Michelin tire confusion

[joeb]

In another link I've remarked on my inability to get the correct tire from bike bandit. I ordered the Michelin Road 5 (170/60/17) rear.  What i got was the 5 TRAIL. Called them up and they agreed that the wrong TIRE was sent. Received a new tire about 36 hrs later. ANOTHER trail 5 !  I went on the Michelin site and THEY only show a trail rear in the size I need. Hard to find any info on the difference between trail and road.  Bike Bandit agreed that I didnt fumble finger and mistakenly order the trail version and they seem to think that a non trail version is available. Is there a difference between the two types.  ? Even tho Michelin recommended the 5s for my bike  ( in a phone call to them I was told the 4s are not the recommended version ) am I really expected to run a road 5 front and a trail rear ? Confused ,any great thoughts from you. Getting in a bind time wise as i need tires mounted before this Sunday and this is running into 2 weeks of back and forth trying to get the proper tires.  Thanks much.

[dirtrider]

8 hours ago, joeb said:

In another link I've remarked on my inability to get the correct tire from bike bandit. I ordered the Michelin Road 5 (170/60/17) rear.  What i got was the 5 TRAIL. Called them up and they agreed that the wrong TIRE was sent. Received a new tire about 36 hrs later. ANOTHER trail 5 !  I went on the Michelin site and THEY only show a trail rear in the size I need. Hard to find any info on the difference between trail and road.  Bike Bandit agreed that I didnt fumble finger and mistakenly order the trail version and they seem to think that a non trail version is available. Is there a difference between the two types.  ? Even tho Michelin recommended the 5s for my bike  ( in a phone call to them I was told the 4s are not the recommended version ) am I really expected to run a road 5 front and a trail rear ? Confused ,any great thoughts from you. Getting in a bind time wise as i need tires mounted before this Sunday and this is running into 2 weeks of back and forth trying to get the proper tires.  Thanks much.

 

Morning Joeb

 

My chart only shows the 170/60/17 listed in the 'trail' version not the 'road' version so you might have to call Michelin to see what they recommend. Maybe the 'trail"  will work but it is listed as an adventure type tire (see what Michelin has to say)

 

You probably don't want to use the 'trail' 5 as that is more of an Adventure Bike tire not a Road Bike tire. (I'm not sure why Michelin chose to use such similar sounding names on a road tire & an adventure tire).

 

One of the problems that you encounter when buying from most on-line major tire sellers (like Bike Bandit) is that they don't actually stock the tires themselves, they simply drop-ship from a (local to you) tire wholesaler like Tucker Rocky.   

 

 

 

 

[joeb]

Thanks DR. I may be stuck with a 5 front and 4 rear if i can locate one in my area. I've run dissimilar brands before with out problem. Thoughts. ?

[dirtrider]

18 minutes ago, joeb said:

Thanks DR. I may be stuck with a 5 front and 4 rear if i can locate one in my area. I've run dissimilar brands before with out problem. Thoughts. ?

 

Morning Joeb

 

I have mixed & matched motorcycle tires for most of my riding career. Seldom had any issues in doing that.

 

You still might want to call   Michelin & see what they suggest. (don't just talk to the phone rep, see if the rep will connect you to a motorcycle-side tire engineer).

[joeb]

Will do .Thanks much.

[Pappy35]

What are you riding? An RT takes a 180 rear.

[Twisties]

IMHO, any tire that meets the specs for size, speed and load rating.  Since you are speaking of a track day, you might want to consider a sport tire, rather than a sport touring tire.  For touring a Michelin Trail wouldn't bother me too much on an RT if the size, speed and load rating are right, after all the GS guys mostly sport tour anyway....  but IDK about for a track day...

I am baffled they said not to use PR4's, assuming size, speed and load rating are good.

[Twisties]

1 hour ago, Pappy35 said:

What are you riding? An RT takes a 180 rear.

From his other thread, I believe it's an '03 1150 RT.

[joeb]

It is an 03 r1150rt. It takes a 170 / 60 / 17. Due to holiday weekend I can't get in touch with many. Will call Michelin tomorrow.  My suspicion is the sidewalls on trail are a little stiffer. Like the GTs. That is why I was looking forward to the plain 5. I wanted a more compliant sidewall. .

