'04 R1150R Not Starting

[happynewtrouble]

Hallo everybody. Here I am with the same exact trouble described in this post. My BMW R1150r doesn' t start  cold. I miss the injector open and dont spray fuel. I have Sparks as if I force the left ignnjector  with an external battey I can have the left cylinder start and of I rise up the rpm than starts the right cylinder too so I can reconnect the left and can run several times if the motor is warm. If I leave the motore to cool down the motronic stop to supply the injectors as I try to crank. Made several test and Discovered that as I try to crank cold the voltage at fuse 5 drops at 9v for one second This probably reset the Motronic and block It. I Could read several post that say Is a problem connected to the crank motor. Made a battery short test and the battery Is performing more than 100%. Made a crank motor renew and now Is ok. If I can force ti start and after this I can repeat the starting sequence , the voltage at fuse 5 never drops down 11 volt. As this seems to be a well known problem I want to investigate more. Will try to give a sort of filter on fuse 5 to prevent voltage drops on motronic. Eg. Big capacitors. Stay tuned

[dirtrider]

18 minutes ago, happynewtrouble said:

Hallo everybody. Here I am with the same exact trouble described in this post. My BMW R1150r doesn' t start  cold. I miss the injector open and dont spray fuel. I have Sparks as if I force the left ignnjector  with an external battey I can have the left cylinder start and of I rise up the rpm than starts the right cylinder too so I can reconnect the left and can run several times if the motor is warm. If I leave the motore to cool down the motronic stop to supply the injectors as I try to crank. Made several test and Discovered that as I try to crank cold the voltage at fuse 5 drops at 9v for one second This probably reset the Motronic and block It. I Could read several post that say Is a problem connected to the crank motor. Made a battery short test and the battery Is performing more than 100%. Made a crank motor renew and now Is ok. If I can force ti start and after this I can repeat the starting sequence , the voltage at fuse 5 never drops down 11 volt. As this seems to be a well known problem I want to investigate more. Will try to give a sort of filter on fuse 5 to prevent voltage drops on motronic. Eg. Big capacitors. Stay tuned

Evening happynewtrouble

 

Run a cranking voltage drop test between the coil B+ terminal & battery + post.

 

Then do a cranking voltage drop test between the fuel injector's B+ terminal & the battery + post. 

 

Then do a cranking voltage drop test between the Motronic earth terminals & the battery (-) post.

 

If you find a voltage loss in any of the above  then find & repair that. 

 

I have seen problems (resistance) with the main grounds at the transmission area, resistance in the ignition switch,  resistance at wire terminals. 

[happynewtrouble]

Thanks for your prompt report dear Dirtrider. I apreciate very much your diagnostic method that Is very similar to mine. This trouble seems to be connected to a Deep drop of voltage on the motronic fuse n5. This force the motronic to go in a hibernation state. This prevents injection spray. Before this daily fault the faults weee weekly... And expecially on moisture weather... Tomorrow Will look for voltages drops by resistence on cables or grounds

[dirtrider]

13 minutes ago, happynewtrouble said:

Thanks for your prompt report dear Dirtrider. I apreciate very much your diagnostic method that Is very similar to mine. This trouble seems to be connected to a Deep drop of voltage on the motronic fuse n5. This force the motronic to go in a hibernation state. This prevents injection spray. Before this daily fault the faults weee weekly... And expecially on moisture weather... Tomorrow Will look for voltages drops by resistence on cables or grounds

Evening happynewtrouble

 

Personally I wouldn't do it by resistance as that might not show the problem.  I more prefer voltage drop as that shows resistance under load in that part of the circuit. 

 

You have 3 potential loss areas at/with the Motronic. The full time 12v B+ in,   the 12v ignition supply in,   & the low (earths) between the Motronic & transmission earth stud then back to battery (-) post.

[happynewtrouble]

Yes of course, no current = no voltage drops . My Guess Is a problem with the negative from motronic and transmission. I can find negative on the bumper Bolt only close to the fusebox and this Is unusual for a bike frame....

[happynewtrouble]

One odd thing is that the fuel pump does not prime EVERY time I turn on the key. I'd say it prime 50% of time. Has it to prime EVERY time I turn the key on ?????

