Suddenly just clicking no cranking...

[Ladioviro]

I was in the middle of checking battery voltage on starting (new battery), tank raised, multimeter hooked up, assistant at the ready, didn’t have fuse 5 out because I wanted to see would it start, lights were off. 

 

So it turned slowly and dropped to 9 point something volts but started up and was at 14v when running. I turned it off then to do it again and the battery light came on.

 

Next time I went to start it I just got a click from the solenoid, battery and oil lights just stayed lit up continuously 

 

i swapped relays to no effect

 

is that how a starter motor dies? It was turning slowly the last few weeks, even when warm after a drive it wasn’t that perky

 

do the lights stay on with a dead starter? Or is it a number of issues? 

 

Bum deal. ‘98 1100r with 100k. Saw some printed pages about starter repair in the Haynes manual so maybe someone went at it before 

 

[Skywagon]

your battery may be new....but sounds like it was delivered flat.  charge it up fully and try again...

[Jim Moore]

Here's the best "starter repair" going.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Discount-Starter-Alternator-Replacement-Motorcycle/dp/B001V6QWCW/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=bmw+r1100+starter&qid=1570402044&sr=8-3

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, Ladioviro said:

I was in the middle of checking battery voltage on starting (new battery), tank raised, multimeter hooked up, assistant at the ready, didn’t have fuse 5 out because I wanted to see would it start, lights were off. 

 

So it turned slowly and dropped to 9 point something volts but started up and was at 14v when running. I turned it off then to do it again and the battery light came on.

 

Next time I went to start it I just got a click from the solenoid, battery and oil lights just stayed lit up continuously 

 

i swapped relays to no effect

 

is that how a starter motor dies? It was turning slowly the last few weeks, even when warm after a drive it wasn’t that perky

 

do the lights stay on with a dead starter? Or is it a number of issues? 

 

Bum deal. ‘98 1100r with 100k. Saw some printed pages about starter repair in the Haynes manual so maybe someone went at it before 

 

 

Evening  Ladioviro

 

No that is not how a starter usually dies but if the starter drive is stuck in the flywheel teeth then it could hold the starter solenoid engaged & therefore hold the load relief relay on due to a back 12v feed to the relay.

 

Try removing the load relief relay to see if the dash lights go out. 

 

It is pointing more towards the starter now but a very low battery could also cause the issue in rare cases.

 

Put the transmission  in high gear then vigorously rock the bike forward & back to see if will un-jamb the starter.

 

It sort of points to a jammed starter but it still could be something else.  

[Ladioviro]

7 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

Evening  Ladioviro

 

No that is not how a starter usually dies but if the starter drive is stuck in the flywheel teeth then it could hold the starter solenoid engaged & therefore hold the load relief relay on due to a back 12v feed to the relay.

 

Try removing the load relief relay to see if the dash lights go out. 

 

It is pointing more towards the starter now but a very low battery could also cause the issue in rare cases.

 

Put the transmission  in high gear then vigorously rock the bike forward & back to see if will un-jamb the starter.

 

It sort of points to a jammed starter but it still could be something else.  

Didn’t seem to do anything, many I’m not vigorous enough. You get a lot of movement with it in gear do you? Usually they’re fairly rigid. 

 

Would a stuck starter cause the battery and oil light to stay on ?

[dirtrider]

3 hours ago, Ladioviro said:

Didn’t seem to do anything, many I’m not vigorous enough. You get a lot of movement with it in gear do you? Usually they’re fairly rigid. 

 

Would a stuck starter cause the battery and oil light to stay on ?

 

Morning Ladioviro

 

Under a very specific & unusual  circumstance it could (might anyhow). 

 

Unless you have some very odd wiring issues (like wires shorted together or burnt/damaged) then about the only way I can see the battery and oil light to staying on at key-off  is either a failed ignition switch or possibly the  starter stuck therefore  back-feeding the dash lights back through the load relief relay coil. 

 

You might try removing the load relief relay (in the fuse box) to see if the lights go out, OR, try  unplugging the small wire going to the starter solenoid on the starter to see if the lights go out. 

 

The load relief relay is in the front row in the under-seat fuse box & is the 2nd one in from the left-hand (shift lever) side.  

[Alpinista]

Greetings fellow bee-em-dubbela riders ✌️
My R1150 has similar behaviour from starter, occasionally it has started working again after rocking the bike in gear a few times. Generally it would work after about 20 attempts pressing the start button, by which time I’m wondering if I’ll be walking home!

 

The bike is a 2003 model with 55000 miles on clock. Service record supports this mileage, and there is no mention of the starter being replaced previously.

 

This got worse over a few weeks of daily riding, so I had the battery tested. It appeared to be losing charge overnight, and in any case had low cranking power, so any cold start was a challenge! Warm start-ups were ok for some reason. So, a nice new battery improved things, but it still took a couple of tries from cold, and sometimes the starter seemed to be staying engaged for a few seconds after start-up.........not a good noise!