 If I can't justify a trail rear, I'll try to pick up a 4. I go thru 2 sets a season so im not looking for a track day tire. Don't want to buy 3 sets. I ride aggressively enough with street tires.

Not looking to be Valentino Rossi, ( that said in deference to the  Marc Marquez haters ) love to pick up a few pointers from a professional while riding in a safer environment than a mountain road.  Anyway if you see a guy at Road America on snow tires , it will probably be me. Say hi.

Appreciate all your input.

[realshelby]

I have run the "Trail" versions of the PR's on the V Strom. As well as the regular version. The sidewalls are the same. Mounting and demounting feel the same. According to Michelin literature the only difference is that the trail version has a softer center compound compared to the regular version. Those were 150/70/17's on the rear of that but I think all trail series were built with the softer compound. 

[joeb]

Here is the update. Called Michelin got a rep who knew nothing, called back and got someone who is willing to call the engineering dept. Waiting for call back. 

He had limited info but according to his tech sheet he said the trail and road have same compound. I'm trying to find out if the trail 5 would be an improvement over the road 4gt. Seems  I'm not the only one who doesn't know the difference. Hopefully I'll get an official answer today. 

To be continued.........

[dirtrider]

16 hours ago, realshelby said:

I have run the "Trail" versions of the PR's on the V Strom. As well as the regular version. The sidewalls are the same. Mounting and demounting feel the same. According to Michelin literature the only difference is that the trail version has a softer center compound compared to the regular version. Those were 150/70/17's on the rear of that but I think all trail series were built with the softer compound. 

 

Morning Terry

 

This would seem backwards to what normal  sport touring tires require as Sport Touring tires usually have a harder center compound (for longer tire wear) & a softer outer compound (for better cornering). I'm not saying it isn't true but if it is then that would make the 'trail' version less suitable for long mileage straight line tire life. 

 

Lots of different takes on the road/trail  tire differences-- The below is from an MCN article testing  the Road 5 tire.

 

"Although we tested the standard Road 5 there is also a trail version, which uses the same tread and compounds, with a slightly tweaked carcass, to accommodate a higher centre of gravity and softer suspension" (IDK about this but that is what they published anyhow)

 

Obviously, just because it is written in a magazine doesn't make it the truth so still no (real) conclusive data.

[joeb]

Running into problems getting the correct tires. Just noticed the font tire is the wrong size. Running out of time and dont know if i want to play the waiting on ups game. Loval shop can install metzler 01. Good tire ?? Dont know much about them . Thanks again.

[realshelby]

5 hours ago, dirtrider said:

 

Morning Terry

 

This would seem backwards to what normal  sport touring tires require as Sport Touring tires usually have a harder center compound (for longer tire wear) & a softer outer compound (for better cornering). I'm not saying it isn't true but if it is then that would make the 'trail' version less suitable for long mileage straight line tire life. 

 

Lots of different takes on the road/trail  tire differences-- The below is from an MCN article testing  the Road 5 tire.

 

"Although we tested the standard Road 5 there is also a trail version, which uses the same tread and compounds, with a slightly tweaked carcass, to accommodate a higher centre of gravity and softer suspension" (IDK about this but that is what they published anyhow)

 

Obviously, just because it is written in a magazine doesn't make it the truth so still no (real) conclusive data.

The PR3 Trail was built the same as I recall. I have not read about tweaks of the carcass from an "official" source, but as you state it is sometimes hard to judge accuracy of some reports. Again, the tires seemed to feel the same but that is not an objective test. However, the picture I have attached is one I have seen on the Michelin site back when I bought these the first time. I too wonder about the thought behind the softer center. While I got 8,500 miles out of the rear PR3 Trail on the DL 650, I only got a wee bit over 4,500 miles on the rear PR4 Trail. Same bike, same rider. That was the last PR I have bought....

[GordonB]

Why not just get some PR4 GT's?

[joeb]

Officially from Michelin. The trail tires have a slightly more compliant carcass for dealing with sand and soft surfaces.

Why didn't I just order pr4 hrs ? 

