Charcoal Canister Maintenance

[JonathanE]

Time and resources permitting, I intend to collect the emissions from my tank vent and run them through the mass spectrometer at work, comparing with air taken from a source near the bike. Time to find out just what is emitted and how much.

 

Any chemists out there willing to speculate? I'll run a flask with a two hole stopper, with one side connected to the tank vent, one to air. Collect sample for 8 hours in with the bike sitting in the sun. Flow pure helium through the mass spec and then inject 1.0cc of the tank effluvia into the flow and see what the mass spec has to say. Wait for return to norms and then do the same, using a fresh syringe loaded with 1.0cc of air. Mass spec is a Pfeiffer RGA analyzier with a filiment temp of 1400 deg C so it should be able to spot most of what is in there.

 

It would also be of some interest if someone has access to an EGA, to see what effect a saturated charcol cannister has on the tailpipe emissions at idle and maybe 3K RPM.

 

Ed, you need to find something more valuable to waste your time doing. Loose women and booze or something.

[DEF]

Time and resources permitting, I intend to collect the emissions from my tank vent and run them through the mass spectrometer at work, comparing with air taken from a source near the bike. Time to find out just what is emitted and how much.

 

Any chemists out there willing to speculate? I'll run a flask with a two hole stopper, with one side connected to the tank vent, one to air. Collect sample for 8 hours in with the bike sitting in the sun. Flow pure helium through the mass spec and then inject 1.0cc of the tank effluvia into the flow and see what the mass spec has to say. Wait for return to norms and then do the same, using a fresh syringe loaded with 1.0cc of air. Mass spec is a Pfeiffer RGA analyzier with a filiment temp of 1400 deg C so it should be able to spot most of what is in there.

 

It would also be of some interest if someone has access to an EGA, to see what effect a saturated charcol cannister has on the tailpipe emissions at idle and maybe 3K RPM.

 

Ed,

 

Your GCMS will likely tell the story. As for an EGA, they are UV and IR instruments and likely do not have the sensitivity to detect emissions with and without the canister. Also, the engine must be running at mid range RPM before the solenoid actuates to purge the canister (vacuum on).

 

Your results will be of great interest to me.

 

Until I am proven otherwise (and, I’m sure of my technology here), your canister and CAT should remain in place.

 

SageRider, go back to your slot machine....this is way out of your realm.

[DEF]

Hey, this is a fun thread Maybe we could really get things going and dredge up the catectomy thing.

 

JamesW,

 

I would stay on the sidelines regarding CAT removal.......you folks in Oregon need all the clean air you can get...

[SAAB93driver]

I wonder if these things even prevent as much pollution as was created to produce them in the first place?

 

That's an angle to consider. The energy used to mine, process and fabricate the materials, not to mention the chemicals for the painting the the thing, I think there are some brazed or soldered pieces on it as well. And then there is the environement impact of disposal of it at the end of its useful life to think about. Some might call it splitting hairs, but it can't be insignificant. There is no free ride.

[DEF]

I wonder if these things even prevent as much pollution as was created to produce them in the first place?

 

That's an angle to consider. The energy used to mine, process and fabricate the materials, not to mention the chemicals for the painting the the thing, I think there are some brazed or soldered pieces on it as well. And then there is the environement impact of disposal of it at the end of its useful life to think about. Some might call it splitting hairs, but it can't be insignificant. There is no free ride.

 

Not to worry....they're made in a 3rd world country.

[steve.foote]

Time and resources permitting, I intend to collect the emissions from my tank vent and run them through the mass spectrometer at work, comparing with air taken from a source near the bike. Time to find out just what is emitted and how much.

 

Any chemists out there willing to speculate? I'll run a flask with a two hole stopper, with one side connected to the tank vent, one to air. Collect sample for 8 hours in with the bike sitting in the sun. Flow pure helium through the mass spec and then inject 1.0cc of the tank effluvia into the flow and see what the mass spec has to say. Wait for return to norms and then do the same, using a fresh syringe loaded with 1.0cc of air. Mass spec is a Pfeiffer RGA analyzier with a filiment temp of 1400 deg C so it should be able to spot most of what is in there.

 

It would also be of some interest if someone has access to an EGA, to see what effect a saturated charcol cannister has on the tailpipe emissions at idle and maybe 3K RPM.

 

Ed, be very careful here. When you disconnect the canister to take your samples, there is a pretty good chance that you could cause an explosion which may kick off a chain reaction in the environment and kill us all.

 

It could really screw up El Paseo this year. Just think about it before you do something we all might regret.

[SAAB93driver]

 

Not to worry....they're made in a 3rd world country.

 

The ones that came off of my bikes are MANN manufactured parts, could be Eastern block factory but my guess is the keyboards we are all typing on are more likely to come from a third world country than the evap cannister.

[JamesW]

Dennis, too late, already gutted that cat (no offense to the feline variety) and I love it Hi Ed. Oh, on that air thing I live on the coast and the last I heard was that the westerlies still blow from west to east. That's probably why our fuel isn't oxygenated, look out Eugene here it comes

Uh..that's Eugene as in Oregun. I've heard there is a lot of hot air in Texas course I don't believe everything I hear. Only joking, no offense.

[Shawnee Bill]

Get that canister off NOW!

 

My son was riding my R1100R (that's identical to your 850R) with his girlfriend on the back (she barely weighed 100 lbs), he hit a pothole, bottomed the rear suspension enough that the canister hit the banjo bolt on the rear brake caliper at just the right angle to give it a quarter turn loose, all the brake fluid leaked out real quick and he lost all rear braking.

