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Stranded Today


joeyjamb

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Good evening,

 

I was riding near my home in Washington County MD today and while having a blast on my r1150rt it suddenly quit running. I was coming uphill out of a right turn and it just shut down. I had a blinking battery light and it cranked but would not fire. My first instinct was that it was the battery.

 

Before I get too deep into it though, a little history. I have had the bike for a little over a month. I have maybe put six or seven hundred miles on it in that time. I had a bad coil, so I replaced both and it was running beautifully after that. I have also replaced all 4 plugs (this is an '04 dual spark). Other than that is has just been fluids. The bike was purchased from a private seller who did not report any issues (like he would anyway) and was ridden regularly until last November.

 

Back to today. I am going uphill and the engine shuts down. The lights on the dash and fuel gauge are all working. I coast to a stop and try starting. It cranks but does not fire. Like I said, the battery light was blinking but the bike still cranks. As I coast downhill, I try to pop start and it won't go. I get to the bottom and there's luckily a convenient place to pull over.

 

At this point, I am thinking battery. I have 170 miles on the tank of gas currently so there should be enough. Call my wife and she's on her way with some extra gas and battery booster. Once I have the booster, I know the battery is ok as the booster cannot up the charge at all. I try opening the cap as I have heard about vacuum situations in tanks and there is no whoosh of incoming pressure. What I cannot hear is the full pump. I hear the brake servos and the relay for that clicking but I cannot hear the pump even with my ear to the open filler. I seem to remember the pump making some noise but now I am not too sure. I got the bike towed home and it now sits sans tupperware in the garage.

 

Several people stopped to help including 3 other beemer riders and one harley guy that came back a couple hours later to see if I was still ok. I was in a bad area for service so I could only rely on my faulty brain for troubleshooting on the roadside.

 

After I got the bike home, I sprayed some starter fluid in the airbox and she ran as long as I kept spraying it in. So now I think it is the fuel pump. With the tupperware off, I still cannot hear the pump with my ear up against the right side of the tank. In the picture:

OiyXP5dl.jpg

there is a four wire connection behind the two quick disconnects. I think this is the connection running to the fuel pump. I was able to put a test light on the second pin and it came on for a few seconds on turning the ignition. I believe this indicates the pump is getting fuel. My next idea is to pull the tank and the pump but I wanted to see if any of you had suggestions before I do that.

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Charles Elms

I always heard the fuel pump cycle up when I turned the key on. I think you are on the right track. Pull the tank and check it out.

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Check your quick disconnect fuel connectors on right side of bike. Had the same thing happen to me a few years ago and turned out quickD's weren't seated so starved

for fuel

Edited by Skywagon
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Good evening,

 

I was riding near my home in Washington County MD today and while having a blast on my r1150rt it suddenly quit running. I was coming uphill out of a right turn and it just shut down. I had a blinking battery light and it cranked but would not fire. My first instinct was that it was the battery.

 

Before I get too deep into it though, a little history. I have had the bike for a little over a month. I have maybe put six or seven hundred miles on it in that time. I had a bad coil, so I replaced both and it was running beautifully after that. I have also replaced all 4 plugs (this is an '04 dual spark). Other than that is has just been fluids. The bike was purchased from a private seller who did not report any issues (like he would anyway) and was ridden regularly until last November.

 

Back to today. I am going uphill and the engine shuts down. The lights on the dash and fuel gauge are all working. I coast to a stop and try starting. It cranks but does not fire. Like I said, the battery light was blinking but the bike still cranks. As I coast downhill, I try to pop start and it won't go. I get to the bottom and there's luckily a convenient place to pull over.

 

At this point, I am thinking battery. I have 170 miles on the tank of gas currently so there should be enough. Call my wife and she's on her way with some extra gas and battery booster. Once I have the booster, I know the battery is ok as the booster cannot up the charge at all. I try opening the cap as I have heard about vacuum situations in tanks and there is no whoosh of incoming pressure. What I cannot hear is the full pump. I hear the brake servos and the relay for that clicking but I cannot hear the pump even with my ear to the open filler. I seem to remember the pump making some noise but now I am not too sure. I got the bike towed home and it now sits sans tupperware in the garage.

