Beginner Brake Bleed and Basics. r1150rt (best tutorial, broken links)

[rhetoric]

Rookie brake bleed on my r1150rt 2004.  The most important question is question #1

1). Do I have the best thread/video/write-up for my brakes? I've seen lots of "there are lots of thread/video/write-ups" comments, but most of the  links are broken.

What I DO have..  (but none seem to be perfectly matched to my situation/year/setup.) 

-hager and gilman write up, (which seems to be the best, in many ways -- the closest to what's on my 04).  http://users.rcn.com/dehager/service/service_abs3.pdf
-IllinoisBMWrider has two nice video talk throughs with the SERVO type, and they are really close. Same system, but the SERVO is different... the one on the K1200LT seems pretty close!
-mazbymoto video looks like the right SERVO but he's bleeding all four valves, whereas dirtrider says I only need to do the two tall ones.  and it's in a foreign language.  And :-) 
-I have the owners manual CD from Beemer but I can't get it to play on my computer!!!! 
-R1150rt EVO (?!?!) brake bleed from KMG_365 on this page.  EVO  Is that just a strange SERVO.  IT's just the control unit bleed, but that's what I'm most worried about anyway.
 

2). Do I really only need to bleed the two tall valves on my servo?  Some tutorials say all four, including the short ones.  I'm sure I say on this site (but I can't find it now, of course!) that only the tall ones -- one bleeder for the front (the tall reservoir) and one bleeder for the back (the low reservoir).

3). hand pump suction (I have access to one) VS pump the brakes and drain.  Opinions?

 

Details:
-16K on the clock when I bought it last year -- 20K on the clock now.
- Previous owner must have changed the fluid at least once because it's got stainless braided lines.
-I bent my 7mm wrench already!  Have all the towels, tools, DOT 4, qtips, and etc. 
-buddy is coming over who has done BMWs before with Servo, but not my version.

Anyway... thanks for the help.  I hope brake bleed threads aren't as annoying as "what kind of oil do you use" threads.

Paul

[dirtrider]

43 minutes ago, rhetoric said:

Rookie brake bleed on my r1150rt 2004.  The most important question is question #1

1). Do I have the best thread/video/write-up for my brakes? I've seen lots of "there are lots of thread/video/write-ups" comments, but most of the  links are broken.

What I DO have..  (but none seem to be perfectly matched to my situation/year/setup.) 

-hager and gilman write up, (which seems to be the best, in many ways -- the closest to what's on my 04).  http://users.rcn.com/dehager/service/service_abs3.pdf
-IllinoisBMWrider has two nice video talk throughs with the SERVO type, and they are really close. Same system, but the SERVO is different... the one on the K1200LT seems pretty close!
-mazbymoto video looks like the right SERVO but he's bleeding all four valves, whereas dirtrider says I only need to do the two tall ones.  and it's in a foreign language.  And :-) 
-I have the owners manual CD from Beemer but I can't get it to play on my computer!!!! 
-R1150rt EVO (?!?!) brake bleed from KMG_365 on this page.  EVO  Is that just a strange SERVO.  IT's just the control unit bleed, but that's what I'm most worried about anyway.
 

2). Do I really only need to bleed the two tall valves on my servo?  Some tutorials say all four, including the short ones.  I'm sure I say on this site (but I can't find it now, of course!) that only the tall ones -- one bleeder for the front (the tall reservoir) and one bleeder for the back (the low reservoir).

3). hand pump suction (I have access to one) VS pump the brakes and drain.  Opinions?

 

Details:
-16K on the clock when I bought it last year -- 20K on the clock now.
- Previous owner must have changed the fluid at least once because it's got stainless braided lines.
-I bent my 7mm wrench already!  Have all the towels, tools, DOT 4, qtips, and etc. 
-buddy is coming over who has done BMWs before with Servo, but not my version.

Anyway... thanks for the help.  I hope brake bleed threads aren't as annoying as "what kind of oil do you use" threads.

Paul

 

Afternoon   rhetoric

I'm not sure that there is a best procedure. There are many procedures that do things slightly different but get the same results.

