NoKick90 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Hello to the group from "NoKick90" in SW VA. It's been snowing today but now the sun's out - all in all not a great day to ride. We've had about 1 day a week that invited two-wheeled activity this year so far. By the way, the NK90 moniker is in memory of my last BMW motorcycle - a 1974 R90S that was my first bike with no kick start lever. It got taken for a lot of jump starts. On the most recent road trip it became clear that further riding would require a bike with electronic cruise control, so the search is on. The current mount, a 2008 Bandit 1250ABS, has served well, but it's not the most comfortable tourer, even with risers, lowered pegs, and various custom seats/windshields. R1200RT has always been at or near the top of the short list of candidates for replacement. Once a decade ago I rented one for the day and covered a large chunk of Utah and Wyoming following a speedy tour guide on his K1300GT. The bike was just about flawless, despite the wind, high elevation, and about 36k miles on the clock. On the down side, the shop guys there at EagleRider SLC said they had to put a lot more money into BMW's to keep them in good shape, as compared to the Hondas and H-D's. At any rate, there's a BMW for sale here in the neighborhood that looks pretty good on paper: 2009 R1200RT with all 3 bags and 17k miles. Options include cruise, heated grips, a Corbin with the little backrests, Akrapovic can, and low suspension. No ESA or heated seats. The PR4's went on in '16, about 4k miles ago. Owned from new by the seller, who says health issues are keeping him off it. Records show recalls for the usual suspects of fuel pump and strip, and wheel flange. He has the letter with extended warranty for the fuel strip. Engine oil has been changed at the dealer, as was final drive lube at 12k. What should I be thinking about giving for this bike? (He's asking $8995.) Possible problems not covered above seem to include TB cams and the rear brake servo. Are there further risks lurking out there that I should consider before making an offer? Other candidates for the next ride include FJR and -09, Ninja 1000, and various BMW K models. But the RT just seems to beat them all with its combination of lighter weight, performance, high-speed stability, range, and comfort. Cost is an issue, and while some of the Asian bikes might be had for less, there would still be some expense to bring them up to standards. I plan to do all maintenance and necessary mods at home. Looking forward to hearing from some of you, and TIA, NoKick90 Link to comment
TEWKS Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Sounds like a nice bike but shooting from the hip (ie not looking it up) the price feels about two grand too high. Welcome to the forum! Link to comment
TEWKS Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Had to look... 2009 BMW R1200RT Prices List Price Low Retail Average Retail Base Price $16,800 $4,550 $5,985 Link to comment
RTinNC Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Yeah .... price seems a tad high but hey if you love the bike? My buddy just sold his 2013 that was mint with about 34K miles for $8500 I believe. Actually that bike is still for sale in NC near Blowing Rock if interested. Long story but the guy who bought it had not ridden in like 30 years and bought it without ever riding a RT. After a week he felt the bike was too much for him. You also have a good BMW dealer in Salem VA so you should be in good hands with a BMW. Link to comment
NoKick90 Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 The last time I looked at a bike in Salem it was a used R1200RT that had very bad manners on the highway; no idea what was wrong [felt like something loose in the telelever] but they ignored my observation and didn't even want to talk about a trade. Left a very bad taste. Your [RTinNC] prospect for a 2013 in NC sounds quite interesting, though. Could you please get me some more details on that? As tewks noted, the local 2009's price is stupid high. It's February, for Pete's sake! tia, NoKick90 Link to comment
Indy Dave Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Welcome NoKick90 - looking forward to seeing what you end up with. Link to comment
RTinNC Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 5 hours ago, NoKick90 said: The last time I looked at a bike in Salem it was a used R1200RT that had very bad manners on the highway; no idea what was wrong [felt like something loose in the telelever] but they ignored my observation and didn't even want to talk about a trade. Left a very bad taste. Your [RTinNC] prospect for a 2013 in NC sounds quite interesting, though. Could you please get me some more details on that? As tewks noted, the local 2009's price is stupid high. It's February, for Pete's sake! tia, NoKick90 Sent you a note on the 2013. Let me know if you need more info. Just shoot me a PM. 1 Link to comment
NoKick90 Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 6 hours ago, RTinNC said: Sent you a note on the 2013. Let me know if you need more info. Just shoot me a PM. Thanks, RT: your note explains seller's remark about the top case, which had me mystified. Going to Mardi Gras via CLT next week, so can stop by Caldwell County and check out that RT12. Lots of good folks on here! NoKick90 1 Link to comment
