Fine tuning the ride height of my 08

[Rider1260]

I am very new to my bike and am really happy overall , handling, speed, comfort wish I would have been able to do this years ago.
I am now fine tuning the bike for me a brake pedal extender, new GPS and now I am on to ride height or more importantly non moving height.
I have a Rick Meyer saddle that came with the bike, it is very comfortable tho showing its age and it is VERY tall on the low setting ( as it is in the pics ) I'm in tip toe mode if I want both feet down, I can one foot it and have been but I thought I might like a bit more security, found a killer deal on a stock seat unfortunately it seems to be a low seat., and it does make getting both feet down easy even on the highest setting but I feel like I'm riding a chopper, and always looking thru the windshield.
So wondering if just getting the Rick Meyer seat reshaped, I bit less foam on the side near the front and maybe a bit less padding near the tank to make it a bit more narrow so I don't lose the riding position I like but making reaching Terra firma a bit easier. Do you all think I can have my cake and eat it to, or should I just get used to one foot or tip toes.
 

[RandyShields]

Don't settle for just one foot down.  With the weight of the bike, that is also a recipe for a tip over when you're on an off camber surface, particularly if you are fully loaded.  Definitely get the seat redone or buy another so you can be comfortable and flat foot it.

[Antimatter]

I don't know about Rick Meyer, but most custom saddle makers will do alterations (for a price, obviously).  You can also make alterations yourself if you've a mind to.  Hacksaw blades work really well for re-shaping the dense foam found in seats.  Either buying or borrowing a pneumatic stapler makes re-fastening the seat cover down less of a chore. 

[Paul De]

What suspension is on this bike?   If you have ESA, you might pick up an inch or so to be sure it is set to solo rider.  If OEM std suspension back off the preload to see if you can get the saddle lower.    If you have aftermarket shocks they may allow some shock length adjustment but you will will have to pull the shock off the bike to do it.

[EvilTwin]

I'm in the same boat.  Mine is an '09 with ESA and I swapped out the standard seat for a sergeant low which is better but still not great.   I can get both feet down just about on the balls but it is still dicey on inclines or where there is gravel or loose sand.  I have the bike set for the lowest preload  on the rear.  Any more improvement has to come from either changing out shocks or swapping out the springs for progressive versions that are shorter.  I've read good and bad about that online, so as far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out.

 

Within the last few days I have been communicating with Ted Porters shop out in CA.  It comes down to replacing the existing shocks with shorter versions.  They have two brands of shocks that will fit the bike and the price differential is about 4-500 between the two but neither is not a cheap fix.

 

Assuming your shocks are needing replacement (which may be a big assumption), then the fact you are getting new shocks eases the pain somewhat.  You also need to send them the rear shock with the preloader motor so they can transfer it to the new shock.  If you go with teh Wilbers, you need both shocks since they also need the ESA actuators as well.  The tractive shocks have new ESA actuators.  

 

This is what they sent me:

 

Hi Bob, please look through these links:

 

https://www.beemershop.com/product/tractive-esa1-plug-play-rear-shock-25mm-low-requires-oem-preload-adj-r1200rt-05-09.html

 

https://www.beemershop.com/product/tractive-esa1-plug-play-front-shock-25mm-low-complete-esa-replacement-r1200rt-05-09.html

 

https://www.beemershop.com/product/wilbers-634644-wesa-series-front-rear-shocks-r1200rt-05-09.html

 

Instructional videos here:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5X0rZVrYWQ

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZ7KJSrej_Y&t=17s

 

And on the Wilbers:

 

Hi Bob, for your model, the only Wilbers option is standard height, or 40mm low.  We do not recommend this option, as there is very little travel left in the bike, and the ride is harsh.  The Tractive shocks at 25mm low is the best solution.

[Rider1260]

3 hours ago, Paul De said:

What suspension is on this bike?   If you have ESA, you might pick up an inch or so to be sure it is set to solo rider.  If OEM std suspension back off the preload to see if you can get the saddle lower.    If you have aftermarket shocks they may allow some shock length adjustment but you will will have to pull the shock off the bike to do it.

Thanks for the input yes its an ESA bike I don't think lowering the suspension is for me I started on Solo and Normal found that to soft for my riding style ;/ right now I'm liking the Solo with luggage setting and normal setting it does a nice job in the less than perfect twisties and kills on the smoother faster stuff and when I have the top box and some gear on its very smooth. Part of my issue is the more upright with my feet somewhat more forward decades of having my hands forward and feet back frankly the RT feels a bit like riding a big dirt bike and its a hoot to hustle around and so much faster than i imagined, its not that the bike is heavy its the visual of the mass and not seeing the front wheel that's interesting. in reality I don't what to be lower when riding, I like looking over the screen when cornering and in slow traffic. I low seat ( I wished it was a standard ) makes it easy to touch down but being that low in the bike and always looking thru the shield just feels to strange for me. If I must I will get used to one footing it, I think but hoping I can strike a balance 

[Woodie]

I happen to have gotten a factory lowered model (Silver - almost the best color)...and I rarely use both feet anyway. I 99% ride solo, and use a briefcase rather than a top box, so the center of gravity is as low as it can get, and I don't find it particularly tippy or top-heavy.

