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'14 RT Possible Adaptation Value Issue?


jay1622

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My 05 RT calls for either two turns of the throttle before starting after being disconnected from the battery, or an adaptation value setting using a GS-911.

 

I picked up a used '14 RT, which sat unused for 17 months. Judging by some add-ons, the previous owner certainly disconnected the battery once or twice. My issue (the only issue really) is that the bike never starts up on the first press of the starter; no matter how long the starter is engaged for (giving it zero throttle). It always fires up immediately upon the second attempt.

 

Do the wet heads require that same two-twist learning curve? I haven't seen an option in the gs-911 wifi interface that allows for the setting of this specific adaptation value, as my hexhead 05 does.

 

FYI... I've since drained the old gas and refilled the tank, and I'm using 7 oz of BMW fuel cleaner as a cleaner. I've put 200 miles on it since purchasing it, and it is definitely smoothing out, but starting it continues to be a chore.

 

Thoughts?

Edited by jay1622
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My 05 RT calls for either two turns of the throttle before starting after being disconnected from the battery, or an adaptation value setting using a GS-911.

 

I picked up a used '14 RT, which sat unused for 17 months. Judging by some add-ons, the previous owner certainly disconnected the battery once or twice. My issue (the only issue really) is that the bike never starts up on the first press of the starter; no matter how long the starter is engaged for (giving it zero throttle). It always fires up immediately upon the second attempt.

 

Do the wet heads require that same two-twist learning curve? I haven't seen an option in the gs-911 wifi interface that allows for the setting of this specific adaptation value, as my hexhead 05 does.

 

FYI... I've since drained the old gas and refilled the tank, and I'm using 7 oz of BMW fuel cleaner as a cleaner. I've put 200 miles on it since purchasing it, and it is definitely smoothing out, but starting it continues to be a chore.

 

Thoughts?

 

Afternoon jay1622

 

Nothing about TPS re-learn or adaptives in the 2014 rider manual under battery replace. (that is where it would be if needed to be done)

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Hey there Dirtrider! You've helped me clear up a few things in the past (been a number of years). Nice to see you're still at it. Thx!

 

My guess is that 1,000 miles from now it'll go away with regular use/riding. Fingers crossed.

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Hey there Dirtrider! You've helped me clear up a few things in the past (been a number of years). Nice to see you're still at it. Thx!

 

My guess is that 1,000 miles from now it'll go away with regular use/riding. Fingers crossed.

 

Afternoon jay1622

 

It might not go away, there are a number of complaints on the 1200RT (water cooled) with the same no-start-on-first-attempt.

 

Some have found a work-around by using various ways to shut the engine down, (like using the kill switch or side stand to shut engine off)

 

Check the archives here in the wetheads forum as there are others with the same issue.

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My '14 RT has this quirk as well. It didn't need the two stab start until sometime after the first 6K service. I was going to make that known at the 12K service . In any case it only does it when starting from dead cold and never takes more than a second attempt if it does not fire immediately on the first attempt. Otherwise the bike runs fine and fires on first attempts if the motor has any heat in it.

 

Thought I read a post here where one of the folks had this two stab start ritual and the service tech finally found the timing had gone off. If memory serves the issue was fixed by resting the timing which was not a simple computer setting reset but the service tech had to dust off and use his wrenches for the fix. When I have more time later I'll see if I can pull up the post if someone doesn't beat me to it.

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Found it

 

gordiet Offline

Member

Registered: 09/17/07

Posts: 780

Loc: Washington State and Arizona s...

 

I don't think using the kill button is the answer. It's been found the the starting issue is caused by the bike being out of time (mine included). Once corrected it's never been an issue regardless if it's freezing or hot. I have 5 friends that own Wetheads and had the starting problems. All are wetheads RTs and GS models. All we're out of time and once corrected, problem solved. BMW is using a tapered shaft for the timing gear not splined.

GT

 

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=986121#Post986121

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I have my 12K coming up in a week or 2.

 

I bought the tools for the timing check so will know if mine is out.

 

I have to say up to 9000 miles or so I never had this issue at all. I let the computer come up always. I use the kickstand to shut the bike down.

 

In the last month I have had it not start on the first try a few times. The second try never fails.

 

I have a small run coming up so the 12K when I get back we will see if my bike is in or out of time. Valve check and then timing check.

 

I have seen where the timing has been off on others bikes but is that from stock or has it drifted over time and use?

 

On LC bikes the twisting of the throttle does nothing to adjust it. The GS-911 will allow you to reset the twist grip as a service feature. Setting the Throttle Position Sensor is a value in volts and not very intuitive at all.

 

My tuner and I went rounds with DynoJet over this and finally we got the POD 300 to show proper TPS from 0-100% but it was a trial and error sort of thing. Entering minimum and maximum volts was just opening and closing the throttle and watching the voltage and entering in min and max so the POD 300 shows the TPS correctly.

 

I have no idea what makes these bikes show this symptom and why it either shows up out of the blue and goes away out of the blue but I wish we could get a handle on it.

 

I will let all know what my timing was when I get too it in a few weeks.

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FWIW...

 

My '14 has never had a starting issue... (I have taken it to the dealer for service two times... for the 600 miles check and the 6000k service. No issues reported/repaired.... but I digress.)

 

I never shut down with any fancy technique... I just turn the key off. At the next start-up I turn the key on and let the system do its thing. This take s a second or two longer than key-on and hitting the starter. The system apparently does some routine.. the needles move and then settle down...

 

I then hit the starter... every time so far... she fires right up- just like I want it to.