[dirtrider]

39 minutes ago, happynewtrouble said:

One odd thing is that the fuel pump does not prime EVERY time I turn on the key. I'd say it prime 50% of time. Has it to prime EVERY time I turn the key on ?????

Evening  happynewtrouble

 

It should prime (about 2 seconds)  every time you turn the key on after it sits for while. Sometimes they won't re-prime if you tun the key right back on after you have just turned it off. 

[happynewtrouble]

so If I start in the morning for the first time and it doesn't prime , it is a fault condition 100%

1 hour ago, dirtrider said:

The full time 12v B+ in,   the 12v ignition supply in

they are affected both them as the voltage at fuse 5 is dropping to 9v when in fault condition

Thanks for your support and experience +++

[dirtrider]

Evening happynewtrouble

 

So If I start in the morning for the first time and it doesn't prime , it is a fault condition 100%-- Yes, it should always prime after sitting that long but you need to listen quickly as it only primes for a coupls of seconds.

 

The full time 12v B+ in,   the 12v ignition supply in

they are affected both them as the voltage at fuse 5 is dropping to 9v when in fault condition--- If BOTH the 12v ignition switch-in & the Battery 12v-in is low then your problem isn't at the #5 fuse it is way before that. Even before the ignition switch. 

 

You need to do some voltage tests & some voltage drop tests to try & isolate where the voltage loss is happing at. There are some splices in the main wire harness. Over the years I have seen a couple of low voltage issues that traced back to one of those splices.  

 

Check you fuel pump relay, if that has burnt terminals or it's socket has burnt terminals then that could easily cause your problem as it also powers the Motronic. 

 

[happynewtrouble]

4 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Check you fuel pump relay, if that has burnt terminals or it's socket has burnt terminals then that could easily cause your problem as it also powers the Motronic. 

I opened all the rele today to see contacts. Passed some copper wire in between the plated contacts. Swapped the same color rele to be sure. nothing changed. I have different rele same color  for motronic and for fuel pump .Their power contacts are from fuse 5  and fuse 6 so they probably repeat the  power drop to the motronic and the fuel pump. May be tomorrow I go to see if fuse 6 has the same voltage 9v

[happynewtrouble]

in this moment was thinking that if the fuel pump is in erratic short  or fault condition it  should drop the voltage before fuse 6 and pass it to fuse5 and to motronic. This could be the reason of erratic prime . As I cranck I see the voltage on the  digital meter drop to 11 than 9 than up again to 11. This can depend on the cranched motor  inertia of course..

Time to sleep on this

[dirtrider]

3 minutes ago, happynewtrouble said:

in this moment was thinking that if the fuel pump is in erratic short  or fault condition it  should drop the voltage before fuse 6 and pass it to fuse5 and to motronic. This could be the reason of erratic prime . As I cranck I see the voltage on the  digital meter drop to 11 than 9 than up again to 11. This can depend on the cranched motor  inertia of course..

Time to sleep on this

Evening happynewtrouble

 

I have something to do tonight so I won't be back on this site until tomorrow. 

 

In the mean time check your messages on this site as I sent you some wiring information.  

[happynewtrouble]

Many thanks. At the moment I'm working on this scheme that seems to be 100% complying my model...

[dirtrider]

12 hours ago, happynewtrouble said:

 

Many thanks. At the moment I'm working on this scheme that seems to be 100% complying my model...

Morning happynewtrouble

 

I had another quick thought after I signed off last night. 

 

You mentioned above that it seemed like the Motronic went into hibernation, there is no actual hibernation but there is a sort of lock-out mode. The only thing I have seen ever put the Motronic into that mode is strange or odd signals from the HES. 

 

I have seen them lock out when someone is playing with the HES causing strange HES signals back to the Motronic.

 

You might try disconnecting the HES as a test. See if that allows fuel pump prime after overnight sit. Obviously it won't have spark or fuel pump run during engine cranking as it won't have a cranking signal.

 

Or possibly try removing fuse #5 for overnight then next morning install fuse #5 THEN see if you always get fuel pump run at key-on. 

