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AndyS

Exhaust valve 2017 RT

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AndyS

Has anyone come up with a fix for freeing up a seized exhaust flap? The servo and cables are fine, but the butterfly is seized in the fully open position. I can’t see any corrosion or muck but it is rock solid. I don’t want to break anything!

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dirtrider
16 minutes ago, AndyS said:

Has anyone come up with a fix for freeing up a seized exhaust flap? The servo and cables are fine, but the butterfly is seized in the fully open position. I can’t see any corrosion or muck but it is rock solid. I don’t want to break anything!

 

Morning Andy

 

I haven't had to deal with that problem yet (I know a few  have had to address it).

 

Are you for-sure that the valve is frozen? It has a push & pull cable so you probably won't move the valve without disconnecting  the closing cable.

 

Have you checked yours with the engine running to see if it is then closed?

 

For struck exhaust diverter or  restriction  valves I use a product that used to be the mainstay of  stuck exhaust diverter valves & that is the old General Motors heat riser lube (remember those things?). That stuff plain works as it is designed to penetrate & not burn off in a high heat environment.  

 

Not sure where you can a find a heat riser lube product any  longer as heat risers haven't been used since the old carburetor days. But if you can find a heat riser lube then that would be my starting place recommendation for a product to free yours up.  

 

 

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Cap

With the muffler removed, you can turn the main power on, and witness the flap close and reopen.  I heard from another member of this forum, when his flap failed under warranty, that the dealer (Max) told him replacement was the only fix.  And replacement parts are hard to locate. And expensive.

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lkraus

Googling "heat riser lubricant" comes up with several links to this AC/Delco product: https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-10-4020-Rust-Penetrating-Lubricant/dp/B008I2H55U/ref=asc_df_B008I2H55U/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312201735010&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17296751849674593579&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9014946&hvtargid=pla-571625032297&psc=1

 

Wish I'd known about it a few decades ago. I carried a hammer for the valve on my Valiant slant-6. Close it before starting so it would warm the carb, then stop a few miles down the road to tap it open, eliminating the flow restriction. 

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bmwdavid

Not to hijack the thread but these type of situations make me think about the extended warranty even though most advised me against it because I don't have any miles on my bike. What mileage did this happen at?

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Cap

Looks like they upgraded the part in 2016.  Part number for 2016-forward is 18 51 7 722 614, hard to tell if you can actually get one, but A&S lists it for $270.

 

dbvis-1034582270167543610.gif.e63c584bb59342fe72950d61bbf02fe3.gif

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lkraus

Cap, those parts are the servo motor and cables that operate the flap,  which AndyS said were OK. The cables attach to the pulley-like disc at the rear of the exhaust manifold (yellow arrow), which rotates the flap. The stuck part is apparently available only with the entire manifold assembly, ~$2008.

flap.jpg.f9b37caf9e214379b9b26da21b5505f7.jpg

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Cap
5 hours ago, lkraus said:

Cap, those parts are the servo motor and cables that operate the flap,  which AndyS said were OK. The cables attach to the pulley-like disc at the rear of the exhaust manifold (yellow arrow), which rotates the flap. The stuck part is apparently available only with the entire manifold assembly, ~$2008.

 

 

Yikes.  Now  I understand better the story I was told about it... The story goes that earlier this year, a bike was just about to go out of warranty, and the flap failed at about 35k miles.  There was a delay scheduling the repair because the part is hard to get.  So, after the repair was conducted, this owner bought another manifold preemptively so that he could be assured that he would have one the next time it failed.

 

Given the cost of the manifold, it might be cheaper to buy an extended maintenance policy that covers more than just the exhaust flap, for about the same price as a spare manifold.  I guess it depends on how long you intend to keep your moto. 

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Bradysdad

How can you tell if this happens?

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Cap
6 minutes ago, Bradysdad said:

How can you tell if this happens?

 

As I said above, you can remove the muffler, and then look inside the exhaust manifold.  The flapper is right there at the end.  Cycle the main power and you will see the flap close and then reopen.  It makes a distinctive sound as it cycles.  If you know the sound, you can listen for it every time you start the bike.

 

I just checked several extended warranty options from major plans -- so far I have not found one that covers the exhaust system.

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Bradysdad

I appreciate that. My question was directed more towards how can you tell if it’s stuck either open or closed? Is there a performance loss, odd sound, warning code, etc...

 

Thanks. 

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wbw6cos

What is the actual purpose of that valve?

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dirtrider
5 minutes ago, wbw6cos said:

What is the actual purpose of that valve?

 

Morning wbw6cos

 

It depends on who you listen to, the motor companies like to put a spin on that thing telling riders how it improves performance.

 

In actuality it is for noise pass-by reduction (exhaust noise reduction). That valve allows a fairly open exhaust for performance but allows the computer to restrict the exhaust (using that valve) to reduce the vehicle noise footprint  in the  operating ranges that are measured for vehicle noise compliance.    

