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Lot of popping


Matth3w

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This winter I replaced plugs, plug wires, air cleaner, oil and filter, battery and repacked the exhaust. Started it today... 60 and raining but in garage. Had trouble starting then there was allot of exhaust popping, a good pop per second and if you listen real careful you can hear an internal ooompff noise like maybe a backfire or pre ignition. Its definitely running rich but I though that was all computer controlled? Any ideas. 91k miles. 15w50 mobile one used and iridium plugs and K&N air and oil filrer. Thanks.

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Matth3w -

I would check the throttle cables at the adjusters down at the throttle bodies. The end caps should be seated inside the adjuster ferrules, not caught on their lips.

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I just removed the ccp as advised from another thread and it idles much better but still has the backfire which I confirmed by removing air filter while its running, about ever 7 seconds it blows back.

 

 

the cables were seated, my rpm sits at about 1100 and there is no slack in the throttle. I still think its running rich, the old plugs were double platinum and were black.

Edited by Matth3w
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This winter I replaced plugs, plug wires, air cleaner, oil and filter, battery and repacked the exhaust. Started it today... 60 and raining but in garage. Had trouble starting then there was allot of exhaust popping, a good pop per second and if you listen real careful you can hear an internal ooompff noise like maybe a backfire or pre ignition. Its definitely running rich but I though that was all computer controlled? Any ideas. 91k miles. 15w50 mobile one used and iridium plugs and K&N air and oil filrer. Thanks.

 

Morning Matth3w

 

What bike are you working on? I presume an 1100RT?

 

In any case, popping back through the intake (air filter) is usually caused by a cylinder either firing on an open (or partially open) intake valve. Or an intake valve opening with pressure still in the cylinder.

 

A very lean running cylinder could be firing (igniting) late enough to finally fire as the intake valve opens.

 

You didn't mention a valve adjustment,-- if you did a valve adjustment then you might re-address that & verify that you have all the valves set correctly.

 

The idle (fueling) is computer controlled but only after the engine warms up & ONLY with the o2 sensor being used (removing the CCP on the 1100 engine forces the fueling computer to ignore the o2 sensor.

 

It sounds like you are getting BOTH a popping in the exhaust & also back through the intake (air cleaner) -- is this true?

 

If it didn't do the popping before you worked on it then maybe go back over all the work that you did. Maybe start by reinstalling the original spark plugs just to eliminate a defective or cracked new spark plug.

 

If you have access to a compression tester then run a cranking compression test with fuse #5 removed & throttle held wide open. (this might show a leaking valve)

 

Make sure that you didn't pull a spark plug wire partially out of one of the towers on the ignition coil.

 

You need to see a nice snappy bluish spark that will jump a 3/16"+ gap on each side (do you have that?)

 

You might also run a fuel return flow test (ie see how much fuel is flowing back through the fuel return hose-- (should be about a pencil sized fuel return flow with pump running)

 

Lots of possibilities on your problem from a sticking (or mis-adjusted valve) or piece of carbon caught under a valve margin, to an ignition problem (plugs/wires/coil), or a basic fueling problem like old stale fuel, water in the fuel, plugged/sticking fuel injector, low fuel pressure or low fuel delivery etc, or even something like the HES causing problems, or ?????????

 

Go back over what you did to verify that no mistakes, THEN look for new problems.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Yes its a 99 r1100rt, was filled with 91 and some seafoam in November before being parked. Left cylinder compression is 160, right is 165. The backfiring stops if the choke/throttle elevator is turned off once the bike is warm but it still smells pretty rich and is popping at idle with or without the ccp installed. But taking the ccp out did remove the idle stutter and helped it start better. I'm sure I can search here how to check fuel back flow but just in case can you tell me? The fuel pump was replaced in 2016 and both intake manifolds and injectors were cleaned.

 

Has anyone ever does the seafoam clean? Let the bike suck some in through a vac line until it stalls then let it sit for 30 then start it up and let it smoke?

 

I also read an air leak will cause the popping. What torque are the exhaust manifold bolts supposed to be at?

Edited by Matth3w
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Yes its a 99 r1100rt, was filled with 91 and some seafoam in November before being parked. Left cylinder compression is 160, right is 165. The backfiring stops if the choke/throttle elevator is turned off once the bike is warm but it still smells pretty rich and is popping at idle with or without the ccp installed. But taking the ccp out did remove the idle stutter and helped it start better. I'm sure I can search here how to check fuel back flow but just in case can you tell me? The fuel pump was replaced in 2016 and both intake manifolds and injectors were cleaned.