 

If the HES is original, or just old, then there is an elevated  chance that the wire insulation has started to disintegrate so ANY moisture that enters that area can cause HES circuit cross-talk. 

 

An area to look into anyhow______

 

 

[happynewtrouble]

Morning Dirtrider

 Yesterday I left the bike running  even if a bit rich after forcing it to start so it was responding ok and made several attempt to cranck again and all them were ok after the first .

this morning made a quick test . I first tried to swithch on the cockpit with no cranck just to see if the prime pump after 15 hour stop.
There was the light on cockpit, the noise from ABS pump and the repeating click from the abs rele. Nothing else. I swithched off , 20 second than on again. Same than previous ( no pump)  Switched off , 20 seconds than on again and this time I had the 2 second prime pump.
After this I stopped the test but seems quite odd to me. Nothing else than power on the key and the situation was different regarding the pump.

The HES was one of my first think. Some day ago on the beginning of the FAULT SAGA I opened the front cover and made the pulley rotating by hand with the key on and could see the pump signal moving the pump even if it was not so regular. The HES is my next attention on. Just controlled the cables and may be can measure the voltage pulse  directly on cable moving the pulley by hand. Will tell

[dirtrider]

32 minutes ago, happynewtrouble said:

Morning Dirtrider

 Yesterday I left the bike running  even if a bit rich after forcing it to start so it was responding ok and made several attempt to cranck again and all them were ok after the first .

this morning made a quick test . I first tried to swithch on the cockpit with no cranck just to see if the prime pump after 15 hour stop.
There was the light on cockpit, the noise from ABS pump and the repeating click from the abs rele. Nothing else. I swithched off , 20 second than on again. Same than previous ( no pump)  Switched off , 20 seconds than on again and this time I had the 2 second prime pump.
After this I stopped the test but seems quite odd to me. Nothing else than power on the key and the situation was different regarding the pump.

The HES was one of my first think. Some day ago on the beginning of the FAULT SAGA I opened the front cover and made the pulley rotating by hand with the key on and could see the pump signal moving the pump even if it was not so regular. The HES is my next attention on. Just controlled the cables and may be can measure the voltage pulse  directly on cable moving the pulley by hand. Will tell

  Morning happynewtrouble

 

What you are looking for on the HES is probably not measurable as the wires are more than likely still separated from each other.

 

What happens is the wire insulation breaks down (almost a certainty)  on old, or original, HES's then moisture allows the wires to cross-talk to each other. 

 

About the only way that I know to  vet the HES is to cut the outer sheath open then look at the internal wires. If you plan on repairing (rewiring yours then don't cut the outer sheath open if you can help it as you can re-use that if it is intact by pulling the new wires through it.

 

If you have an old or original HES then THAT would be the first thing that I looked into as the old/original are almost always a BIG problem on the old 1100 bikes.  

 

Here is typical bad HES, picture borrowed  from Tsūkin-sha on this site.  

 

 

[happynewtrouble]

Hello dear Dirtrider,  Small update. Yesterday I performed some starting tests in the afternoon. I cleaned the spark-plugs and verified the spark presence. The left was ok , cleaned a bit than went to the left. Testing the spark removing the spark-plug and grounding on the head fins I had the surprise that the one left cylinder was starting the motor and holding the rpm . So I was very happy. Remounted everithing and performed a complete cold start The cold start didn't work as usual. I forced with left injector direct supply while cranck. Started a bit confused and the right side injector started too so as usual I took the byke of the garage to let it warm. Afer ten minutes I performed several test start and stop. 50 % of them were faulty. So I decided to pass to the next morning to investigate the Hes. So today I dismounted all the spark plugs again and cleaned, made a complete crank motor maintenance and dismounted the HES plate. This had been previously inspected by someone else. The retain cable clip was missing... This seems to be a recent type with silicone cables. I marked the plate position to reinstall in the original angle. I did't opened the insulation to see the internal cables as silicon should resist the high temperature. I could see a lot of iron magnetic dust attached to the magnet. I know this dust can give timing problems so I carefully removed all. In attached the pictures or the maintenance. After this I made a reassemble of everything and tried a start. At the beginning had no pump prime. I trier several time key on and off but no pump. Made a forced test giving the pump directly and it was running. After this I tried a cranck  with no result . Applied a boost and went with the injector forced procedure and had some start attempt confirming that the injection was stopped by motronic. After some more effort I had the motor starting in a very regular way. I left the motor to warm up for ten minutes . After this I performed several cranks and all of them were ok. Than I stopped the motor for ten minutes and went for another try that was perfect. So I'll leave the motor to sleep one complete night and tomorrow will tell if the problem was the pickup metal dust confusing the motronic. Have to say that now the pump was priming two seconds every time I give the key.

