain plug recessed hole. 

 

If the drain plug was somehow incorrectly threaded into the fill plug hole I doubt that it could be forced all the way in.  But even if it could, due to the longer plug head on the drain plug, the head should stick out far enough to get a vise grips on it to remove it.

[bacos]

Waking up an old thread...

 

So, whoever changed the oil last time had no idea what a crush washer was, and used a regular washer. They did this on the engine oil drain plug, but I got that one out. I'm sure they used one on the final drive drain, I just haven't tried it yet.

 

The final drive fill plug was already kinda buggered from rust. Then they managed to jam it in pretty good - presumably it didn't seal well so the obvious answer was "make it tighter"; it's what they did with the engine oil drain. So now it's stripped, and I know it's overtightened.

 

I tried a pipe wrench (a 12" actually fit) but all that did was dig big claw marks in the plug.

 

I tried the DR method but all that achieved was creating a trench in the plug. It's like the plug is really soft somehow. Of course, the final drive was hot at the time (isn't that when you change the oil?).. So, I'm already thinking "wait until it's cool" - ? Or I need to drill deeper / most of the way through to get a really good bite? Or ....heat and freeze spray? (Dammit I was just at HF - oh wait I do have a pinpoint butane torch, I just need butane...)

 

I'm tempted to try cutting a slot across the face with a hacksaw and using the equiv of a large flatblade screwdriver. that feels brutal, though.

 

 

Or forget about it, measure carefully, and fill through the ABS hole... feels wrong though.

[bacos]

(I did manage to take the bike out for a ride today, first time in maybe 3 weeks after all this wrenching. It actually runs and handles really nicely. It _wants_ to be a great bike. If I can just help it past its years of neglect... :(  )