 

Has anyone ever does the seafoam clean? Let the bike suck some in through a vac line until it stalls then let it sit for 30 then start it up and let it smoke?

 

Morning Matth3w

 

As a rule running rich won't make them misfire or pop at idle.

 

Compression sounds OK so we are back to WHY it is firing on an open intake valve (or has the backfiring quit with just post-fire exhaust popping now?)

 

To check the fuel flow just disconnect the fuel return line, then plug off the hose end coming from the front, then point the return hose coming from the rear into a container & run the fuel pump (either jump the fuel pump relay or crank the engine) then look to see if you have a steady stream of fuel flowing out of the return hose.

 

 

 

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Remember Matt that Dirt Rider's analysis of your potential problem and proposed corrective advice is worth ten times more to you than the cost of a subscription to this forum.

And you prolly wouldn't get that kind of focussed advice anywhere else.

What a service !

Thank your lucky stars for being a member here.

 

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Yes, just the exhaust popping once warm. It might be a fuel problem as you say I will check the flow later today. Another thing I noticed if it idles for a couples minutes the breaks between the pops are larger but revving it just starts it all over again

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You mention re-packing the exhaust...

Which exhaust is it. Did you take the whole system off to do it. has the problem only been apparent since you did this?

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its an aftermarket delkevic, its been on the bike for about 40k miles, I drilled out the rivets and repacked it with ceramic mat. No it did not have this problem when I parked it before winter. only the muffler came off right where the hanger is by the left rear footpeg.

Edited by Matth3w
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Plug wires reading 5.5 primary reading .8 and secondary reading 7.4. Return fuel was a nice solid stream. I took it for a ride it was 70 today in Ohio and it had no top end. Almost felt like I was running on one cylinder. When I got back the left cylinder was 40 degrees colder than the right and the plug was a little wet.

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Plug wires reading 5.5 primary reading .8 and secondary reading 7.4. Return fuel was a nice solid stream. I took it for a ride it was 70 today in Ohio and it had no top end. Almost felt like I was running on one cylinder. When I got back the left cylinder was 40 degrees colder than the right and the plug was a little wet.

 

Evening Matth3w

 

It does sound like the L/H cylinder is weaker.

 

Are you POSITIVE the that BOTH SIDE throttle plates are starting open at the exact same time & hitting the wide open stops at the exact same time when you twist the twist grip?????

 

Have you reinstalled the original spark plugs to positively eliminate the new ones?

 

If the above is OK & you have good compression then possibly a L/H fuel injector not spraying correctly.

 

No chance that you have a mouse nest in air box or L/H intake tube is there?

 

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not positive of stops, will check after dinner but ive never messed with them before only the tps adjustment and rechecked that its at 380. retried old plugs same thing, the intake is clear no debris of any kind. are my coil stats good? I read its supposed to be .5 and 7.5 mines not far off but idk what the threshold is.

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not positive of stops, will check after dinner but ive never messed with them before only the tps adjustment and rechecked that its at 380. retried old plugs same thing, the intake is clear no debris of any kind. are my coil stats good? I read its supposed to be .5 and 7.5 mines not far off but idk what the threshold is.

 

Evening Matth3w

 

Coil & wires are just fine, the exact resistance depends on coil winding temperature & meter calibration but you are plenty close.

 

Don't mess with your throttle plate stop screws just verify that both side throttle plate cams start lifting off the base idle stops at the same time & hit the WOT throttle stops at the same time when using the twist grip.

 

 

 

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Cable stops are same both sides. Close same time open same time. The only thing I havnt done is mess with the brass screws. I don't own a manometer

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I made a video of this recent ride ill try to get it posted tonight, its idling pretty good once warm but at 3k-6k any gear it bogging down but smooths out a little at red line. My last compression test was cold i did it again at operating temp. 185 on the left and 170 on the right. Is it bad its that much different?I know carbon build up can increase compression would that also cause my top end problem? Can you give me gap specs on the valve lash please I will check that tonight as well.

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Ok so here is a video of my ride, its just my cell phone in my tshirt pocket but listen to the gurgle? noise when i jump on it is it a misfire or weak fire?

