New R12RT stalls in 1st when stopped

[velomoto]

Got a new '06 RT which sometimes stalls under the following conditions:

- come to a full stop after downshifting to 1st

- clutch is fully pulled in

- rpm drop to around 1K, then suddenly to zero

- applying the brakes (while bike is stopped and in gear) seems to improve chances of stalling.

 

In some instances this is repeatable, that is I can restart the bike in neutral, shift to 1st where it immediately stalls again. Many times the bike doesn't stall, especially when the engine is cold.

 

The engine doesn't stall until after I come to a complete stop so perhaps it is due to the clutch not being fully disengaged? Mine was one of the "lucky" bikes which was recalled so perhaps there is a break-in issue, or the dealer didn't properly install the new parts? Thot's or suggestions before it goes back to the dealer?

 

Thanks in advance,

Greg

[sprung]

Maybe with a freinds assistance, try putting the bike on the center stand and gently simulate this situation. With the clutch pulled in fully I don't think your rear tire should spin at all. Although I will check if mine does tonight.

 

I know for a fact that on the centerstand with my bike running and in Neutral my rear tire turns just a little (maybe 1 mph) but can be stopped with very little effort. I thought maybe my clutch was out of adjustment at first but further testing showed that my Nighthawk does the same thing. Both stop when I pull the clutch in though. I'll check later to see if the wheel spins with it in 1st and the clutch pulled in.

[velomoto]

Sprung,

Thanks for the idea - I'll check this out on my bike as well.

Greg

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Sounds to me like your side stand switch is not working right or possibly the clutch switch as well.

 

The fact that you are able to, however briefly, go to idle RPM pretty well eliminates a dragging clutch. You would also feel the bike trying to pull forward if the clutch was dragging enough to stall the engine.

 

I'd be heading back to the dealer post haste and have him fix the problem. The interlocks are pretty simple beasts and shouldn't be too hard to trouble shoot on your own but, when it comes to the brain, and I use the term loosely, there might be deeper problems than you can handle.

 

The three criteriea to keeping the bike running when it is stopped are neutral, or clutch in, sidestand up. From the symtoms you describe, I'm still betting on that side stand switch.

[Mark_C]

Velo, it must have occured to you that there is quite likely a connection between this issue and the idle speed problem you reported in your other thread. A bike that sometimes idles fast and sometimes stalls is not safe to ride in my opinion.

 

Just out of interest, does you bike have the cruise control unit fitted?

[ChrisRappl]

"Applying the brakes increases the chance of stalling"

 

The additional draw from the electric pump motor probably causes the alternator to put an increased load on the engine. If it is new and tight and having a hard time running at idle, this extra alternator load might be enough to cause it to stall. How many miles on your bike?

[sprung]

I checked it out, on the centerstand, in any gear or neutral with the clutch in the rear wheel does not move. If yours does I'd suspect a misadjusted clutch.

 

I'm still not sure why when in neutral with the clutch out the rear wheel on both of my bikes moves a little?

 

I thought of your sidestand switch also but if it was that I'd think it would be more of a problem on the move, hitting bumps and such would effect it more so than when you're stopped. But considering both of the problems you're experiencing I'd say a trip to the dealer is in order.

 

Sprung,

Thanks for the idea - I'll check this out on my bike as well.

Greg

[Mark_C]

I am sure someone will tell me if I am wrong, but I think that in neutral, with the clutch engaged, the gears are still meshed but spinning on the shafts because the dogs are not engaged. It's the viscous drag of the oil that transmits a slight turning force to the back wheel.

 

With the bike in gear, and the clutch disengaged, any movement of the back wheel would be down to clutch drag. On a wet multi-plate clutch as found in your average bike, this would not be unusual and in fact very difficult to eliminate completely. On a BMW boxer which has a single-plate dry clutch (they still have haven't they?) any drag would be a bad sign I would say.

[russg]

Yes due to the velocity of the oil in the gear case some wheel turn is likely and expected in neutral and if you rev the engine a bit it will get faster.

 

--russ

[russg]

Not that this is likely, but, I had a buddy once that continuously hit the kick stand a bit at lights when moving his feet from the pegs to the road surface. This caused his bike to stall so many times I can't remember. It was very funny to be sitting at a light and hear him stop behind or beside me, you could always tell when he did it because of the loud explicative.

[sprung]

Mark,

That makes sense, I figured it had to be normal since two very different bikes both do it. Thanks for the explanation!

 

Russ,

You're right it does get faster if you rev the engine.

As for the kickstand comment, that's pretty funny. I guess you can't rule anything out, hehe.

[velomoto]

Thanks for all the excellent feedback. I had wanted to bring the bike in to the dealer today but they're closed (out riding?) on Monday's. I also wanted to look for ideas for everyone on the forum before talking with the dealership.

 

So I put the bike up on the center stand and there's no sign of any drag between the clutch and rear wheel. In fact the wheel barely moves when in neutral.

 

The more I thought about how the bike dies so suddenly I'm beginning to think this may be a case of operator error as Russ described - I do have some rather large size 13 feet which could easily be bumping the stand when I stop at lights AND I do use my left foot to support the bike... Another thought would be a faulty switch for the side stand which is somehow being activated when I'm stopped - this however seems unlikely as it should kill the engine at speed . In any case I'm going to be taking the bike in to the dealer to have the idle problem looked at and see if there are any diagnostics they can run which would uncover a cause to this problem.

 

I'm also going to try using my right foot to support the bike at stops and see if this "fixes" the problem.

 

Thanks again to everyone!

Greg

[russg]

Greg,

 

Keep us posted on what you find! Good Luck! I know the feeling about trying to reach 600. I just passed 400 and I hope to get the rest in the next week. My service manager did tell me to open it up some but not to keep it at a constant RPM above 4k. So, on the way home from their open house, I let it roll a bit. Boy, I was doing 100+ in seconds and no where near the red. Lots of good even power up in those other 4k RPM. Hope you are back in buisness soon.

--russ

[Pickaxe]

My 12RT did exactly that for the first few hundred miles and then it disapeared. Didn't have the same problem with my previous 12GS, however the 12RT has gone on to be much smoother and doesn't use oil like the 12GS.

[IT_Mike]

On a simular theme...

Does anyone know if the sidestand switch can be disconnected?

 

Mike

[velomoto]

On a simular theme...

Does anyone know if the sidestand switch can be disconnected?

 

Mike

 

Just got this checked out at the dealership. The switch on my bike was working properly so for now I'm going to assume the cause is "operator error" and try to be more aware of what my oversized feet are doing. Hopefully this will eliminate the problem - nothing like diagnosing intermittant failures.

 

Mike, to answer your questions, the service manager did say the switch "could" be disabled. But after giving me a nice long fisheye for asking such a question, he added that he could not do mod nor could he show me how to disable the switch. It's considered a safety feature. Guess the concern is that if he showed me how to disable it, and as a result I ended up in an accident then there's a good chance I'd be able to retire from the lawsuit settlement.

 

Cheers,

Greg

[Ken H.]

On a simular theme...

Does anyone know if the sidestand switch can be disconnected?

 

Mike

Yes, but the ZFE module will set a fault during any diagnostics because it has to see the switch cycle to clear the diag. routine.