Now just ask any Harley rider and they will tell you the rear brake is what stops you.

 

I took it off and have had no problems with the brakes since.

[SageRider]

SageRider, go back to your slot machine....this is way out of your realm.

Yet another unsubstantiated statement based on zero factual evidence.

(but I'm glad that you're sure of your technology!)

[Ken H.]

Get that canister off NOW!

 

My son was riding my R1100R (that's identical to your 850R) with his girlfriend on the back (she barely weighed 100 lbs), he hit a pothole, bottomed the rear suspension enough that the canister hit the banjo bolt on the rear brake caliper at just the right angle to give it a quarter turn loose, all the brake fluid leaked out real quick and he lost all rear braking.

 

Seems like a better answer would be for Jerry "No_Twilight" to never ride through potholes with your son's girlfriend.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Time and resources permitting, I intend to collect the emissions from my tank vent and run them through the mass spectrometer at work, comparing with air taken from a source near the bike. Time to find out just what is emitted and how much.

 

Any chemists out there willing to speculate?

 

Don't need to speculate much; it should be pretty easy to model what's coming out of the tank vent. Gasoline vapor pressure vs. temperature is very well understood, as is the expansion of air with temperature. Assume the air in the tank is saturated with fuel vapor at any given moment (a good assumption for the timescales involved). The tank breathes with every diurnal temperature cycle (assume temp swings between 50 and 80F?), and breathes with every engine shutdown/hot-soak (assume temp swings between ambient and ~100F?). The more airspace there is in the tank (low fuel), the greater the volume "exhaled" by the tank during thermal expansion, easily modeled by PV=mRT.

 

Don't have time to do it right now; maybe next week if this thread hasn't been killed by then. Please try to stay civilized, folks.

[scottd]

The real problem here is not the beemers, too few of us. The big problem is the cruisers (no brand mentioned). First, theres a lot more of them. Second, every dang one has jettisoned the cat, stock airbox, canister, and just about every other useful piece of equipment on them. They have metal tanks, usually painted black. You know how hot black metal gets in the sun, particularly when parked outside the bar all day long. That gas has to be just a degree under boiling sitting there. So if you really want to save the planet round up those cruisers and dispose of them in some enviromentally safe way. Then we can finally get a good nights sleep.

[Paul Mihalka]

I don't throw rocks. I live in a glass house.

[DEF]

SageRider, go back to your slot machine....this is way out of your realm.

Yet another unsubstantiated statement based on zero factual evidence.

(but I'm glad that you're sure of your technology!)

 

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[DEF]

The real problem here is not the beemers, too few of us. The big problem is the cruisers (no brand mentioned). First, theres a lot more of them. Second, every dang one has jettisoned the cat, stock airbox, canister, and just about every other useful piece of equipment on them. They have metal tanks, usually painted black. You know how hot black metal gets in the sun, particularly when parked outside the bar all day long. That gas has to be just a degree under boiling sitting there. So if you really want to save the planet round up those cruisers and dispose of them in some enviromentally safe way. Then we can finally get a good nights sleep.

 

Either send them into space (space junk) or CAT and canister them like BMWs.

[wuli959]

Not to worry....they're made in a 3rd world country.

 

so we should remove it to protest them taking advantage of disadvantaged countrys ??

 

 

 

 

 

[DEF]

Dennis, too late, already gutted that cat (no offense to the feline variety) and I love it Hi Ed. Oh, on that air thing I live on the coast and the last I heard was that the westerlies still blow from west to east. That's probably why our fuel isn't oxygenated, look out Eugene here it comes

Uh..that's Eugene as in Oregun. I've heard there is a lot of hot air in Texas course I don't believe everything I hear. Only joking, no offense.

 

Last time I was in Portland, I had occasion to visit a friend’s home overlooking the Willamette. In attempting to view Mt. Hood and Mt St. Helens, there was considerable shust and smog which impeded my view.

 

Now, you may think your air is OK but, I have a different thought. All you lefties out there need to stop and smell the roses, if any still grow out there.

 

As for Texas hot air....yep, plenty of it, especially here in the Houston area where gas is $2.84/gallon and it comes blended with about 10% ethanol….But, I don't want to take any more of your time......quick, get down to the river....the salmon are dying...you just don't know it yet.

 

As for your CAT, too late........the CAT cops will soon be knocking at your door.

[DEF]

Not to worry....they're made in a 3rd world country.

 

so we should remove it to protest them taking advantage of disadvantaged countrys ??

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, install a second one...............

[DEF]

Get that canister off NOW!

 

My son was riding my R1100R (that's identical to your 850R) with his girlfriend on the back (she barely weighed 100 lbs), he hit a pothole, bottomed the rear suspension enough that the canister hit the banjo bolt on the rear brake caliper at just the right angle to give it a quarter turn loose, all the brake fluid leaked out real quick and he lost all rear braking.

 

Seems like a better answer would be for Jerry "No_Twilight" to never ride through potholes with your son's girlfriend.

 

Or...don't be a sap. Never let your son ride your bike again. And, learn how to adjust preload for the rear suspension based upon the load being carried.........

 

(Boy, thre are lot of dumb BMW owners out there....no names...you know who you are).

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

OK, never mind; this thread isn't about charcoal cannister maintenance anymore.