 

Mine shield has a "laminar lip" added by the PO..which pushes the wind up over the helmet more than the stock, which allows me to keep the shield low enough to not look through it (most of the time). That may help.

 

[Woodie]

oh, two more thing: Rear shock - pretty easy to replace in the home garage. Front shock - NOT easy to do (I've opted to leave my front one as-is for the moment)

 

[Paul De]

3 hours ago, Rider1260 said:

Thanks for the input yes its an ESA bike I don't think lowering the suspension is for me I started on Solo and Normal found that to soft for my riding style ;/ right now I'm liking the Solo with luggage setting and normal setting it does a nice job in the less than perfect twisties and kills on the smoother faster stuff and when I have the top box and some gear on its very smooth. Part of my issue is the more upright with my feet somewhat more forward decades of having my hands forward and feet back frankly the RT feels a bit like riding a big dirt bike and its a hoot to hustle around and so much faster than i imagined, its not that the bike is heavy its the visual of the mass and not seeing the front wheel that's interesting. in reality I don't what to be lower when riding, I like looking over the screen when cornering and in slow traffic. I low seat ( I wished it was a standard ) makes it easy to touch down but being that low in the bike and always looking thru the shield just feels to strange for me. If I must I will get used to one footing it, I think but hoping I can strike a balance 

 

Totally get is as my riding style seems similar to you.   Haha, retro 1970's platform shoes?   Seriously though, maybe a riding boot with a thicker sole and heel might get you close enough to flat footing to satisfy your sense of secure footing.

 

I am riding with a Sargent saddle and with typical thickness shoe soles it allows me to nearly flat foot with both heels just off the ground by maybe 1/4 to 1/2 inch with bags and top box on.  My riding boots are actually simply steel toed work boots aimed for long days on a cement floor which have a thicker sole and heel and then I'm flat footed.

 

 

[hopz]

Hello 1260...

Let me toss in some experience on this topic. I rode an '05 RT which was essentially the same family and frame as your bike. I was on the '05 for quite a long time until the Wetheads came out... so I have a bit of experience. (as a point of reference- while I was on the '05 for a long time I also had many other bikes come into the stable and they each were modified to fit my style, comfort etc)

You ask a great question, but you do not tell us your "stature". How tall you are , what is your build and are your legs long, short or regular? (Boots? thick soles/heels or thin- etc. all this matters.)

 

I always started the journey of tuning a new bike with the seat. I am guessing  that the aftermarket Rick Mayer you show is just too tall for what you want. There are basically two ways to deal with this. Have the seat modified, or replace the seat. Have done both of these at various times, but frankly finding a different seat came after modifications were not getting the job done.  I do not see where you are living but if it is a city of any size there will likely be a guy that can re-build basically anything to fit your desires. Chances are he will have experience and suggestions on the matter. And... do you want seat heating or not? I always did, as I live in a cold climate.

 

Again the deal comes down to your body configuration. I am short, thin and want both feet down. I achieved this with a modified custom seat that was narrow at the front so that my inner thighs could have get close to the bike. The Rick Mayer seat is designed to be like a sofa. Which means high, and broad. Your choice, but there are conflicting dimensional issues and realities that must the considered and decisions made. 

 

I found also that the pegs could be accommodated also and often were. I recall having adjustable pegs where the peg part was on an arm so that they could be positioned higher or lower by rotating the mount. Changing one part of the "chain" always involves changing another part. If you move a peg you will have to consider the shifter and brake part of the equation- which also involves your boots... etc.

 

I always left the front and rear suspension stock since real modification here was expensive and uncertain. In other words it is hard to tell what you want except by throwing money at it, changing one thing always means considering everything else.

 

Welcome to the asylum.....

[Rider1260]

6 hours ago, hopz said:

Great reply  

Stocky ( full figured ) 5'10" - 32" pants , I can get the balls of my feet down if I want or need both feet as it, I am getting used to the one foot, funny because I always used to one foot my sport bikes, it just feels different on the RT so far but my sample size is really small. Hoping to get another ride or two in this year and some more commuting days 

I am looking to find some slightly thicker soled boots, my present old friends are thinnish soled with a small heal sporty bike boots , when I don't gear up completely running shoes.

I am hoping that something like thinning the front of the seat and some different boots will do it for me along with some more riding time and practice, already 100% more comfortable after a couple 100 miles.