Paul De Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Hi and Welcome to the board. As the vintages of RT get newer it seems that handling should tend toward neutral and well planted as the Telelever design was tweaked along the way. My '99 was rock stable but needing a deliberate yank on the bars to flick it around in the twisties. Not sure of the pre waterhead R1200s but my 2015 RT is very responsive needing only a light hand to get it to change directions. I would say if the front felt really off in terms of secure feeling, something is amiss, and if not mechanical in nature it could be if the tires were near end of life the tendency is toward to heavy steering with the Telelever suspension. I had a laugh at the comment about BMW being expensive to maintain VS an HD. They do have the advantage of no valve adjustments with hydraulic lifters, but the running joke in these parts is HD stands for Hundred Dollars as that is the multiple units of cash needed to buy accessories or maintain them at the shop. To be fair I have teased to my HD ridding brethren that BMW stands for Big Money Wad as that is needed when walking into the shop. To me, if you don't do at least some maintenance yourself, all motorcycles are expensive to maintain. My reality is my '99 has been near flawless with only a front ABS sensor needing to be replaced which was when that bike was still under warranty. Other than gas, oil, filters, tires, a bulb or two, that has been it. I do my own valve clearance maintenance, which on a BMW from that vintage is near to the bottom of a hard to do yourself scale. Takes about 1.5 beers to complete valve check/adjust(I like beer and work slow). My 2015 has too few miles to say, but I did have to buy some new tools to maintain it...a notebook computer and GS911 CANbus interface. Link to comment
NoKick90 Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Paul De said: I had a laugh at the comment about BMW being expensive to maintain VS an HD. They do have the advantage of no valve adjustments with hydraulic lifters, but the running joke in these parts is HD stands for Hundred Dollars as that is the multiple units of cash needed to buy accessories or maintain them at the shop. To be fair I have teased to my HD ridding brethren that BMW stands for Big Money Wad as that is needed when walking into the shop. Hah! Should have added that the mechanic admitted that most of their Harleys didn't even average 200 miles per rented day, whereas the BMW's tripled that or more. When I asked him which H-D could hold a steady 130 or close to it, he laughed and said he wouldn't want to try cruising at more than 85 on any H-D. OTOH, most of the riders I've talked to about their BMW's mention that repairs and upgrades tend to be measured in $500 increments. For the RT's I'm looking at, think of the metal TB cams @ $450 plus tax and shipping, and who knows how much for a rear brake servo unit? A few years ago I tried out an R1150RS whose owner showed his receipts for a brake servo replacement that amounted to EIGHT of those $500 units. A friend has an R1150RT that he just parked rather than pay for that repair; he now rides an Africa Twin. One of the truly wonderful features of the internet is the way we can consult with each other and watch YouTube to learn maintenance and upgrade routines that used to be the province of professional mechanics. So, given that we can now take care of most mechanical problems ourselves, which model bought used is likely to cost less to maintain, hex head or cam? Assuming similar miles and all service records, of course, and MY 2008 to 2013. TIA, NoKick90 Link to comment
VaR1200RT Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 If you shop around you can find better deals, especially if you are willing to travel a little distance to pick up your bike. I picked up a 2012 last spring with less miles, more options, new tires and a Russel day long seat for less than your guy is asking . Look around and you can find some great deals. Link to comment
NoKick90 Posted February 19, 2019 Author Share Posted February 19, 2019 After I quoted some of the numbers you guys had supplied, the owner of the 2009 got back to me with a $7k bottom line. To reiterate: 2009 R1200RT with all 3 bags and 17k miles. Options include cruise, heated grips, a Corbin with the little backrests, Akrapovic can, and low suspension. No ESA or heated seats. The PR4's went on in '16, about 4k miles ago. Owned from new by the seller, who says health issues are keeping him off it. Records show recalls for the usual suspects of fuel pump and strip, and wheel flange. He has the letter with extended warranty for the fuel strip. Engine oil has been changed at the dealer, as was final drive lube at 12k. With a 30" inseam, I'll gladly try it out. Are there any disadvantages to the factory low suspension, other than reduced ground clearance? TIA, NoKick90 Ps. The other model I've been considering is the Ninja 1000 ABS. My insurance agent just got back to me with a quote from Progressive: $1351 for liability and comprehensive. I've always had my bike insurance with Progressive, but that is likely about to change. 68 y/o rider with no bike-related claims or tickets in the past 30 years. Link to comment
TEWKS Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 I think the low suspension will be fine. I have heard here or there that the low suspension GSA may have a slightly harsher ride than the regular model. Can't confirm myself. 7K is more in line. I usually wouldn't pay extra for add on accessories but the top case & seat are useful ones. Sometimes we just need that little something to make us feel like we're getting a good deal. I say the Akr can gets it done! Good luck which ever direction you go. Link to comment
RTinNC Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 That sounds like a fair deal but for me its always actually SEEING the bike in person and even more important talking with the current owner. I always go with my gut feeling after having that conversation even if the bike may be priced a bit higher than others. I figure I plan on owning the bike for quite a few years and want it to be the best deal for "me" which many times is not the cheapest bike available. Good luck ! Link to comment