 

Several people stopped to help including 3 other beemer riders and one harley guy that came back a couple hours later to see if I was still ok. I was in a bad area for service so I could only rely on my faulty brain for troubleshooting on the roadside.

 

After I got the bike home, I sprayed some starter fluid in the airbox and she ran as long as I kept spraying it in. So now I think it is the fuel pump. With the tupperware off, I still cannot hear the pump with my ear up against the right side of the tank. In the picture:

 

there is a four wire connection behind the two quick disconnects. I think this is the connection running to the fuel pump. I was able to put a test light on the second pin and it came on for a few seconds on turning the ignition. I believe this indicates the pump is getting fuel. My next idea is to pull the tank and the pump but I wanted to see if any of you had suggestions before I do that.

 

Morning joeyjamb

 

Your problem sounds aa LOT, like you split the high pressure "U" shaped hose inside the fuel tank. That splits then the engine instantly quits. (somewhat common in older BMW 1100/1150 boxer bikes)

 

You can test for that by running a fuel return flow test. If no fuel coming out of the return hose coming from the rear if bike then you don't have enough fuel flow at enough pressure to run the engine.

 

Your fuel pump ONLY runs for about 2 seconds at first key on, then turns off until you crank the engine so you will only hear the pump run for a very short time at key on. (it's difficult to hear the pump running during engien cranking)

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Joeyjamb, you are correct - you should hear the fuel pump cycle for a second or two when you turn the key on.

 

First, do you have readings displayed at the RID, Rider Info Display? With the key ON, you should see the gear indicator and the fuel gauge level. Clock should be on all the time. Bike in Neutral, neutral light ON, side stand up, kill switch in the Run position?

 

If the above is all good, then you should hear that fuel pump run for the first second or two. If you aren't hearing it, check the fusebox. Do you have a diagram for the fuse and relay locations? I believe fuse 6 protects the fuel pump relay and relay 6 controls the fuel pump. Relay 5 controls the horn and is the same type relay as the fuel pump relay. Verify that the fuse is good and if okay, then swap the horn and fuel pump relay. Report back.

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Ok I'll give that a look when I get off work. I'm going to order a new line, seals, and filter with the intention of replacing those lines.

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I did check the fuse and relay. I was able to get the test light to work for a couple seconds first turning it on.

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Ok I'll give that a look when I get off work. I'm going to order a new line, seals, and filter with the intention of replacing those lines.

 

Morning joeyjamb

 

It's kind of pointing to either a bad pump or ruptured in-tank line & those pumps seldom fail (the in-tank lines do fail)

 

You said that your fuel gauge was working so that tells us that the side stand switch circuit is probably OK.

 

You also said you had a couple of seconds of 12v power on terminal (2) at the fuel pump connector so that tells us that your pump circuit is probably working (pump relay & fuse OK). Pump only gets power for a couple of seconds at key-on then no power until engine cranking.

 

 

 

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Sounds like my intermittently bad fuel pump relay.

No cycling of fuel pump when key goes on. Does it start once it cools off?

The horn relay right next to it is identical, try a swap.

$10 for new one at Advance Auto. I carry a spare now.

Dave

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I swapped the relays and it still doesn't start. I did use a test light to see the pump is getting power. I had it hooked up when first turning on and it got power a few seconds like it's supposed to. I will get a replacement add you suggest. Best to have a spare.

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Does the fuel pump run for two seconds when you turn the key on? It's very distinct. You'll hear it if it does.

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My R1100RT suddenly failed last week and I had to have it towed to BMW shop. Still waiting for them to diagnose and advise. Potential problems are the U hose in the tank or the coil, depending on if it will crank in the morning. They already told me the fuel pump ran, which is encouraging news.

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I hope it is nothing major. I haven't looked at the bike tonight. I got caught up at the office and it's a bit late tonight. Domestic duties are holding sway but I ordered new seals for the fuel plate, hoses, fuel filter, and fuel sock. I will replace all once I am in the tank and bench test the pump as well. The more I read, the more I think it is something in the tank. I have power and I will hold off on the pump until I know for sure.

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Joey wrote:

I will replace all once I am in the tank and bench test the pump as well.
I wouldn't bench test the pump, Joey, because it is cooled and lubricated by the gas it's in. You can ruin a pump by running it dry.
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Got you. I guess I can test for continuity. Anyone know if it has a resistance rating?

