Help, Blue smoke on start-up

[Alain_Labelle]

Hello,

 

My 2001 R1150RT (62 000 kilometers) is blowing blue smoke on cold start-up ( 10 celsius or 50 farenheit) could it be worn valves guides or cylinders rings ? It is worst when the bike is on the side stand. This problem tends to go away when the temperature is milder...

 

thanks

[RFW]

Hello,

 

My 2001 R1150RT (62 000 kilometers) is blowing blue smoke on cold start-up ( 10 celsius or 50 farenheit) could it be worn valves guides or cylinders rings ? It is worst when the bike is on the side stand. This problem tends to go away when the temperature is milder...

It is a well known thing that when any bike with horizontal cylinders is parked on the side stand, you can ger smoke on start up. They all do that to some degree or other.

 

The real question is, how long does it take for the oil level to drop perceptably? If it is not actually consuming any significant amount of oil, then it's not a problem.

 

Bob.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

It may be well known but it doesn't actually happen very much at all. I have been parking my bikes on the side stand for lots of years and with the exception of a couple of early K bikes it has never been a problem.

 

At 62,000 kilometers, it is doubtful that either the rings or the valve guides have worn enough to cause this and neither would go away with such small differences in temperature.

 

If you are sure it's oil smoke and not water vapor condensing in the cooler air, I would take it to the dealer quickly and have him look at it as, long term, it could damage your catalytic converter.

 

The most likely culprit, IMHO, is probably a valve stem oil seal. These are simple to change, although you do need a proper seal driver to install them. Your dealer will have those and the tool as well.

[DEF]

Have you removed your carbon canister (if so equipped) or CAT?

[bmwscoot]

Have you removed your carbon canister (if so equipped) or CAT?

 

huh?

 

Anyway, Alain...

 

I had some airheads, and early K-Bikes with the smoke on start up (after on side stand)...but never had that problem with either of the two oilheads I had owned.

 

I'd listen to wise old grumpy Ed, and have a dealer check...

[Les is more]

Dennis,

 

Let's avoid the hijacks. If you want to parry with Ed some more please use the Private Mail function.

 

Thanks.

[DEF]

Hello,

 

My 2001 R1150RT (62 000 kilometers) is blowing blue smoke on cold start-up ( 10 celsius or 50 farenheit) could it be worn valves guides or cylinders rings ? It is worst when the bike is on the side stand. This problem tends to go away when the temperature is milder...

 

thanks

 

Alain,

 

Tell us more....what oil do you use? Oil change intervals, has the bike sat up over winter? Oilheads with your mileage typically don't smoke at startup unless there are circumstances or they have been left on the side stand for a loooooong time.

 

If your engine continues to smoke at cold start, you may have carbon buildup in the engine, rings in particular. If the condition persists, I have used Rislone oil additive to remove coked up deposits, restoring oil control.

 

Oilhead cylinders simply do not wear out in your short mileage (they are plated with some very hard stuff and last for 100,000 miles minimim.

 

Ed, what's your take? You think valve stem seals? These seals are pretty robust yes? Should he check plugs and determine if it one cylinder only?

[Alain_Labelle]

Hello DEF,

 

I use 20w50 dino oil, normaly change it at each 4 000 Kilometers. The bike was on center stand all winter, changed the oil and filter before start-up 2 weeks ago.

 

I had this problem last year in spring and fall on a couple of cold mornings (Canada hey!) but it vanished when the temperature was warm. But this week when I left the bike on the side stand for the night I had oil smoke again on cold start-up.

 

I wouldnt be suprise that it is valve seal or as you say even a carbon deposit. I dont particularely ride on a (high rev mode) with this bike, so carbon build-up could have occured. Since I didn't had the chance yet to make a long ride this year, the bike may be still gummed from it's winter sleep

 

 

As suggested I will have the seals and plugs checked and will try Rislone oil additive. How much do you normally have to add ?

