Overheating issue

[Luky]

Have not been on this board in years... Also have not been riding my bike much either (two back surgeries in the last 6 years) but I see many familiar names...

 

Anyway, my car was in a minor accident a couple of weeks ago and now it looks like insurance may total it as the shop is saying the "frame" is tweaked. So I took my 2000 R1100RT (~78k miles) out yesterday and was "car shopping" idling through various dealer lots in the auto park to see if anything caught my eye. My oil temp went way up, like 9 bars, almost to the red. It was not hot here, maybe 70F and I have only seen it go way up like that when going across the desert in the summer. I have also noticed when I have ridden it the last few times that the "normal" temp is showing like 6 -7 bars while riding. It was always right at 4 bars or maybe would get up to 5 bars if in heavy traffic back when I rode often (2001-2003 account for about 60k miles). I parked it for 15 minutes and it dropped 2 bars so I rode it home, but it never went below 7 bars even 10 minutes down the freeway at 75mph.

 

The last 15 years I have not ridden much, maybe 500-800 mi per year but still I would run it in the garage up to operating temp (3-4 bars) every few months. My last oil change was in 2014, about 1500 miles ago (always mobil 1 15W50 since 18k miles) and I am wondering if I may have created sludge deposits in my engine or in the oil thermostat? I have a new oil filter and 4L of Motul 20W50 synthetic on the way and was considering running some seafoam or other motor flush through the crank case for 20 minutes before doing a drain, fill with some mobil 1 synthetic for a 10 min ride, then drain again and change the filter and refill with the Motul. My concern is if there are other risks in trying to "flush" the motor like this? My other thought was to just buy another oil thermostat off ebay and install that (which looks to be under the PITA gas tank).

 

I have new plugs, battery, air filter, tires, on the way too and plan on a full fluid change including trans, final drive and brake fluid when I get back into town on the 26th (going overseas for work Wed). I am also considering new plug wires/coil and see several threads on the HES which I am considering doing for preventive maintenance now that I have read about it. I am going to need to be using my bike for work commuting until I get a new car so I may as well do what needs to be done so I can keep riding it for another 10 years...

 

 

[dirtrider]

Have not been on this board in years... Also have not been riding my bike much either (two back surgeries in the last 6 years) but I see many familiar names...

 

Anyway, my car was in a minor accident a couple of weeks ago and now it looks like insurance may total it as the shop is saying the "frame" is tweaked. So I took my 2000 R1100RT (~78k miles) out yesterday and was "car shopping" idling through various dealer lots in the auto park to see if anything caught my eye. My oil temp went way up, like 9 bars, almost to the red. It was not hot here, maybe 70F and I have only seen it go way up like that when going across the desert in the summer. I have also noticed when I have ridden it the last few times that the "normal" temp is showing like 6 -7 bars while riding. It was always right at 4 bars or maybe would get up to 5 bars if in heavy traffic back when I rode often (2001-2003 account for about 60k miles). I parked it for 15 minutes and it dropped 2 bars so I rode it home, but it never went below 7 bars even 10 minutes down the freeway at 75mph.

 

The last 15 years I have not ridden much, maybe 500-800 mi per year but still I would run it in the garage up to operating temp (3-4 bars) every few months. My last oil change was in 2014, about 1500 miles ago (always mobil 1 15W50 since 18k miles) and I am wondering if I may have created sludge deposits in my engine or in the oil thermostat? I have a new oil filter and 4L of Motul 20W50 synthetic on the way and was considering running some seafoam or other motor flush through the crank case for 20 minutes before doing a drain, fill with some mobil 1 synthetic for a 10 min ride, then drain again and change the filter and refill with the Motul. My concern is if there are other risks in trying to "flush" the motor like this? My other thought was to just buy another oil thermostat off ebay and install that (which looks to be under the PITA gas tank).

 

I have new plugs, battery, air filter, tires, on the way too and plan on a full fluid change including trans, final drive and brake fluid when I get back into town on the 26th (going overseas for work Wed). I am also considering new plug wires/coil and see several threads on the HES which I am considering doing for preventive maintenance now that I have read about it. I am going to need to be using my bike for work commuting until I get a new car so I may as well do what needs to be done so I can keep riding it for another 10 years...