 

Morning joeyjamb

 

Yes, it would have a designed resistance at a nominal temperature but I sure don't know what it is. (might even need a growler to test the armature)

 

You can run the pump in a pan of mineral spirits or even kerosene but to really test it properly it needs to run against a pumping load (like 45 psi).

 

Look at the in-tank pressure hoses (especially the U shaped one) if you find a split or ruptured hose then you have more than likely found the problem. (fold it back & look closely). You might even find a hose blown off a fitting.

 

 

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I got my parts yesterday but didn't have the time to pull the tank etc last night. Tonight I drained and pulled the tank. I got the pump out no issue. I marked the internal vent hoses to make sure they went back the same way. In all the videos I watched, I never anyone paying particular attention to which was which so I was wondering if the order does matter? Anyway, the U hose is perfectly in tact:

5q6QBKJl.jpg

 

The rest of the connections look good too:

 

l5Whrcil.jpg

 

Tell me this is an '06 filter?!

 

uYiDWHil.jpg

 

Well I tested for continuity on the pump and got a fairly high resistance. I put some power on the pump and didn't hear or feel a thing. I double-checked the power going to the pump and that is running at 12.5 v at startup. I ordered o rings and internal fuel lines and a filter originally but no pump. I just ordered the pump. From what everyone said and what I read I figured for sure it was a hose. I am supposed to be heading to the dragon this time next week, but I may be taking the old bike if I can't get the new pump installed in time. Thanks so far for everyone's help and advice. I will keep everyone updated.

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roger 04 rt

JoeyJ, as DR suggested, you should have run a return flow test before opening the tank. That's almost the only way to know if your tank innards are good.

 

At idle the return flow should be 2 liters per minute. If it won't start you should at least get a strong gush of fuel returning for a couple seconds each time you turn the key on.

 

When you get good return flow you can save opening the tank. When you don't, if you hear the pump you KNOW it's an In the tank problem.

Edited by roger 04 rt
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You are probably right but the bike wasn't starting and the pump makes no noise or vibration when turning on. I really don't remember what it sounded like when it was working and I have not found a video on the interwebs to confirm. unless this is a new stealth model, I'm pretty sure that it is dead.

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...

Tell me this is an '06 filter?!

 

uYiDWHil.jpg

 

...

 

Actually, I think it might be a 2002 filter...Nov 6, 2002. What year is your bike?

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It's an '04 which is a bit scarier. It was built in Jan 2003. That would make it original.

Edited by joeyjamb
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roger 04 rt
You are probably right but the bike wasn't starting and the pump makes no noise or vibration when turning on. I really don't remember what it sounded like when it was working and I have not found a video on the interwebs to confirm. unless this is a new stealth model, I'm pretty sure that it is dead.

 

I missed that comment and thought you were hearing the pump, which can be distinctly heard for about two seconds after switching the key.

 

Without hearing the pump, the first step could have been to put a jumper in place of the fuel pump relay since it is better to run the pump when immersed in fuel. If it still didn't start, then you would measure voltage on the tank side of the fuel tank electrical connector.

 

At this point, with the tank open it's hard to test the pump since you don't want to run it dry.

 

What are you thinking as a next step.

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I did get continuity but with a high resistance through the pump. I measured the voltage coming out of the harness. I checked for continuity between the harness connection and the pump. I took the chance to hook the pump up to power and I didn't hear a thing. The pump is dead. I have a new one on the way from Beemer Boneyard. When it arrives, I will replace the filter and all the internal hoses as well.

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Cut the old filter apart to see what it has trapped. You will probably be amazed at the "mud" that it has in the element pleats!

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So I put the new pump in tonight and she fired right up. Thank you to everyone that answered my questions. It was a tremendous help. I also removed the canister and radio while I was at it. Thanks again!

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Bill_Walker

I hope you replaced that u-hose while you were in there. They can look good to the eye and still leak, and it's likely the original hose (as mentioned, a flow test is the only way to know for sure). If not, put it on the list for the next time you change the fuel filter.

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I swapped out all the connector hoses including the u bend. Great kit from beemerboneyard had all the pieces.

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