wbw6cos Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 I think "bottomline" is good for talking on the phone, but the seller could be swayed. Person to person conversation can really affect that bottom line, especially if he really wants to sell it. Too many buyers just sit at the keyboard surfing the world wide web and expect sellers to cater. Sometimes it doesn't work that way. He may be tired of all the "tire kickers." Good luck! Link to comment
Rougarou Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 What's your limit? There's a 2008 rt in the Charlotte area with 40k on it for $5500 and there's a 2016 rt in the Greensboro area with 12k on it for $15900. 4700 As far as knowing the history, I have no idea what the history of my RT was except that it was four years old with 5800 miles on it. I never spoke to the owner, only the owners wife and she didn't know anything about the bike. I never test rode it either.......essentially went off of a gut feeling that the bike was good to go. When we pulled up, the wife actually stated, "yes it's my husband's bike and yes he knows I'm selling it"........quite a nice spunky 'ole lady. Link to comment
TEWKS Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 57 minutes ago, Living the Dream said: When we pulled up, the wife actually stated, "yes it's my husband's bike and yes he knows I'm selling it"........quite a nice spunky 'ole lady. And how her husband really feels about that decision. Link to comment
NoKick90 Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 "... or - NO!!!" Classic! No one has ever presented an "A or B" choice in quite that way, but at the end of my test ride today I had to say that SWMBO had to be OK with the decision to buy. The bike had a few surprises: first was that I had forgotten what a long-legged beast she is: merging on to the Interstate I just left it in second until at cruising speed, and there was none of the low-end grunt I've gotten used to in my last 4 bikes - all in-line 4's; second was how BIG she felt compared to the Asian 4-cylinders, but this feeling quickly subsided as muscle memory returned and stability among the Freightliners and Kenworths appeared; and third was that the custom Corbin seat and my ischium bones did not get along. Back to the house and we installed the factory low seat, which did just fine in "high" position and also encouraged using the proper posture [core muscles, etc]. This was a lightly-equipped version. I left the vest at home, not knowing whether there was a fit for the power feed [turns out there was]. Also wore medium-weight gloves to get a better feel for the grips and controls. IMHO, anyone who says heated grips are adequate to keeping a rider warm enough at 40* and 80-90 mph is one cold-blooded character! Seat was not heated. Windscreen was just fine. Footpegs seemed small and oddly-placed, but really that was the only ergo drawback. He had up-and-back risers that suited me well; as we are the same size and age, this is to be expected. Another, pleasant surprise was the deep compartment that was plenty big enough to hold a few essential emergency items a solo rider should carry. The original owner and I got along famously as age-mates from neighboring counties with very similar backgrounds and life experiences; no surprise that this would occur among RT aficionados. He had come to BMW's after years spent on H-D's and Hondas. I refrained from observing that I have never owned either of those other brands. The bike was as advertised, that is to say flawless. His Akrapovic can has dual outlets and two different sets of baffles; he had the louder set installed and I was unimpressed. In the end he said he'd knock off another $500 if I didn't want the Corbin and the Akra. Are those items worth $500 on the market? Had hoped to take along a riding friend who is a retired mechanic. He and his son have both had hex-heads, and his current RT has a wet one. He was of the opinion that there was no particular advantage to the cam over the hex, but that there is a huge leap up if you go wet. Well, wet is not in my price range. One last question: tach read 4100 and speedometer 79. Is that accurate? Enjoying the ride, NoKick90 Link to comment
wbw6cos Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Congrats on your purchase. There are requirements for photos as proof that it did happen, ya know. HA Forgive me asking, but did he go below his bottomline? I am glad you are enjoying the ride! Link to comment
NoKick90 Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 No purchase as of yet. If it's pix you're after, here's the link to CL ad: https://roanoke.craigslist.org/mcy/d/covington-bmw-r1200rt-motorcycle/6799735735.html NoKick90 Link to comment
RTinNC Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 OK ... so you saw the bike and it was flawless, you rode the bike and liked it, you met the owner and bonded with him (THAT is important to me when buying a used bike) it is a one owner bike and the PRICE IS RIGHT. SO JUST BUY IT !! All the boxes are checked so if you want an RT just do it. Think about it ... at $7000 if you hate the bike you can turn around and pretty easily sell it for the same price. This is as low risk of a motorcycle purchase as you can get. Beyond this you risk over thinking it. Yes 4100 at about 78 MPH sounds correct. Yes ... $500 for the 2 accessories sounds right to ... maybe a bit low depending on the condition of the items. But if me I would take the bike WITH the items and if you don't like them you should easily be able to get $500 for them. Link to comment