 

 

Morning Lucky

 

In most cases the engine isn't really overheating but in your case with it sitting a long time a

person never knows.

 

I would strongly suggest that you don't use a motor flush as those usually do way more harm to the

engine than good. If you used a good quality engine oil then there shouldn't be any sludge.

 

Your problem might be in the RID reading incorrectly, or possibly some old bugs or dirt plugging

the oil cooler, or maybe the oil temp sensor not reading correctly, or a very slight possibility

that the oil thermostat is not working correctly.

 

Are the oil cooler & cooler hoses getting hot when the engine appears to be overheating? If the

oil cooler is hot then the oil thermostat is most likely working. If the oil cooler & hoses are

cold or cool then the oil thermostat is probably not allowing hot oil flow to the cooler.

 

What does the RID temp gauge read on a cold bike?

 

Any signs of mouse damage to the engine wire harness?

 

Any signs of a mouse nest behind the oil cooler?

Edited May 15, 2017 by dirtrider

[Luky]

Thanks for the feedback. RID shows no bars at start up. Was 5 bars riding home tonight on the freeway about 75-80mph for 25 min and 65F. Did not think of feeling the oil lines/cooler. I will put my IR temp gun in my tank bag and check the oil cooler tomorrow after I get to work. Oil cooler vanes are pretty clean.

 

Have not removed the Tupperware in years. Got the tune up parts in today, put the new battery on the charger and tires should arrive tomorrow. I will do the service II on the 27th when I get back from China and will check the wiring then.

 

Was there any special procedure for brake fluid change/ABS on a 2000 RT? I always just used a vacuum pump and pulled it out at the calipers till it was clean...

[Jake]

[Lowndes]

"Was there any special procedure for brake fluid change/ABS on a 2000 RT? I always just used a vacuum pump and pulled it out at the calipers till it was clean..."

 

Lucky,

 

No special procedure, but you may need to bleed the nipples on the top of the ABS under the tank. PITA. No need to remove the tank, just prop up the back end to access the nipples.

 

Make sure ALL the pistons are pulled back into the calipers with your vac pump. You can see this with a small flashlight into the calipers, no removals required. If you have a piston(s) that doesn't pull back in, that means one of two things: crud in the Cyl or crud in the drilled galleries in the caliper.

 

In either case, you will need to disassemble the caliper, clean it, and rebuild it. I know, BMW says you can't do that (they want you to buy new calipers at $450 ea). Believe me, they are stupid simple; two halves, four bolts, and an O-ring. See pics below.

 

The pistons/cyls in each side of each caliper are on a "DEAD END" in the hydraulic system. When you bleed the brakes, NO fluid circulates thru the pistons/cyls. That's another reason why you need "suck" them back in with the vac, to get as much of the old fluid-water out as possible.

 

Leave the rubber "piston rings" or glands in place. No need to remove them. Each piston has two different rings (that are directional, too), and each side of each caliper has two different diameter pistons. Pop the pistons out with an air nozzle, blow the passages clear, wipe everything with a WATER-WET shop rag, dry THOROUGHLY, push the pistons back in and bolt it back together.

 

If you have ANY crud anywhere, you need new brake lines. DOT4 eats OEM brake lines, too. Spiegler makes very good PTFE/braided-SS brake line kits for most bikes. Buy from Amazon and save yourself $20.

 

 

More pics of caliper disassembly here: R1100S caliper disassembly and cleaning (brakes are the same for S and RT - I have one each)

 

Outermost seal (only) is grooved:

 

This little bit of crud locked up my front wheel:

 

Cleaned up caliper half:

 

 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2017 by Lowndes

[Luky]

Thanks Lowndes. Good pics. Don't think I am going to tear into the calipers as I am not having any issues with them. Maybe in the future. Bike has been garage kept all its life in the temperate san diego climate and I am far enough from the coast that salt air is not an issue. Probably hasn't seen rain in 10 years or snow in 15 years. I will take your advise and see about pushing the Pistons all the way back in when bleeding them. Also will probably skip messing with ABS unit then. If it ain't broke, don't fix it...