After the dust clean...

 

I made some test unther the key on with the Hall sensor. I applied a voltmeter and could see that when activated the sensor gives out 12V and they are powered with 12 v . I supposed they were 5vdc but was wrong. I think 12 v is very difficult to be confused as signal. Will tell tomorrow

[dirtrider]

Quote

Than I stopped the motor for ten minutes and went for another try that was perfect. So I'll leave the motor to sleep one complete night and tomorrow will tell if the problem was the pickup metal dust confusing the motronic. Have to say that now the pump was priming two seconds every time I give the key.

Afternoon happynewtrouble

 

Hopefully you found part of the problem.  Let us know if it starts OK tomorrow. 

 

Where is all the metallic dust coming from?  That is not something that I have seen before. Was the rotor cup contacting one of the HES sensors?  Is the belt rubbing on something (questionable that would make metallic dust)?  Or is the metallic dust possibly coming from the alternator? 

 

Or possibly the original HES was worked on then improperly reinstalled at one time so that is remaining old metallic dust.  

[happynewtrouble]

Problem SOLVED. Will report soon. There are defective components around  and is important to know how to solve

[happynewtrouble]

And so finally I am here to tell tou the end of the fixing SAGA.
Iast day after the HES cleaning from the metal debrees  I left the bike in working condition . None of the 5 crank attempt was fault so this morning I went down in the garage. I applied the battery boost to prevent any battery drop than went on with the key.
Here the first negative: NO PUMP PRIME noise. Went for other 2 key on but nothing went in progress. Than I cranked and had the second negative. NO MOTOR START.  I decided to investigate the prime pump missing and decided to make some finger knock on the relè board.
Key on + knock on relè and had the pump prime. Repeated without knock and no pump. As I was feeling pain on my knocks I decided to take a small hammer to hit the beat on rele and give a try with crank. BINGO Knock+ crank and the motor runs. So I detected the fault was on the relè board.
I just inspected every single rele important for the ignition as the fuel pump relè and the motronic relè opening them and testing in contact and coils and everything was ok ( it was not completely). So I took my inspection glasses and a strong light and went for a careful look close. Something took my attention:
On the relè leg some scratch on the silver (tin ?) surface you could see the solid copper below brown color. Decided to take a blade and remove the scratch. BINGO. a complete silver slice went off the rele leg al total lengh. I went on cleaning all the silver color chips and made the copper shine .
Reinstalled the relè, gave the key and had the pump prime on 2 second. Repeated 3 time and had the pump 3 time. Went for a crank and had the motor start in 1/2 turn with no effort. PROBLEM SOLVED. I cleaned other reles as the horn and the Motronic relè of the same type number than decided to swap the horn and pump relè as horn is not so important than the pump.
Made several testes and all them 100% success. So I can say that the TYCO relè made in Portugal had a defect presenting the disconnection of the silver ( tin?) surface probably electroplated from the copper of the support. The copper was dark brown but you couldn't see from the surface ( disconnected) from it.
Conclusion: The motronic is performing at the key on several tests of sensor  ABS, Temperature, TPS, HES, pump relè and probably more. If the test of an important area is faulty it decide to stop the ignition. Furthermore the black relè are not simple relè. they have a sort of resistance in parallel to the coil this probably to avoid extra-voltage generated from circuit open but could be a code resistance to inform the motronic that everything is ok
Any open circuit or different resistance or short circuit is sending the motronic in a cut-off ignition mode. This, according to german philosopy, is to don't let you run as you could have worst problem while running.
Other happy new troubles discovered on this saga:
LESSON LEARNED
1)You fry the starting motor if you push too much the crank period more than one minute. Valeo crank motor they have a defect on the carbon brush connection. The negative intended one is connected to a small steel threaded bar that is intended to press the motor pack. The steel is not a good electrical conductor . If you make 200 amps passing the small steel bar the voltage drop can be more than 2v and this is reducing the motor voltage to be used. Did not measured it but I'm quite sure of this
I had a spare brand new motor with the flange broken so I swap the good pieces to rebuild a quite new motor. The old one after the heat of several crank was collapsing 3 of 4 magnet on the rotor. It Was still running but with less efficiency and erratic stops ( magnet pieces in the cranck)
2) inspect carefully rele contacts. TYCO was found to be defective from factory  . Good as new but degenerating with time and enviromental sensitive  if you have the injection stopped but you still have sparks veryfy all the rele legs contact or the cables to sensors
3) I could find a rubber connection flange from the trottle valve to the cylinder that was bad installed. You had gasoline out and too much air in. Give a look to strange color around the input air path. I have to re balance the carbs each side in air and open valves.
4) Clean the magnetic pick-up. They are collecting magnetic particles naturally present in the enviroment. This is reducing pick-up precision and could give erratic problems. If you have a look to your mobile phone speaker you take around for two year in your pocket you find a lot of magnetic debree
5) went to perform a TPS calibration. Put a volmeter 2V dc scale and attach one to the ground , the other to the TPS left wire red/white color. To have a contact just use a needl insert in the rubber seal just close to the wire and sink down to touch metal. ZERO Close valve you have to measure 370mV-400mV you open gas 30% and you read 4.7V than more 30% 4.7V constant up to max aperture.
if different values you have to move the torx key and regulate for the correct position. This is not very important as the motronic will compensate the rich or poor mixture in time but could be easy to start with a correct mix