 

Removed and dismantled the starter yesterday myself, finding the following:-

1. Tarnished connections to solenoid - main terminals and small spade connector from relay/load relief, plus these wires were both chafed through the insulation for some reason

2. Starter pinion and solenoid lever arm very dry, mechanism fairly stiff to move, but no damage to teeth of pinion or flywheel ring

3. Armature and brushes in good condition, except for one slightly loose magnet (other 3 still firmly in place)

4. No problems with planetary gears, still greased and protected by the cover plate

5. The two little aluminium rivets were still present where the main components are bolted together, suggesting that this starter has not previously been dismantled

 

Basically, I cleaned and lubricated all the moving parts, cleared out the dust and any fragments from the commutator, refixed the  loose magnet with an epoxy putty product, cleaned up all the electrical connections, taped up the damaged insulation on wires from relays, and re-installed the starter motor.

 

Bike seems to turn over very nicely now, sounds better somehow, and so far no repeat of the “click no crank” game!

 

I’ll source another (Valeo) starter as a spare in case of further problems, but I think the various factors above plus a weak battery were enough to stop the motor turning over a cold engine. I also suspect that the first press was chucking out the pinion which then stuck in place, preventing the starter from having another go at it. I’m no mechanic, and have never opened up a starter before, so I’m just going by the stiff mechanism I found in there, with no grease left, plus the noises it made 🥴

 

I’ll update this post in a while, as it may go wrong again of course! 
 

Laters....

[Hosstage]

What was the voltage of the battery before you tried to start it? What is the current voltage? Have you tried charging it? If so, what is the voltage after a day of sitting?

[Michaelr11]

Alpinista, no info on your signature or profile on where you are located.  I was cleaning my starter every few service cycles and finally got tired of it. Bought a Valeo replacement starter from DB Electrical online. Easy decision. They cost about $60 usd, dropped right in and has worked perfectly for over 20k miles. 

[AndyS]

13 hours ago, Alpinista said:

Greetings fellow bee-em-dubbela riders ✌️
 

Laters....

Hi Alpinista.

I am not really understanding your post. Is this a question you are asking or are you trying to help out the OP?

If it is your own question, please start another thread.

[Alpinista]

On 1/26/2020 at 11:45 PM, Hosstage said:

What was the voltage of the battery before you tried to start it? What is the current voltage? Have you tried charging it? If so, what is the voltage after a day of sitting?

Hi Hosstage, I have a new battery in now, but the old one would charge up ok. It usually had about 12.5v sutra a 25 mile ride. Overnight this would drop to about 10v. I think the bike shop I got to test it said under load it showed 8v or less, hence their recommendation to replace it. The new strong battery got the motor turning over, but not on every attempt, so I decided to look at the starter and connections.

[Alpinista]

21 hours ago, Michaelr11 said:

Alpinista, no info on your signature or profile on where you are located.  I was cleaning my starter every few service cycles and finally got tired of it. Bought a Valeo replacement starter from DB Electrical online. Easy decision. They cost about $60 usd, dropped right in and has worked perfectly for over 20k miles. 

Hi Michael 11, I’m in the UK, where new Valeo starters are approaching £200 from OE suppliers. Cheaper pattern ones are easily available, but I thought it would be worthwhile trying to fix mine myself.....so far so good.

[Alpinista]

11 hours ago, AndyS said:

Hi Alpinista.

I am not really understanding your post. Is this a question you are asking or are you trying to help out the OP?

If it is your own question, please start another thread.

Hi AndyS, I was just sharing my experience as an example of a possible cause of the symptoms of the OP problem, and what they may find if pulling apart the starter etc. Hope it is of use to People’s 👍

[Hosstage]

1 hour ago, Alpinista said:

Hi Hosstage, I have a new battery in now, but the old one would charge up ok. It usually had about 12.5v sutra a 25 mile ride. Overnight this would drop to about 10v. I think the bike shop I got to test it said under load it showed 8v or less, hence their recommendation to replace it. The new strong battery got the motor turning over, but not on every attempt, so I decided to look at the starter and connections.

 

What is the current voltage on the new battery? A full charge is about 13 volts or more. 12.5v is only 75% charge, maybe less.

[Alpinista]

On 1/28/2020 at 1:15 AM, Hosstage said:

 

What is the current voltage on the new battery? A full charge is about 13 volts or more. 12.5v is only 75% charge, maybe less.

Checked this for you before a cold start this morning.........13v at rest, 14.2v with the engine running. Bike turned over well and started easily, which it has done every time since I cleaned up the contacts etc. My feeling is Ladioviro probably has similar problems to my bike, ie weak battery and poor connections and or partially seized starter pinion.