 

Replaced the brake lines with platic coated SS ptfe galfer custom lines many years ago after a front got a pin hole leak coming back from a norcal run. (Don't think there were off the shelf SS lines for an RT yet back then.)

 

Checked the temps with IR. Oil cooler is ~180F on the drivers side and 170F on passenger side immediately after stopping (6 bars on RID). Cylinders were about 180F. I will leave the temp gun in the tank bag for awhile in case it gets really hot again.

 

Hey Jake, how's it going?

[Lowndes]

Lucky,

 

If you replaced the OEM lines with Galfer's, you are good. It's the OEM lines being corroded by the DOT4 that causes the problem. Two results of failure: they start leaking like yours did, or, the rotten crud clogs the galleries forming a check valve and locking the brake like mine did.

 

Lowndes

[Luky]

Doing the work on my bike today and I found one of my fuel tank line Quick disconnects is leaking a drip at a time when it is running (which explains the fuel smell when riding). Anyone know what size fuel line this is? Is it 1/4" or 5/16"? The QD jus has letters CPC or CDC on them. The fuel line says V7.3 x 13.5 and 13.31-1 342 090.

[dirtrider]

Doing the work on my bike today and I found one of my fuel tank line Quick disconnects is leaking a drip at a time when it is running (which explains the fuel smell when riding). Anyone know what size fuel line this is? Is it 1/4" or 5/16"? The QD jus has letters CPC or CDC on them. The fuel line says V7.3 x 13.5 and 13.31-1 342 090.

 

Morning Luky

 

The basic fuel hose is 8mm (id) x 13mm (od), FI rated & non submersible.

 

If one of your quick disconnects is leaking, & is NOT CRACKED, then you can

probably just replace the "O" rings inside the quick disconnects (Personally

I would do both quick disconnects). Those "O" rings are very easy to nick if

the quick disconnect is taken apart or pushed back together without holding

the trigger down as they come completely apart or go completely back together.

[Luky]

Thanks DR. I pulled it apart and does not appear to be cracked. Wiped off the o-ring and inside surface, remated it and it does not appear to be leaking now. However after some research I found Beemer boneyard sells metal qd with Viton o-rings so I ordered a set. Also ordered a new HES, Alternator belt, new plug wires, and cylinder head gaskets so I can pop the covers and check the valves clearances. Been so long I am afraid to open them without new ones on hand... last time I opened it they did not need any adjustments (60k) so I have left them alone. When I changed the battery I noted a lot of the black wire covers are disintegrating (wire insulation still appears to be ok). Changed all the fluids and the only thing that concerns me is the oil that came out of the final drive was black and there was a fair amount of metallic residue on the magnet drain plug. Is this a sign of impending failure or typical? 78k miles and I have alway ridden it pretty hard. Figured I would put a few hundred miles on it and drain it again since it only used 250ml of oil (used new 75-90w GL5 from bmw shop). I have seen the bearings go out on these on other bikes. How hard is it to rebuild a final drive? I'd rather proactively fix it than be stranded somewhere. Already had the drive shaft and clutch replaced years ago...

 

The only other drama was after getting new tires put on yesterday morning (dunlop roadsmart II) and riding 6 miles home, I found a 2" sheet metal screw through the middle of the tread on the rear tire. I pulled the wheel, made it back to the shop just before they closed and they plugged it from the inside for me. Hopefully it will last. Actually allowed him to rebalance it without any weights, FWIW.