Hope this experience could be useful to someone else and save time and money
Have fun

the rele with fauly leg See some chips flying

 

 

The rubber collector with piece broken

 

Many thanks to Dirtrider for the support

 

[dirtrider]

 

 

Quote

5) went to perform a TPS calibration. Put a volmeter 2V dc scale and attach one to the ground , the other to the TPS left wire red/white color. To have a contact just use a needl insert in the rubber seal just close to the wire and sink down to touch metal. ZERO Close valve you have to measure 370mV-460mV you open gas 30% and you reade 4V than more 30% 4V

Evening 

 

On the TPS adjustment, on the 1100, the 370mV is close but the 370mV-460mV is way to high. You never want the closed throttle TPS voltage to be over 400mV as the closed throttle fuel cut-off is 400mV.  We usually set the 1100 TPS to 385mV (no higher)

 

On your relay find, good find. But I'm not 100% convinced that your problems are gone (at least long term).  

 

Usually when the relay's have resistance issues with their socket terminals it is either a combination of loose fit terminals in the socket and/or the socket terminals are burnt brown from heat. Sometimes the relay terminals will also be burnt brown (a sure sign of overheating)

 

I usually take an old scarp relay then remove one terminal, then slide that terminal into all the socket-side terminals looking for a nice tight drag fit. If it slides in any of them loosely then I replace the socket terminal. If the fit is loose then the problem will return, you just don't know when.    Also, if any of the socket terminals are burnt brown then I also replace those as they burnt brown from resistance induced heat.

 

Those relays have a resistor in parallel with the pull-in coil, those are clipping resistors to prevent back EMF into the Motronic due to the pull-in coil voltage-spike when the relay is quickly powered down.  

[happynewtrouble]

7 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

 

Evening 

 

On the TPS adjustment, on the 1100, the 370mV is close but the 370mV-460mV is way to high. You never want the closed throttle TPS voltage to be over 400mV as the closed throttle fuel cut-off is 400mV.  We usually set the 1100 TPS to 385mV (no higher)

 

On your relay find, good find. But I'm not 100% convinced that your problems are gone (at least long term).  