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Bill Spurgeon
5 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

Morning wbw6cos

 

It depends on who you listen to, the motor companies like to put a spin on that thing telling riders how it improves performance.

 

In actuality it is for noise pass-by reduction (exhaust noise reduction). That valve allows a fairly open exhaust for performance but allows the computer to restrict the exhaust (using that valve) to reduce the vehicle noise footprint  in the  operating ranges that are measured for vehicle noise compliance.    

My question would be, how do you disable the flapper to the open position with out setting any codes in the computer?

 

Bill

 

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dirtrider
1 minute ago, Bill Spurgeon said:

My question would be, how do you disable the flapper to the open position with out setting any codes in the computer?

 

Bill

 

 

Afternoon Bill

 

While I haven't personally tried it on the 2017-2019 bikes I would imagine that just removing the flapper cables then wiring (securing) the valve open would do that as the bike's computer system could still operate the valve  control motor like normal but the computer system has no way to monitor or verify the actual header pipe valve position.

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AndyS
On 8/4/2019 at 2:56 AM, Bradysdad said:

How can you tell if this happens?

One way to know it has failed is the GS911 flags a fault.

Secondly, when you get the silencer off to change the rear tyre, you may notice the butterfly valve fully open (which in a servicable situation should be closed). Every instance I have heard of, the valve fails in the 'Open' state. This is a good thing because it still means the bike runs well.

 

Someone mentioned that the part number has changed and they modified the downpipes (alledgedly to alleviate this problem). My bike has the later system, so that lays they myth to rest!

 

DR, it is definitely the valve that has  jammed. The cables still move freely when there is an input demand from the servo motors.

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Bernie
2 hours ago, AndyS said:

One way to know it has failed is the GS911 flags a fault.

Secondly, when you get the silencer off to change the rear tyre, you may notice the butterfly valve fully open (which in a servicable situation should be closed). Every instance I have heard of, the valve fails in the 'Open' state. This is a good thing because it still means the bike runs well.

 

Someone mentioned that the part number has changed and they modified the downpipes (alledgedly to alleviate this problem). My bike has the later system, so that lays they myth to rest!

 

DR, it is definitely the valve that has  jammed. The cables still move freely when there is an input demand from the servo motors.

 

Good morning, Andy.

Are you sure the butterfly valve should not be open when the motor is off?

Mine is always open when I remove my muffler.

But I haven’t seen any error codes on the GS-911WIFI.

Can you test the function of the valve with the GS-911WIFI?

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AndyS
1 hour ago, Bernie said:

 

Good morning, Andy.

Are you sure the butterfly valve should not be open when the motor is off?

Mine is always open when I remove my muffler.

But I haven’t seen any error codes on the GS-911WIFI.

Can you test the function of the valve with the GS-911WIFI?

Hi Bernie,

No, I am not sure. It maybe just cycles at key on. However, mine does nothing. It is just rock solid in the open position with the control cables disconnected.

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MikeB60

I took it off on my cam head. Wunderlich or Hornig, cant remember which, made a short replacement pipe for the valve.  Always had a stored code but no check engine light.  

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LAF

You can buy a header from Akra or Remus for 1 K with no flap.   Why would you buy a stock set of headers for 2K?  You can gut the stock motor and use a Servo Buddy and that stops any codes.  It even will pass a GS -911 flap test with the Servo Buddy in place.

 

The flap is noise abatement and that is it.   I used a Akra header and it is a piece of art for sure.  With the Remus 8 can and the Akra headers the bike is a bit louder but not a lot and no drone.  Basically at start it is louder because the flap is gone so the bike is running like it would be around 35-4000 RPM with the flap open.  Other then that new headers and a can with the silencer in is a great sound to me.akra+art+exhaust.JPG

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Bill Spurgeon
22 minutes ago, LAF said:

You can buy a header from Akra or Remus for 1 K with no flap.   Why would you buy a stock set of headers for 2K?  You can gut the stock motor and use a Servo Buddy and that stops any codes.  It even will pass a GS -911 flap test with the Servo Buddy in place.

 

The flap is noise abatement and that is it.   I used a Akra header and it is a piece of art for sure.  With the Remus 8 can and the Akra headers the bike is a bit louder but not a lot and no drone.  Basically at start it is louder because the flap is gone so the bike is running like it would be around 35-4000 RPM with the flap open.  Other then that new headers and a can with the silencer in is a great sound to me.akra+art+exhaust.JPG

 

What is a servo buddy?  Where do you get one and where do you install it?

 

BIll

 

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AndyS

I don't get any fault lights at all. 

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dirtrider
Bernie
5 hours ago, AndyS said:

I don't get any fault lights at all. 