Ran them the last couple of sets and loved them. Figured I'd try the 5s as they are touted as an improvement in wet over the 4s.

Ended up with the Metzler Roadtec 01s. Will see how i like them in comparison to the Michelins.

On a positive note...

Bike Bandit who's website offered the road 5s for sale ( even tho they don't exist in the size I need for the rear ) gave me no problem when I said I was returning all 3 tires. I will definitely consider them for future purchases

[realshelby]

On 5/28/2019 at 9:33 AM, dirtrider said:

 

 

 

Lots of different takes on the road/trail  tire differences-- The below is from an MCN article testing  the Road 5 tire.

 

"Although we tested the standard Road 5 there is also a trail version, which uses the same tread and compounds, with a slightly tweaked carcass, to accommodate a higher centre of gravity and softer suspension" (IDK about this but that is what they published anyhow)

 

Obviously, just because it is written in a magazine doesn't make it the truth so still no (real) conclusive data.

I have spent some time trying to find out about the difference in the "Trail" carcass compared to the other Pilot Road series tires. Nothing I can find on any Michelin site says the Trail series has a different carcass. Nor can I find anything saying it would have the same carcass as the "GT" version. I am still thinking the carcass is the same as the standard Pilot Road in that size. I am also thinking any mention of different carcass is simply confusion/poor journalism by those that have written that there is a difference. Perhaps made worse by the fact the GT version does have a different carcass. 

Regardless, they are good tires for those that never see wet unpaved roads. But I would never again buy the Trail version when the standard was available in the size I need due to my experience of lower rear tire mileage than expected. What the purpose of a softer center would be, I have no idea........

[dirtrider]

46 minutes ago, realshelby said:

I have spent some time trying to find out about the difference in the "Trail" carcass compared to the other Pilot Road series tires. Nothing I can find on any Michelin site says the Trail series has a different carcass. Nor can I find anything saying it would have the same carcass as the "GT" version. I am still thinking the carcass is the same as the standard Pilot Road in that size. I am also thinking any mention of different carcass is simply confusion/poor journalism by those that have written that there is a difference. Perhaps made worse by the fact the GT version does have a different carcass. 

Regardless, they are good tires for those that never see wet unpaved roads. But I would never again buy the Trail version when the standard was available in the size I need due to my experience of lower rear tire mileage than expected. What the purpose of a softer center would be, I have no idea........

 

Morning Terry

 

Yes, still very confusing especially after Joeb's (from the horses mouth) quote directly from Michelin engineering. 

 

--Officially from Michelin. The trail tires have a slightly more compliant carcass for dealing with sand and soft surfaces.

[realshelby]

I didn't turn that up in my search. Again, I was only interested in actual Michelin propaganda. Not what journalists or vendors wrote. 

On 5/28/2019 at 10:07 PM, joeb said:

Officially from Michelin. The trail tires have a slightly more compliant carcass for dealing with sand and soft surfaces.

 

Was this found on a Michelin site? Just trying to get the facts on this as there is a LOT of misinformation on it. 

[dirtrider]

5 minutes ago, realshelby said:

I didn't turn that up in my search. Again, I was only interested in actual Michelin propaganda. Not what journalists or vendors wrote. 

Was this found on a Michelin site? Just trying to get the facts on this as there is a LOT of misinformation on it. 

 

 

Morning Terry

 

I believe it was from an actual  phone call to Michelin as he was waiting for a call-back from Michelin engineering just prior to posting that (hopefully Joeb will come back & clarify that).

[joeb]

On 5/30/2019 at 8:44 AM, dirtrider said:

 

 

Morning Terry

 

I believe it was from an actual  phone call to Michelin as he was waiting for a call-back from Michelin engineering just prior to posting that (hopefully Joeb will come back & clarify that).

 

 

Hi. I called the Michelin customer  number and spoke to a rep. He didn't really have answers but said he would contact the engineering dept. I asked for that number but was told it is internal communication only. He called me back about 4 hrs later with the info I posted.  He also said he was told Michelin doesn't recommend mixing the street with the trail.

My gut feeling is that I don't fully trust the info I received. I would like to see someone else confirm.  Just seems suspect to me when the channels for info are so obscure.  Hope this helps.