 

Thanks

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Alain,

 

Oil smoke on startup won't go away with something as simple as a few degrees of warmer temperature. The smoke you are seeing is likely nothing more than water vapor. Despite a lot of screeching by enviornmentalists, note the mental, a goodly part of exhaust gases is water vapor. It leaves your combustion chamber at pretty high temperature and the water part, being eager to return to its natural, liquid state, quickly condenses in your cold exhaust system. Then, as the entire system warms, it returns to its vaporous state. Cooler air outside the system causes it to again condense and become visible as "smoke". It may even smell like oil due to other stuff lining your exhaust, it is probably nothing more than that.

 

Your description of the problem, there at sub 50F temps and gone above that pretty much confirms it. No different from your breath being visible on cooler mornings, although, hopefully, yours smells better.

 

Seriously, were there a mechanical problem with the engine, including the valve stem oil seals I mentioned, the vapor would persist and be visible without regard to temperature.

[DEF]

Hello DEF,

 

I use 20w50 dino oil, normaly change it at each 4 000 Kilometers. The bike was on center stand all winter, changed the oil and filter before start-up 2 weeks ago.

 

I had this problem last year in spring and fall on a couple of cold mornings (Canada hey!) but it vanished when the temperature was warm. But this week when I left the bike on the side stand for the night I had oil smoke again on cold start-up.

 

I wouldnt be suprise that it is valve seal or as you say even a carbon deposit. I dont particularely ride on a (high rev mode) with this bike, so carbon build-up could have occured. Since I didn't had the chance yet to make a long ride this year, the bike may be still gummed from it's winter sleep

 

 

As suggested I will have the seals and plugs checked and will try Rislone oil additive. How much do you normally have to add ?

 

Thanks

 

Alain,

 

I think ShovelStrokeEd may have it nailed....here in Houston, TX, I never see anything coming out of my exhaust and so, am not a good judge of the smoke you see. But, after a long layup (or even a short one when put away hot in a cold climate), steam is a fact of life at next startup.

 

A dose of Rislone won't hurt. I would add it about 500 miles before you plan your next oil/filter change. As for the amount, 500 mL would be about right but remember, do not overfill your crankcase.

 

Also, you may want to go to an oil with very high TBN score (15 and up)...given the weather conditions and the condensate in your engine, you could be developing acids in the oil. High TBN score will eliminate the concerns for acid formation.

 

Ed, what do you think?

[BMT]

There's no way on earth that this bike needs oil additives, ever. Changing oil at 4000kms (~2500 miles)? Ridiculous. The only possible justification is if the bike only does 4000 kms a year and the oil is changed before the winter lay up, but even then, I don't think I'd change it every year.

 

Even if it had the most appalling short-run, stop-start, never really up to temperature riding life, the oil that's coming out of the sump is probably still transparent.

[Eckhard Grohe]

To start I want to say I agree with Ed, but just in case. If he had too much oil in the engine and it was getting into the air box. Maybe some goes down the intake after sitting all night. Anyway, what does the oil level look like? Don't have the oil level above the dot on the window after going through the oil level check procedure.

 

Oil level check procedure?? Overnight on the side stand after running and then 5-10 minutes on the center stand. Oil between the center of the dot and bottom of the window.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Eckhard does have a point. You would get the most blowby with the engine cold and , if the crankcase were overfull, out the breather, which vents into the airbox it would come and it might come as a mist and cause a bit of smoke. Again, though, small differences in ambient temperature shouldn't make much difference, which is why I'll still vote in favor of water vapor.

[DEF]

Oh, and after the Rislone, I recommend a nice, long trip on the bike.......say, down here to Texas. The ROT rally is in June, just about the right time for you folks in Canada...so, get that BMW lubed and fueled and let's go to Austin, TX....Or, a ride to Road America at Elkhart Lake, WI for the June SB races....just right...make plans.......I am.

 

Oh, BTW, listen to Ed and Eckhard...just make sure you choose an engine oil with a high TBN...if it is condensate as Ed says, the high TBN will help protect from acid formation....

[Alain_Labelle]

Thanks for the info folks!

 

This bike shure needs a very long ride