There are at least two places near me where I can do a ride in. I've tried Sargents and Corbin on some of my other bikes with mixed results 

http://www.theseatguyjon.com   /// https://www.riggsbros.com/speciality-services/motorcycle-seats/

 

6 hours ago, hopz said:

 

   

 

Hello 1260...

Let me toss in some experience on this topic. I rode an '05 RT which was essentially the same family and frame as your bike. I was on the '05 for quite a long time until the Wetheads came out... so I have a bit of experience. (as a point of reference- while I was on the '05 for a long time I also had many other bikes come into the stable and they each were modified to fit my style, comfort etc)

You ask a great question, but you do not tell us your "stature". How tall you are , what is your build and are your legs long, short or regular? (Boots? thick soles/heels or thin- etc. all this matters.)

 

I always started the journey of tuning a new bike with the seat. I am guessing  that the aftermarket Rick Mayer you show is just too tall for what you want. There are basically two ways to deal with this. Have the seat modified, or replace the seat. Have done both of these at various times, but frankly finding a different seat came after modifications were not getting the job done.  I do not see where you are living but if it is a city of any size there will likely be a guy that can re-build basically anything to fit your desires. Chances are he will have experience and suggestions on the matter. And... do you want seat heating or not? I always did, as I live in a cold climate.

 

Again the deal comes down to your body configuration. I am short, thin and want both feet down. I achieved this with a modified custom seat that was narrow at the front so that my inner thighs could have get close to the bike. The Rick Mayer seat is designed to be like a sofa. Which means high, and broad. Your choice, but there are conflicting dimensional issues and realities that must the considered and decisions made. 

 

I found also that the pegs could be accommodated also and often were. I recall having adjustable pegs where the peg part was on an arm so that they could be positioned higher or lower by rotating the mount. Changing one part of the "chain" always involves changing another part. If you move a peg you will have to consider the shifter and brake part of the equation- which also involves your boots... etc.

 

I always left the front and rear suspension stock since real modification here was expensive and uncertain. In other words it is hard to tell what you want except by throwing money at it, changing one thing always means considering everything else.

 

Welcome to the asylum.....

 

[hopz]

ummm, One foot down kinda guy...

OK, remember one down means one up. Duh... and that means a habit is formed... and that means the need to use the other foot down means a moment of hesitation, and that  means 600 pounds of motorcycle is going one way or another without stopping to think about it. Result is picking up the bike at an intersection where you are already are not level... etc... and you are now picking her up from the heavy side down... duh. FWIW I have even seen guys trying pick a downed bike from the high side of the bike.

 

I like two feet down, and the odds are greatly improved... I hesitate to recount the time we were on a long trip, 2-up, heavily laden on an unfamiliar road and we encountered a road stoppage for a flagger (construction in upstate Oregon)... Came to a gentle, low speed stop and dumped the bike... in slow motion since there was a slope in the road. Wife did a graceful dismount to the low side and I tried but failed keep the RT upright. Over it went toward the down hill slope. I hopped off and soon 2 or 3 motorists hopped out of their stopped cars and helped me get upright again- with great embarrassment. Of course none of this had anything to do with seat height or leg length, just that as they say back in my Army days... "situational awareness is paramount" Things like gravel in a curve, un-level road surface etc. should become a constant visual and sensory input. 

 

Think about it now because you won't have time to think about it later. 

Just my $ 0.2

[Indy Dave]

On 10/11/2019 at 3:05 PM, Rider1260 said:

Thanks for the input yes its an ESA bike I don't think lowering the suspension is for me I started on Solo and Normal found that to soft for my riding style ;/ right now I'm liking the Solo with luggage setting and normal setting it does a nice job in the less than perfect twisties and kills on the smoother faster stuff and when I have the top box and some gear on its very smooth. Part of my issue is the more upright with my feet somewhat more forward decades of having my hands forward and feet back frankly the RT feels a bit like riding a big dirt bike and its a hoot to hustle around and so much faster than i imagined, its not that the bike is heavy its the visual of the mass and not seeing the front wheel that's interesting. in reality I don't what to be lower when riding, I like looking over the screen when cornering and in slow traffic. I low seat ( I wished it was a standard ) makes it easy to touch down but being that low in the bike and always looking thru the shield just feels to strange for me. If I must I will get used to one footing it, I think but hoping I can strike a balance 

 

I'd like to note a few things here. Factory suspension is designed to work over the very wide range of riders and loads. Most also say that BMW designs their suspension based on an ideal 170 lb German rider.

 

To your concern about the stock ESA being 'to soft', and therefore ruling out lowering suspension solely on that basis. Remember, if you replace the suspension - it will built, (or should be) sprung and valved to your weight and uses. So that means that the factory setting that is presently 'soft' can be easily changed with the valving and dampening changes and in your new shocks. This is the main advantage of changing to aftermarket suspension, and should not be overlooked.