 

Usually when the relay's have resistance issues with their socket terminals it is either a combination of loose fit terminals in the socket and/or the socket terminals are burnt brown from heat. Sometimes the relay terminals will also be burnt brown (a sure sign of overheating)

 

I usually take an old scarp relay then remove one terminal, then slide that terminal into all the socket-side terminals looking for a nice tight drag fit. If it slides in any of them loosely then I replace the socket terminal. If the fit is loose then the problem will return, you just don't know when.    Also, if any of the socket terminals are burnt brown then I also replace those as they burnt brown from resistance induced heat.

 

Those relays have a resistor in parallel with the pull-in coil, those are clipping resistors to prevent back EMF into the Motronic due to pull-in coil collapse when the relay is quickly powered down.  

"370mV-460mV is way to high" yes correct! I was wrong and changed  the post too. Values are 370-400 mV at trottle close position

[happynewtrouble]

Morning dear Dirtrider.

I went to verify the TPS and corrected down to 380mV. Lot of works to be made . I inspected primary and secondary spark plugs.

The upper seems ok but the lower are black and oiled.

The motor has not been running  too much after fixing the previous trouble so it is a bit early to give a response on this.

Thanks for your notes about rele connectors. I inspected them very carefully  before identify the real trouble.

I want to highlight the problem of the wrong metal plated. This is a chemical process and in 50 working  year in electronic- electro-mechanic, I never seen such a fault. The tin plate was de-foiled and the under metal was chemically brown , not from overheating. Completely different problem. I discovered this after inspecting  the last time and focoused my attention the scrap on one leg.

One real important question should be to know the reason that drive the motronic to the  injectors cut off condition. EG.:  Initial sensor control?  or relè coil test?  Which are the other tests that can stop the injectors??? This could help other people to identify the injector cut-off problem

 

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, happynewtrouble said:

Morning dear Dirtrider.

I went to verify the TPS and corrected down to 380mV. Lot of works to be made . I inspected primary and secondary spark plugs.

The upper seems ok but the lower are black and oiled.

 

The motor has not been running  too much after fixing the previous trouble so it is a bit early to give a response on this.

Thanks for your notes about rele connectors. I inspected them very carefully  before identify the real trouble.

I want to highlight the problem of the wrong metal plated. This is a chemical process and in 50 working  year in electronic- electro-mechanic, I never seen such a fault. The tin plate was de-foiled and the under metal was chemically brown , not from overheating. Completely different problem. I discovered this after inspecting  the last time and focoused my attention the scrap on one leg.

One real important question should be to know the reason that drive the motronic to the  injectors cut off condition. EG.:  Initial sensor control?  or relè coil test?  Which are the other tests that can stop the injectors???

 

Morning happynewtrouble

 

I'm still having a difficult time with just the coating on the relay terminals being the root of your issue. I work with many different types & brands of relays weekly & while have seen a number of issues with relay terminal contact resistance in my life  I haven't seen it not change, or not at least become intermittent  once a relay is removed & replaced, or swapped with another relay.  On the ones that I have seen go right back to acting up the same as before right after removal then reinstallation I can usually track back to loose fitting relay terminals to socket terminals contact, or burnt (brown/ or black) terminal resistance, or an actual failed relay. Possibly on very low voltage or low current circuits a relay terminal coating could effect the circuit integrity (like gold worn off or terminal coating issues)  but on 12v higher-amp relay terminals they either quickly  burn brown from resistance then heat or at least show some signs of discoloration. 

 

The lower spark plugs being dark with a little oiliness  on them is pretty normal on a BMW boxer engine as after each engine shutdown typically a little oil seeps past the piston rings after shutdown then migrates to the bottom of the combustion chamber where the lower spark plugs live. Typically the L/H cylinder is worse than the right as the L/H side cylinder points down more when the motorcycle is placed on the side stand.

It only takes one or two cold starts without riding the motorcycle for a distance under load to allow the lower plugs to soot up & show oily black again.

 

If you take that motorcycle out & ride it for 100KM at high speed then as soon as it cools off enough to remove the lower spark plugs you should see that they then look pretty normal as far as coloring goes.  They could still have some oil related cud on them but should at least be a normal color. 

 

One real important question should be to know the reason that drive the motronic to the  injectors cut off condition. EG.:  Initial sensor control?  or relè coil test?  Which are the other tests that can stop the injectors???-- I'm not real sure on the 1100 Ma 2.2 or on the 1150 Ma 2.4. It seems to happen way more often on the 1100 Ma 2.2 systems than on the 1150 Ma 2.4 systems. 