[dirtrider]

Thanks DR. I pulled it apart and does not appear to be cracked. Wiped off the o-ring and inside surface, remated it and it does not appear to be leaking now. However after some research I found Beemer boneyard sells metal qd with Viton o-rings so I ordered a set. Also ordered a new HES, Alternator belt, new plug wires, and cylinder head gaskets so I can pop the covers and check the valves clearances. Been so long I am afraid to open them without new ones on hand... last time I opened it they did not need any adjustments (60k) so I have left them alone. When I changed the battery I noted a lot of the black wire covers are disintegrating (wire insulation still appears to be ok). Changed all the fluids and the only thing that concerns me is the oil that came out of the final drive was black and there was a fair amount of metallic residue on the magnet drain plug. Is this a sign of impending failure or typical? 78k miles and I have alway ridden it pretty hard. Figured I would put a few hundred miles on it and drain it again since it only used 250ml of oil (used new 75-90w GL5 from bmw shop). I have seen the bearings go out on these on other bikes. How hard is it to rebuild a final drive? I'd rather proactively fix it than be stranded somewhere. Already had the drive shaft and clutch replaced years ago...

 

The only other drama was after getting new tires put on yesterday morning (dunlop roadsmart II) and riding 6 miles home, I found a 2" sheet metal screw through the middle of the tread on the rear tire. I pulled the wheel, made it back to the shop just before they closed and they plugged it from the inside for me. Hopefully it will last. Actually allowed him to rebalance it without any weights, FWIW.

 

Morning Luky

 

On the rocker cover gaskets-- the thing most likely to leak on those once they are removed is the rubber hat shaped rubber gaskets around the spark plug wells (so be sure to also order those)

 

On that metallic residue on the final drive drain plug-- That is pretty normal & as long as it is NOT SHARP FEELING when run between your finger & thumb then not a problem (anything sharp or real shinny is cause for concern though). The black gear oil isn't problem either as most gear lube contains a lot molybdenum & sulfur anti-wear ingredients.

 

As to difficulty in rebuilding the final drive?-- That depends on-- If just a new crown bearing then not too difficult, if a full all-bearing rebuild complete with setting backlash, pinion depth measurements, gear mesh, & bearing preload then it can be somewhat of a time consuming & difficult job requiring special tools.

[Luky]

Hey DR, I got the new fuel line metal QD installed (a lttle drama as one of the hard plastic lines cracked at the end with the metal insert), new spark plug wires, new alternator belt (needed it) and HES installed today. I did static timing using the OT mark on the fly wheel with a multi meter on bike ground and the HES orange wire. Put the plugs back in and it started up ok. I was wondering if there was a diy for setting the timing? I saw some comments you made on the topic in a 2010 thread. I do have an inductive timing light around here with the timing advance dial on the back. I will be checking the valves and sync TB's Tomorrow when it is cold then want to fine tune the timing before buttoning it all back up.

 

I am also looking for the part number for the flywheel TDC window plug. Mine was very brittle so I drilled a hole in it and used a pick to pull it out as I did not want to inadvertently push it into the bell housing. Definitely need a new one... Could not find it on the realOEM.Com parts fische.

 

Thanks,

 

Luky

[dirtrider]

Hey DR, I got the new fuel line metal QD installed (a lttle drama as one of the hard plastic lines cracked at the end with the metal insert), new spark plug wires, new alternator belt (needed it) and HES installed today. I did static timing using the OT mark on the fly wheel with a multi meter on bike ground and the HES orange wire. Put the plugs back in and it started up ok. I was wondering if there was a diy for setting the timing? I saw some comments you made on the topic in a 2010 thread. I do have an inductive timing light around here with the timing advance dial on the back. I will be checking the valves and sync TB's Tomorrow when it is cold then want to fine tune the timing before buttoning it all back up.

 

I am also looking for the part number for the flywheel TDC window plug. Mine was very brittle so I drilled a hole in it and used a pick to pull it out as I did not want to inadvertently push it into the bell housing. Definitely need a new one... Could not find it on the realOEM.Com parts fische.

 

 

Morning Luky

 

The timing window plug is number is__ 11111341418 timing plug.

 

On the ignition timing. There are a couple of ways but it varies a little by engine & bike so lets start with your exact engine & bike.

 

You show a 2000 1100RT, is that correct?

 

 

[Luky]

Yep, 2000 R1100RT. I am trying to do this today after I do the valves.

 

Thanks for the timing plug number. Already ordered one from ebay for $8.27 delivered which seems high, but better than the $2 each for the $.30 crush washers the local BMW shop charged me...