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Cable stops are same both sides. Close same time open same time. The only thing I havnt done is mess with the brass screws. I don't own a manometer

 

Morning Matth3w

 

The BBS (brass screws) only effect idle & just above idle & are JUST air by-pass screws so have little to no effect on engine performance once riding & above idle.

 

Very easy to make a U tube manometer with a long piece of clear small diameter hose & a yardstick. The BMW boxer is 360° twin so the cylinders fire at same piston position but opposite strokes so a simple comparison type U tube manometer is very accurate on the BMW boxer.

 

 

 

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I made a video of this recent ride ill try to get it posted tonight, its idling pretty good once warm but at 3k-6k any gear it bogging down but smooths out a little at red line. My last compression test was cold i did it again at operating temp. 185 on the left and 170 on the right. Is it bad its that much different?I know carbon build up can increase compression would that also cause my top end problem? Can you give me gap specs on the valve lash please I will check that tonight as well.

 

Morning Matth3w

 

Did you run the compression test with the throttle held wide open? (a closed throttle chokes off the inlet air & skews the readings)

 

Did you remove fuse #5 before running compression test? (if fuse is in place then a fuel injector can squirt during the compression test adding to the inlet air & raising compression pressures)

 

Even so that isn't enough side to side difference to effect down the road engine performance.

 

On the valve lash settings_____ Inlet= 0.15mm (0.006") & Exhaust= 0.30mm (0.012"). -- Engine must be cold to the touch before checking or adjusting valves.

 

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Ok so here is a video of my ride, its just my cell phone in my tshirt pocket but listen to the gurgle? noise when i jump on it is it a misfire or weak fire?

 

Morning Matth3w

 

That engine sounds weak & sick. Something isn't right with it!

 

So lets go back over things--

 

You need good spark, (at the correct time) -- we aren't sure of the spark intensity or timing yet?

 

Need enough fuel supply (that seemed to test out OK)-- you definitely checked the RETURN side & not the pressure side correct?

 

Need enough compression (seems OK)

 

Need enough injected fuel (this we don't know) ??????

 

TPS needs to be rechecked for base idle setting on low side using a good high quality voltmeter (then both low & high output tracked for smooth tracking & even gain)

 

Exhaust needs to get freely out of each cylinder? (something we need to verify yet)? IE check for a plugged cat. if it still has a catalytic converter.

 

It needs to get enough air INTO the engine (ie no inlet restrictions) you checked this but not the air filter itself. (so try running without air filter element in the air box) --Air filter can look good but if it was ever soaking wet it can swell the paper & restrict air flow.

 

**You checked the coil & ign wires for resistance but not performance. Coil resistance can test OK but coil could still be arcing internally. Spark plug wires can ohm out OK but still have a cut or arcing problem. (probably not the problem but don't completely rule them out)-- Maybe take an old spark plug then open the electrode gap to a good 3/16" (use a 3/16"dril bit as a gap gauge) then stick in each plug wire & lay on engine block then crank engine. You need to see a snappy bluish colored spark from each side across that 3/16" gap.

 

**If you still have a catalytic converter then you should probably run an exhaust backpressure test as you m-i-g-h-t have a plugged cat.

 

**If you have a timing light then check running spark timing for advancement & max spark advance.

 

**If you don't find something easy then you will probably need to eventually remove the fuel injectors (leave hooked to wires & fuel line) then point into a container & crank engine at 3/4 throttle opening to check for spray pattern & sprayed amount. (spray pattern should look & spray the same amount for each side).

 

**If all the above checks out OK then you will probably have to go over each engine sensor & measure each at different temperatures & check connections.

 

If all the above checks out then could even be a Motronic problem.

 

Can you tell us EXACTLY when the problem started? Did it run OK before any winter work was done?

 

If the problem showed up after winter work then list EVERYTHING that was done during the winter work.

 

You mentioned trans spline work? -- has it run OK since the trans work?

 

These things are difficult enough to diagnose when riding & actually working on them & a LOT more difficult to diagnose over the internet. (especially without ALL the background info)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Spark is about 50/50 blue and orange.

 

Yes checked return line.

 

Everyone has their own way of adjusting the tps, I leave the throttle closed and only adjust the pot not the cables and it's currently at 380, have not looked at range accuracy, what is the high?

 

No cat, been like that since I've owned it. Still has the o2 and I feel plenty of exhaust flow.

 

I've ran it with no filter, new filter even played with a sock to see how much I could suffocate it. It took allot of clogging to affect it so I don't think air is a problem.