Andy, did you talk to your dealer yet? I thought your bike is fairly new, shouldn't be covered under warranty?

Even here in the US, emission controls have a 5 year warranty. So this item should be covered by warranty, regardless of the purpose or usefulness.

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dirtrider
2 minutes ago, Bernie said:

Andy, did you talk to your dealer yet? I thought your bike is fairly new, shouldn't be covered under warranty?

Even here in the US, emission controls have a 5 year warranty. So this item should be covered by warranty, regardless of the purpose or usefulness.

 

Afternoon Bernie

 

That valve is rearward of the cat converter so it probably isn't considered an 'emission' control device, it is a 'noise' control device.

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LAF

After I did the write up of cleaning the flap the next time I did it I used high temp copper anti seize in the pivot on the bottom.  I think more have failed and many have no clue.

 

https://www.bmwlt.com/forums/rt-series/171474-exhaust-flap.html  

 

The link to the Servo Buddy was posted.  You can remove the motor on top and the cables, and as said the flap defaults to open(see above links picture at idle) so you have to do nothing there.  I did not weigh my stock exhaust and then my after market but it is very much lighter.

 

In my case I had to use a Servo Buddy as the flap motor and cables goes away with the Akra headers so the bike does throw a code and will lite a idiot light on the dash.  I did read where a guy made a spring that fooled the bike into thinking the cables were there but I was good with the Servo Buddy.

 

And to that and sound,  yes at start my bike is louder then the exact GS next to it but when you get to 3500 RPM or so they sound pretty much the same as far as loud or DB, but tone is so much nicer IMHO. 

 

 

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Blap

It affects torque too, you'll lose some down low.  Haven't tried it on mine but when I did it to my Ducati it was a pretty big loss I could feel.

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AndyS
12 hours ago, Bernie said:

Andy, did you talk to your dealer yet? I thought your bike is fairly new, shouldn't be covered under warranty?

Even here in the US, emission controls have a 5 year warranty. So this item should be covered by warranty, regardless of the purpose or usefulness.

 

Well, the bike is out of the 'normal' warranty period. However, I guess it may be worth an ask!

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LAF
2 hours ago, AndyS said:

 

Well, the bike is out of the 'normal' warranty period. However, I guess it may be worth an ask!

Well it is a pretty well known issue so they may get that famous "good will" BMW pays parts you pay labor.

 

It beats 2K for a new OEM header! 

 

Thing is it does not matter to the bike one way or another.  So unless the louder on start up bothers you you really have to do nothing. 

 

Or you can look at the link and use your own devices and cleaners and see if you can get it working.  I honestly think the butterfly gets caked up and the pipe gets caked up and that is that.

 

The problem would be if it stuck in the closed or idle position.  Then for sure you would have motor issues. 

 

Once again removing the flap has no effect on low end torque on my bike.  Now I do have an advantage as I am running a dyno tuned map, with a PC V with autotune installed so it auto corrects AFR based on setting in the RPM and Throttle Position cells.

 

All I know is from what I have seen OEM pipes turn into crap looks wise so I would not pay 2K for the honor of that happening again.  For 1100 bucks you can have Titanium headers and they are without a doubt a piece of art or SS for around 700 or 800 bucks.   You can put your stock exhaust can right back on and life goes on.

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Cap

For those of us who own a bike that is still under the original BMW warranty, and who would like to keep our bike in stock condition, there is an option to reduce the cost of an eventual exhaust flap malfunction.  I investigated various extended warranty plans, and found that the RPM-1 program specifically covers exhaust manifolds.  For my 2017 R1200RT with one year remaining on the BMW warranty, at this writing, I can get an extension of 60 months of warranty from RPM-1 for $1290.  

 

Assuming I keep the bike long enough to rack up at least 35k-40k miles, I think I have a significant likelihood of experiencing a flap failure.  In that case, the RPM-1 policy will cover it, and my net cost would be less than if I purchased the replacement OEM part while out of warranty.  The cost is somewhat higher than Lee's solution of an aftermarket manifold.  But, for that extra cost, I also get comprehensive coverage of other potential failures for an extra 5 years.  That seems like good value, if I continue to ride at my typical pace of about 8k miles per year I would expect to eventually have some claims.  And the warranty is transferable if I sell the bike, or (pro-rated) refundable if I cancel the policy.

 

Of course the least expensive option when the flap fails is to do nothing.  The bike will run well enough.

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Bradysdad

Be careful with RPM-1 as a company. There are several consistent negative reviews on BBB and the web, specific to claims payment and not so ethical business practices. 
 

I am Currently looking at various extended warranty options for my 17 RT and have decided to stay away from RPM due to my research. 

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MikeB60

I've got an RPM-1 extended warranty on my K1600.  They paid to repair/replace a rear tail light and water pump, no issues.  Others on the K1600 board have used them for various issues without problems as well.    

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