 

My guess it that is used for nothing on the BMW motorcycles. My educated guess is that it is just a carryover in the firmware of the Motronic 2.2 & possibly the Motronic 2.4 automobile side usage (probably something to do with the anti-theft baked in). I never spent much time tracking down it's origin as I have seen the 1100 Ma 2.2 lock-out happen quite a few times, but very seldom on the 1150 Ma 2.4.   It just takes a fuse #5 removal for a few minutes to clear.

 

If you want to track it down for yourself then personally I would go after it from the automobile side (especially the Ma 2.2) as I doubt you will find much info from the motorcycle side. It just seems to be some sort of artifact from the past,  nothing actually used on the BMW motorcycle side. There is probably some sort of immobilizer state that could be accessed, or read in the Ma 2.2 or Ma 2.4 but the ability to talk to the Ma 2.2 or 2.4 with any of the current scanners (like the GS-911 is so limited that you can't get in far enough to read any of that on the antique Ma 2.2 or Ma 2.4 boxes)

 

I do have a somewhat large (paper form) file on the automotive Motronic Ma 2.2 somewhere in my shop, if I get a chance (& can find it) I will see if I can shed some more light on the lockout deal. 

[happynewtrouble]

G'morning Dirtride

Today I repaired the rubber throttle flange with superglue flex gel  , than made a complete reset to the intake air balance using a closed U type  2 meter rubber pipe filled with hydro-drive fluid   and could have a perfect balance in idle and to 3000 rpm .

Next erratic fault is on the main head light beam that  gets on after one minute the motor running. I suspect the lamp bulb with filament interrupted or the main beam rele with a sort of the rele leg defect as seen on the pump rele. Will tell.

Thank you dear Dirtride for your patience and experience sharing+++++++++

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

Quote

 

Next erratic fault is on the main head light beam that  gets on after one minute the motor running. I suspect the lamp bulb with filament interrupted or the main beam rele with a sort of the rele leg defect as seen on the pump rele. Will tell.

Thank you dear Dirtride for your patience and experience sharing+++++++++

 

Evening happynewtrouble

 

Yes, it could be a bulb issue, or the brown earth wire terminal at the bulb (that is a high resistance area that causes issues on the BMW 1100/1150 bikes. Look for either the B+ or the earth terminal being burnt brown at the bulb. 

 

Or could be a lazy load-shed relay (load relief relay).

 

Or could be a general earth problem at the main earth junction (under battery box on top rear of engine) lots of chassis grounds tied into that one earth connection.  

 

Or could be a problem at the starter, the load-shed relay gets it's pull-in coil earth through the starter solenoid winding (start button 12v to the starter terminal during engine cranking is how it kills the headlight during engine cranking as that de-powers the load relief relay pull-in coil by removing the relay's pull-in coil low (earth).

 

If the starter solenoid pull-in terminal (black wire) stays hot for a short time after starting that will keep the load-relief relay pull-in coil from seeing earth, therefore not allowing the relay to pass 12v to the headlight. 

 

Or could be any number of electrical splices, or fuse box resistance, or ??????

 

A good first test is, with key-on, is to pull the black wire off of the starter solenoid terminal then see what quits working (lights accessories etc) . Then see if the exact same lights, accessories, etc are off right after engine starting. If all the same then probably something with the load-relief part of your system. If only the headlight is off right after starting  but other lights & accessories are working then look in the headlight circuit itself. 

 

Caution: never ground (earth) that black wire at the starter solenoid THEN push the start button as that can burn wires & ruin the start switch. You can earth that black wire for testing  as long as you NEVER push the start button when it is grounded (earth). I usually use a very thin wire or a 10 amp fuse to ground it as that will blow the fuse before it damages anything. 

 

  

[happynewtrouble]

Good afternoon dear Dirtrider

SOLVED. I can say after one week run test and spark plug color test the motor is running smooth and fine. No cold start problem any more. I had to change the front main beam lamp that was defective as I could verify on bench test. So I could find all troubles running on this nice bike. Thanks so much for your help.