 

Don't have a timing light. Is there any other way to check, I guess I could borrow one from advance. What are the steps for that?

 

Injectors manifolds were cleaned with seafoam 2 years ago, I will do a flow test today.

 

I'm also going to drain fuel today and refill. It sort of started last Aug. A friend took it out and brought it back with 88 in it. It ran noticeably rough then so I added a octane fuel additive to it and went through that tank and 2 more fill ups before winter and it cleared up. But it kind of seems like its doing that again. I actually got the bike from my uncle 3 years ago for free. A dealer told him it had a burnt valve on the left side and they wanted some thousands of dollars... After I got hit on my honda cb650 he said I could have the bmw if I could fix it. I pulled the left side and found nothing wrong so I ended up just replacing the gasket and doing a tune up and the bike ran great for me for the last 2 years.

 

I really appreciate this help, I'm sure you have much better things in your day than do this so thanks a lot.

 

Does the 99 r1100rt have a knock sensor? Is there a test for the moronic?

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Morning Matth3w

 

Spark is about 50/50 blue and orange.--That sounds OK some will be a bit orange at 3/16" gap.

 

Yes checked return line.--Good

 

Everyone has their own way of adjusting the tps, I leave the throttle closed and only adjust the pot not the cables and it's currently at 380, have not looked at range accuracy, what is the high?--High would be 5 volts. There is also the 2nd output that is used from about 1/2 throttle up.

 

No cat, been like that since I've owned it. Still has the o2 and I feel plenty of exhaust flow.-- OK

 

I've ran it with no filter, new filter even played with a sock to see how much I could suffocate it. It took allot of clogging to affect it so I don't think air is a problem.--OK eliminated that

 

Don't have a timing light. Is there any other way to check, I guess I could borrow one from advance. What are the steps for that?-- You can make then use a basic timing box but a dynamic (running engine) timing check with a timing light is best. There is a timing hole on the L/H side of engine & marks on the flywheel.

 

Injectors manifolds were cleaned with seafoam 2 years ago, I will do a flow test today.-- This might show us something

 

I'm also going to drain fuel today and refill. It sort of started last Aug. A friend took it out and brought it back with 88 in it. It ran noticeably rough then so I added a octane fuel additive to it and went through that tank and 2 more fill ups before winter and it cleared up. But it kind of seems like its doing that again. I actually got the bike from my uncle 3 years ago for free. A dealer told him it had a burnt valve on the left side and they wanted some thousands of dollars... After I got hit on my honda cb650 he said I could have the bmw if I could fix it. I pulled the left side and found nothing wrong so I ended up just replacing the gasket and doing a tune up and the bike ran great for me for the last 2 years.-- THIS is a good idea & a basic thing that needs to be done just to eliminate it.

 

I really appreciate this help, I'm sure you have much better things in your day than do this so thanks a lot.

 

Does the 99 r1100rt have a knock sensor? Is there a test for the moronic?--NO, no knock sensor or sensors on either the 1100 or 1150 engines.

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made a video of the spark just for reference, i guess it kind of does look more orange than blue...

 

 

made a video of the spark just for reference, i guess it kind of does look more orange than blue...

 

Morning Matth3w

 

Video doesn't work.

 

It doesn't matter as a video probably doesn't tell us a lot anyhow.

 

Spark at a larger electrode gap is pretty voltage dependent so cranking lowers the system voltage. You might try re-running the spark test with no spark plugs in the engine (to eliminate engine drag) & using a battery charger on the battery to raise system voltage during the test.

 

 

 

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Works when I clicked from a different device, maybe you caught it just as it was finishing

 

Morning Matth3w

 

OK, it's working now, looks like a decent spark for a wide electrode gap.

 

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Inside the tank been looked at? Bad fuel filter...split hose...etc...

 

Evening SKYGZR

 

Yes, it has been verified. That is why we had him run the Fuel Return Flow test.

 

If he has fuel return flowing that tells us-- First that it is making enough fuel pressure to open the fuel regulator pressure valve (40+ psi), & second

that it is making enough fuel flow at the required pressure. (it can't do either with a split hose or bad fuel filter)

 

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so final update is it had to be the fuel, I checked the timing it was good, checked the spray pattern and both sides looked the same and replaced the fuel with straight 93 and its actually 40 degrees today and it ran great so my question is can to much or not enough octane make it run that bad? thats why I had the knock sensor question. or does the oilhead not like seafoam? thanks for all the help, I learned allot about the 1100 on this trial and hopefully I too can now help someone in the future.