 

As far as EVO or Servo, the EVO is just a BMW marketing catch name for the BMW I-ABS system. The servo just tells us that is a servo type braking system. (the actual brake system is the  I-ABS)

 

As for bleeding all the ABS module bleed  nipples or just the tall ones, if you know the bike's history & the brakes have been serviced on time & every time then you can shortcut the bleed procedure & use only the tall ones.

 

If you are not sure of the brake service background, or want to do the best job possible, then do ALL the module bleeders & in the correct order,  (that bleeding shortcut was meant for dealer service  to allow them to cut the service time 'NOT' as a better procedure).

 

Do not use a hand vacuum pump on the I-ABS system,  use the key-on servo pumps to bleed the wheel circuit sides of the system & the control side is easy as both the hand lever & brake pedal can easily be reached as you open/close the  bleeders on the ABS controller.

 

  

 

Bleed in the following sequence, using front brake lever

-- front metering cylinder (1),
--front integral circuit (2),
-- front control circuit (3) --and then
--front metering cylinder (1) for the second time.

 

Bleed in the following sequence, using rear brake pedal

-- rear metering cylinder (1),
-- rear integral circuit (2),
-- rear control circuit (3) -- and then
-- rear metering cylinder (1) for the second time.

 

Use the above module  picture I posted to determine circuit numbers. (I recommend the original procedure as it is more thorough)

 

Be sure to keep the reservoirs full of fluid during the bleeding process.

 

Put a long clear hose on the controller bleed nipples to vent the used fluid into a  container & away from the motorcycle (brake fluid can really damage the paint & electrical components).

 

Also toss a clean box cutter blade or a clean US quarter (25 cent piece) into the front master cylinder reservoir to keep the squirt-back inside  the reservoir as you pump the lever.

 

Also cover the dash  & painted plastic with plastic garbage bags, or a good plastic tarp,  to prevent damage if some brake fluid gets away from you.

 

Unless you have specialized wrenches you might have  a problem getting on a couple of the controller bleed nipples. If so then remove the main wire harness plug going into the brake controller but BE SURE to use duct tape over the exposed open cavity to keep ALL the brake fluid out of the controller electronics. 

 

Wheel side circuits are pretty straight forward, just keep the internal fluid reservoirs full  & don't overfill when finished (if you fill to top line & brake pads are worn then the fluid will  back-flow out of the vent lines when you push the pads back to change a tire)-- Or push pads back into calipers before doing the final fill .

[Andre1150]

Afternoon Rhetoric,

In addition to what DR has said above, this little tool helped me in doing the service.  Also, take lots of photographs of what you are moving and removing.

 

https://www.beemerboneyard.com/abs3funnel.html

 

 

[rhetoric]

Great feedback.  For the record, I just cracked the reserveiors and the fluid is absolutely clean and clear.  Maybe looks yellow, but not dirty. I know the previous owner changed the fluid because he put braided stainless steel lines on the bike.  Of course, I don't know how long that fluid has been in the bike.  I rode it for about 5000 miles last Summer.  If this were your bike would you change it or leave it? Even if I tried to change it if never be able to tell the difference between the old and new fluid.

[dirtrider]

6 minutes ago, rhetoric said:

Great feedback.  For the record, I just cracked the reserveiors and the fluid is absolutely clean and clear.  Maybe looks yellow, but not dirty. I know the previous owner changed the fluid because he put braided stainless steel lines on the bike.  Of course, I don't know how long that fluid has been in the bike.  I rode it for about 5000 miles last Summer.  If this were your bike would you change it or leave it? Even if I tried to change it if never be able to tell the difference between the old and new fluid.

 

Afternoon   rhetoric

 

I would definitely flush/bleed the systems as that is common sense. Those BMW ABS brake modules are extremely expensive so proper system maintenance goes a long way towards preserving it's life.

 

I usually schedule the brake maintenance to coincide with other reasons to have the tupperware & fuel tank removed.  

 

If your fluid looks decent (but, keep in mind  all you can tell is the control side as you can't see the hotter operating wheel side) then you can probably wait until you are ready for other 'under plastics' services then do them all at once.

[rhetoric]

 

31 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

 

Afternoon   rhetoric

 

I would definitely flush/bleed the systems as that is common sense. Those BMW ABS brake modules are extremely expensive so proper system maintenance goes a long way towards preserving it's life.

 

I usually schedule the brake maintenance to coincide with other reasons to have the tupperware & fuel tank removed.  