 

This is not a brag... this his just a reference point for others....

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Nearly 22000 miles on my '14 & started first time every time. Let the electronics do their thing then press the button. My '17 with just about 8000 miles is exactly the same. Seems very strange what some of you are getting :(

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mine doesn't have the issue either. It was dealer serviced at 600, 6000, and 12000...currently around 15000. Mostly shut down using the kill switch on the bars and occasionally with the key...

Edited by Skywagon
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My 14RT has required the 2nd start from day 0ne. It has always been turned off by key and on start I have always let it run through the full routine before hitting the start button.

It's always the same....Let it run through the routine..hit the start button....2~3 engine turns and release the starter button again. Hit the starter button a 2nd time and bike will fire up instantly.

 

Hold the starter button in on the 1st attempt and it will not start...you can hold it in until you flatten the battery...it's not going to happen LOL.

Just a quirk and not an issue for me.

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I have experienced this issue several times. I have 31000 miles now. Most of the time the bike starts right away, but there have been times when it would only start on the second try. I don't consider it much of an issue, at least it always starts by the second try :) The bike is scheduled for a computer upgrade on Friday. I'll ask the service mgr. if there is an issue with starting. This will be the first time at dealer service dept since the bike was purchased almost 3 years ago.

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My 14RT has required the 2nd start from day 0ne. It has always been turned off by key and on start I have always let it run through the full routine before hitting the start button.

It's always the same....Let it run through the routine..hit the start button....2~3 engine turns and release the starter button again. Hit the starter button a 2nd time and bike will fire up instantly.

 

Hold the starter button in on the 1st attempt and it will not start...you can hold it in until you flatten the battery...it's not going to happen LOL.

Just a quirk and not an issue for me.

I don't understand why you wouldn't look at the timing when it's documented that these bikes can get out time. Mine was, ALL my friends that are riding a wet head have found their engines out of time. Correcting the the timing fixed the starting issue!

GT

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Don't know if mine is in time or not. It rarely has to have the starter button pushed twice. I did notice this last trip that mileage seemed to be down.

If the timing was off far enough to make starting a problem, I wonder why it doesn't seem to reduce power noticeably?

My other concern is, if it gets out of time this easily what is keeping it from slipping again and again and again? Looks like a press fit would get looser if moved a few times.

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My 14RT has required the 2nd start from day 0ne. It has always been turned off by key and on start I have always let it run through the full routine before hitting the start button.

It's always the same....Let it run through the routine..hit the start button....2~3 engine turns and release the starter button again. Hit the starter button a 2nd time and bike will fire up instantly.

 

Hold the starter button in on the 1st attempt and it will not start...you can hold it in until you flatten the battery...it's not going to happen LOL.

Just a quirk and not an issue for me.

I don't understand why you wouldn't look at the timing when it's documented that these bikes can get out time. Mine was, ALL my friends that are riding a wet head have found their engines out of time. Correcting the the timing fixed the starting issue!

GT

 

 

Can you provide detail of what you say needs to be retimed. Is it one of the cam chain sprockets, or the cam trigger on the left side exhaust cam, the cam gears, or...?

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Ok,here is what was in the written report.

Cam timing checked and adjusted

A) #1, right side, out of adjustment very little, adjusted

B) #2 out of adjustment a bit more, adjusted

Cam shaft exhaust #2 cyl, relucton ,

reset to factory spec

GT

Edited by gordiet
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Ok,here is what was in the written report.

Cam timing checked and adjusted

A) #1, right side, out of adjustment very little, adjusted

B) #2 out of adjustment a bit more, adjusted

Cam shaft exhaust #2 cyl, relucton ,

reset to factory spec

GT

 

Thanks for the fast comeback. So it looks like like the gears on the each of the cam shafts that are secured with a bolt & friction washer were what was adjusted.

 

The DYIer would likely need the 11 0 822 TDC locating pin tool and the 11 0 827 cam locking jig tool.

 

On a completely tangential note this also means that one could make different cam locking jigs to adjust the intake and exhaust timing overlap to move the power band around. Not sure why anyone would on a touring machine....Old gearhead thoughts die hard I guess.

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It is 300 bucks for the 4 tools needed to do a timing adjustment. You need the tool to put correct tension on the cam chain and a collar that goes on that tool.

 

They cost me 292 to my door from A&S Cycles. You also need a 16 MM crows foot for the cam timing bolt.

 

If you would see the cam alignment tool it is really a big and hardy piece of aluminum. I do not think you would be able to replicate it with various degrees. It is either in or out of time, no two ways about it. Been reported that once you take the tension off you can not get the cam alignment tool back on. It is only after the cam chain tension gets pumped back up with the motor running that it would fit on. Of course we cant see or try it as the motor is closed up at that point.

 

I have a small trip coming up and then I will do my 12K including checking cam timing.

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  • 4 weeks later...

This problem has been going around for as long as I have had the bike, (2014 Wethead - one of the first I guess). Done 38,000 miles now and the problem is completely random. The bike will go for months without it happening then one morning... Having a GS911 I tried to catch the problem in the act so to speak, as soon as I connected the GS911 the problem went away. Tried all the various tricks Kill Switch throttle etc. It always starts the second time so I have stopped worrying...

I am due a new battery this winter - maybe that will make a difference - but I doubt it.

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I took my bike in for a computer update 2 weeks ago. This was a BMW update and cost me $0. I asked what was updated and the tech said that it was mostly to take care of starting issues. The bike starts immediately now so maybe it helped?? You guys might check with your service department. They ran my VIN and said I was due for this update.

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