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so final update is it had to be the fuel, I checked the timing it was good, checked the spray pattern and both sides looked the same and replaced the fuel with straight 93 and its actually 40 degrees today and it ran great so my question is can to much or not enough octane make it run that bad? thats why I had the knock sensor question. or does the oilhead not like seafoam? thanks for all the help, I learned allot about the 1100 on this trial and hopefully I too can now help someone in the future.

 

Evening Matth3w

 

It's not an octane thing as higher octane just means the fuel has more resistance to compression ignition & knocking.

 

Depending on how much Sea Foam you put in that should not have caused the issue. ( a LOT of Sea Foam could have an effect though). Probably better off using Techron than Sea Foam.

 

More than likely the alcohol in the fuel plus taking in moisture caused the largest part of your fuel issue.

 

I always winter store my personal motorcycles with the tanks full of non alcohol fuel (either find a local station that carries non alcohol fuel or buy it at a local boat marina)

 

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The tank was full and I added 1oz per gallon as suggested and its suppose to remove water but being in a heated garage, I heat mine to 40 degrees. F. I can see condensation still building up in what little room is left in the tank, I just didnt have this problem last year though. I read somewhere once that to much octane, sometimes it wont ignite leaving you with un burnt fuel blowing out of your exhaust. but i did read it on the internet...

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Lone_RT_rider
I learned allot about the 1100 on this trial and hopefully I too can now help someone in the future.

 

We used to do a lot of teaching based on Tech days held by people on this site. It's a great way to meet friends and keep ongoing relationships with people in your region. I've helped with some and hosted one of my own. They have about a 75% rate of people that learn so much about their bikes that they commonly never take their bikes to a dealer again, though they continue to buy parts from them.

 

It would be good to see that start up again. I realize we are all older now and it's a lot more work for us, but it's still worth it. A great example would be the cam adjustment for the R1200 wetheads. I have a feeling that it's a lot easier than most people think.

 

Shawn

 

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The tank was full and I added 1oz per gallon as suggested and its suppose to remove water but being in a heated garage, I heat mine to 40 degrees. F. I can see condensation still building up in what little room is left in the tank, I just didnt have this problem last year though. I read somewhere once that to much octane, sometimes it wont ignite leaving you with un burnt fuel blowing out of your exhaust. but i did read it on the internet...

 

Morning

 

 

Unless you are dealing with a cetane issue (diesel fuel) then I just don't see how a (pump fuel) with a high octane rating could be your issue. As a rule when bad fuel is added to the tank it gives you problems on the ride home, unless it is a water issue, then it could start acting up after the bike sits for a while & the water separates out & falls to the bottom of the tank. (remember octane is rating number not a liquid)

 

Does your motorcycle still have an operational evap canister on the rear? Those things not only trap hydrocarbons for re-entry into the combustion cycle but also keep moisture from entering the fuel tank during storage. If your evap can is removed then you might plug the tank vent port back into the fuel tank vent line for winter storage. (On some of my long-term stored motorcycles I not only use non-alcohol gasoline for storage but plug larger automobile evap cans into the tank vents to limit moisture entry).

 

One other thing to do is: cut the lower end of your fuel tank vent hose exiting behind R/H foot peg (or evap vent hose if you still have an evap can) to a 45° angle. This prevents the vent hose from taking in (sucking in) road water as you ride & the tank empties replacing the used fuel in the tank with make-up air. (there is a BMW service bulletin on this)

 

 

 

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You mentioned that you keep your bike in a heated garage and that the temp in the garage is only 40F. Maybe at 40F your garage is at or below the dew point which could cause moisture in the air to condense out. Do you live in an area with high humidity? If so maybe try raising the garage temperature at least above the dew point to cut down on condensation. I keep my garage at 63F just for this reason. Easy for me to say since I live in the PNW with abundant cheap hydro power.

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I live in Ohio so one day its 60 the next its 20 in the winter... lake effect from lake erie. I know there is def condensation because some of my metal equipment that sits on the floor gets condensation on it after a warm day but I thought thats what dry gas was for? or sta-bil, i didnt use either of those but i did use sea foam which is supposed to do the same thing. I do know now though its running great after the fuel change.

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