 

If your fluid looks decent (but, keep in mind  all you can tell is the control side as you can't see the hotter operating wheel side) then you can probably wait until you are ready for other 'under plastics' services then do them all at once.

 
As I suspected.  Guess I'll look for a colored DOT 4!  Will that be a special order (since I"ve no Beemer dealer around here), or are there autoparts stores likely to carry colored fluid?

Paul

[Oldrider51]

15 hours ago, rhetoric said:

 

 
As I suspected.  Guess I'll look for a colored DOT 4!  Will that be a special order (since I"ve no Beemer dealer around here), or are there autoparts stores likely to carry colored fluid?

Paul

I have done this several times over the years of owning my 04 1100S, I have used the ATE Super Blue Racing DOT 4 fluid and as the name indicates it is blue in color however I have found it hard to find in auto parts stores. I have been using Pentosin DOT4LV for the last two years. It is not colored but has fairly high dry and wet boiling points. I just flush more than usual and watch the color of the fluid being expelled as the older fluid is usually a little darker.   The Pentosin I have found at Autozone and O'Reilly auto parts stores. Good luck.

Edited March 24, 2019 by 041100S
Added information

[PAS]

I believe colored brake fluid is now illegal in the USA.

[dirtrider]

45 minutes ago, PAS said:

I believe colored brake fluid is now illegal in the USA.

 

 

Morning PAS

 

This is true but the statue has around for years but for some  reason it is now being enforced more rigorously. 

 

"S5.1.14 Fluid color. Brake fluid and hydraulic system mineral oil shall be of the color indicated:

 

DOT 3, DOT 4, and DOT 5.1 non-SBBF—colorless to amber.

DOT 5 SBBF—purple.

Hydraulic system mineral oil—green."

[rhetoric]

There is somebody (probably 200 somebodies) working for the government (full time... making 86K) dreaming up laws to monitor and regulate the color of brake fluid.  Oy vey!

 

 

[Claudio]

Quote

hager and gilman write up, (which seems to be the best, in many ways -- the closest to what's on my 04). 

 

That is what I use to guide me on my 2003 RT. Its very well written and easy to follow.

[clem]

On a related note, does anyone have a source for the ABS pump bleed nipples ( for bleeding the control circuits)?    Mine are a bit chewed up from 15 years of annual brake services.....

 

Any info appreciated.

[dirtrider]

28 minutes ago, clem said:

On a related note, does anyone have a source for the ABS pump bleed nipples ( for bleeding the control circuits)?    Mine are a bit chewed up from 15 years of annual brake services.....

 

Any info appreciated.

 

Afternoon Clem

 

You really should start your own thread on YOUR problem as you are hijacking rhetoric's thread into your problem (not very fair to rhetoric).

 

A quick answer to your question-- Either remove a couple of yours then try to match up at a local auto parts store. Or try calling Module Masters as they service the BMW  ABS module so they might have some to sell you, or maybe recommend a place to buy some.

 

Don't reply to this here as I won't respond, please start you own thread on 'your' request if you need further information.

[rhetoric]

Changed it per the suggestions.  Found the Hager/Gilman write up most helpful. Very clean (no chunks of goo and I'm pretty sure what I did see was just crud in the bleeder), but definitely darker than it looked in the reserviors.  

 

Fairly painless, especially with the funnel tool.  My bent box end wrench was very helpful for the control bleeders, and I used a small pair of vice grips so I could get some purchase for the initial crank in those same bleeders.  I can't imagine doing it without a buddy... Lots of steps that were made allot easier by having an extra pair of hands.  

 

I bent my wrench just using map gas.  

 

Some other chores to do (seat shims and push rods) before I test it, but I'm pretty sure it'll be fine.  Not nearly as daunting as I anticipated.  Thanks again for the help!

[Claudio]

On 3/30/2019 at 2:57 PM, rhetoric said:

My bent box end wrench was very helpful for the control bleeders

 

Upon servicing the brakes the first time to changing my stock bleeder valves for speed bleeders, the bleeder screws were darn tight.   I've always been paranoid about breaking a bleeder with a wrench so I use an extra deep 8mm socket (I think its an 8mm).  Applying nice uniform twisting force and using the longer socket makes the initial loosening and final tighten fool proof.