 

A word of advice from one who has replaced 2 ESA suspensions (one for my hexhead and one for my camhead) - be sure (and confirm) that your dislikes about the current system (too soft, etc) are being addressed in the new system - they can and SHOULD be. Confirm that the dampening will be adjusted to suit your riding. If one simply relies on the "plug and play" marketing claim - and the valving/dampening isn't changed for you and your specs - you *may* be disappointed. This, IMO, is a calculated risk some builders make - knowing that the vast majority of riders will be happy with whatever they get. Re-valving shocks takes time, and while most builders are certified to do it, most prefer not to. Because of this, most builders take your order and specs, and then send that information to the factory to have your shocks built specifically for you, taking into account you wants and specifications. The downside is this takes a week or more. The upside is it's done right. If you are getting 'off the shelf' or 'in stock' shocks, this is not happening unless you specify and confirm the shocks are in fact, being valved specifically for you. In the midst of "I need it now" customers, some shops can place a higher emphasis on 'having it now' and shipping out same day or next day (and not re-valving the shocks themselves, let alone having the factory build the shocks for you)  - because I'm convinced the vast majority of riders will be happy with what they get. Most are simply replacing a worn our suspension that was fine for them, so they will be happy with a general spec replacement suspension. Just because they ask you to answer questions about your weight, loaded weight and riding style doesn't mean they are automatically transferring that info into custom built shocks - more likely, just making sure your specs fall into a much broader range of specs - just like the one size fits all factory system.  Ted is responsive - he will do what you want - but you should be crystal clear about what you want - vs getting lumped in with general spec default builds he does. And look - those setting may be fine for you - they are for a lot of riders. It really depends on how you ride your bike. But with your concern about the current system being too soft, I don't believe a general spec shock will work for you.

 

Ask yourself - if the shocks are not being valved for you, then who's specifications are they valved to? "Plug and Play" means essentially nothing in terms of the shocks performance - in other words - it does not magically sense your unique weight or preferences and adjust dampening accordingly (this is not dynamic ESA).

 

My first Wilbers ESA(1) was perfect right out of the box. Simply could not be happier with how it preformed. They were built at the Wilbers factory and shipped to my builder. My second Wilbers (ESA2) were off the shelf - and although it was implied  - they not tuned to my specifications -and for my riding style and preferences - were not acceptable.

 

One other thing to consider - and much cheaper than suspension -- is having your boots soles built up. Or look for boots that have a deeper sole - this can make a noticeable difference. Although the difference to the sole of these boots seems small, that small thickness difference is quite noticeable. I believe there is at least on boot that that specifically is made with a deeper sole. These are both stock soles.

 

Here's an example of a boot that has been built up:

 

 

 

On 10/11/2019 at 3:39 PM, Woodie said:

oh, two more thing: Rear shock - pretty easy to replace in the home garage. Front shock - NOT easy to do (I've opted to leave my front one as-is for the moment)

 

 

 

With all due respect - there is really nothing difficult about removing the front (or rear) shock on a hex/camhead bike. It does take more time to get to the front shock - and a lot of the tupperwear has to be removed , as well as the plastic front engine cover (5 screws) - but all of this is simple and straight forward. If this is the first time removing one is removing their tupperwear, then it will take a little longer, but this is really quite simple in the scope of bike repair and is really nothing more than a PITA.

 

EDIT: Although I've not gone to a lowered suspension, the spring and shock used in that setup will be firmer by default, I believe.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Indy Dave
added note

[Indy Dave]

Just to add to the much cheaper option of having boots built up. The boot photo I posted belonged to Mr. Zoom, a member of our community who recently passed. He had these boots built up 3/4 of an inch for $135.00. He also had notches cut into them for the foot pegs, as shown. But regardless, you get the idea. These are for sale by his wife, but listed by me, for $75. Size 44.

 

 

[Rider1260]

Great Ideas , thanks guys 

So far not concerned about the suspension at this point its working pretty well for my limited riding so far with bags and some gear and top box I am running 1+ baggage in the normal mode and find it nice and well dampened, for commuting , without the loaded top box it was working well on some of my favorite twisty roads.  

As far as height goes I am thinking a minor reshape of my seat ( thinning and lower at the front ) will suit me I've owned heavier and faster bikes than the RT so the weight is not an issue for me. 

and in my new boot shopping I am looking for a slightly thicker sole ( road boot vs a sport boot ) 

For me the biggest difference is the more upright riding position with my feet more in front instead of behind me. Just getting some different balance ques this only comes up at at very low speeds and its coming together for me as I get some miles on, I only change bikes every decade or so , an my bike becomes like an old trusted friend. 

I tried the lower seat and it made the bike sit almost cruiser like for me which I find unsettling and uncomfortable hands to high, feet to close to the hips. always looking thur the wind screen , once moving I LOVE the riding position as is.