wbw6cos Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 9 hours ago, NoKick90 said: No purchase as of yet. If it's pix you're after, here's the link to CL ad: https://roanoke.craigslist.org/mcy/d/covington-bmw-r1200rt-motorcycle/6799735735.html NoKick90 Sorry, must have misread your post. i tend to do that a lot. It seems like a good looking bike from the photos. The painted-to-match top case looks pretty decent, too. With all the extras to go along with it, you can easily sell what you do not want/need and help to lower your overall price, if your budget is an issue. Good luck! Link to comment
NoKick90 Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 An agreement on price has been reached. Come Sunday, I expect to take ownership of the bike with stock seat and can. The only remaining detail is whether we want to include the Akrapovic in the deal; that will depend on how it sounds with more restrictive baffles. I will also remove the GPS mount as it interferes with the view of the instruments. No distractions like phone, intercom, tunes, or GPS, thanks! NoKick90 Link to comment
Bernie Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Welcome to the board. You mechanic friend said there’s isn’t a big difference or advantage between a HexHead and a CamHead. I have to disagree with him. Yes, the power output is the same, on paper. But the redesigned valve train makes a huge difference. The valves hardly ever need to be adjusted and the CamHeads use very little oil. The factory wind shield is also more effective and the CamHeads don’t use the fuel strip, like the HexHeads. As for heated seats, that was not an option for the low frame RT, but Sargent and maybe some other after market seat companies offer heated seats. If the factory seat is comfortable enough, you may just want to buy heated pant liners, maybe cheaper then the heated seat option and also will keep your lower legs warm. Link to comment
RTinNC Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Yep Bernie makes some good points as each vintage of RT seems to have gotten better. Hexheads were good and Camheads a little better and Wetheads better yet. But all good. My 2012 cam head GSA has never required an “adjustment “ when valves checked. in the photos neither the seat on the bike or the one pictured look to be stock. I did love the Sargent seat on my ‘06 RT good luck with you new to you RT Link to comment
NoKick90 Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 Yes, it would be shocking if each succeeding generation weren't somewhat better than the last. In the end this deal was just too good: close by one-owner bike with relatively low miles and full service history - and well-adapted to this vertically-challenged senior rider. Who knows where my returning to BMW after 39 years may lead? When I got back into riding in '04, there were 3 Triumphs in relatively quick succession, and I only left the marque when the national distributor shut down a wonderful [and close!] franchise because it didn't meet their plans for upscale showrooms in trendy locations. Owner says the seat pictured next to stock can is a factory low unit. I'll look tomorrow to see if there is a tag on the bottom side. If it ever stops raining, that is! Thanks again to this group for all your support. From now on the focus will probably be on maintenance, with perhaps a little more outlay for safer lighting. NoKick90 Link to comment
Rougarou Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Is that the low suspension WITH the stock low comfort seat.......how short was this original rider???? I've got 30" inseam on a good day and have the stock height with low Corbin seat and one cheek one toeing it just fine. Link to comment
RTinNC Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 14 hours ago, NoKick90 said: Yes, it would be shocking if each succeeding generation weren't somewhat better than the last. In the end this deal was just too good: close by one-owner bike with relatively low miles and full service history - and well-adapted to this vertically-challenged senior rider. Who knows where my returning to BMW after 39 years may lead? When I got back into riding in '04, there were 3 Triumphs in relatively quick succession, and I only left the marque when the national distributor shut down a wonderful [and close!] franchise because it didn't meet their plans for upscale showrooms in trendy locations. Owner says the seat pictured next to stock can is a factory low unit. I'll look tomorrow to see if there is a tag on the bottom side. If it ever stops raining, that is! Thanks again to this group for all your support. From now on the focus will probably be on maintenance, with perhaps a little more outlay for safer lighting. NoKick90 Maybe the low stock seat is one piece but the regular stock seat was 2 piece. Link to comment
NoKick90 Posted March 4, 2019 Author Share Posted March 4, 2019 Bought it, unloaded it, went on vacation for a week. This week is catch-up time on other projects, so it'll sit. Handled the ride home just fine with all 4 tie-down straps attached to crash bars. Seller wears VT, buyer has a V. NoKick90 Link to comment
wbw6cos Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Congrats on your purchase of a nice looking bike. Cheers! Link to comment
joakley Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Hey NoKick90, Good looking bike. I am sure you will enjoy it. I have a 07 that I am getting along well with. I am just over the hill from you in Bedford, maybe see you around some time. Link to comment
NoKick90 Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 The responses to this new owner have helped a lot, and I'm now reading back pages on the hexhead thread and catching good tips right and left. So from now the hh thread will be my main hangout. Thanks to all the members here who have chimed in. NoKick90 Link to comment
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