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Indy Dave

How to save edge of road positioning without going off

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Indy Dave

For whatever reason, you find yourself travelling on the white line or edge of the road. We've all been there. Probably will again. What's your strategy when this happens?

 

How do you move the bike to the left without veering right? I'm interested in what you do or have done; and if you practice for this situation - like on a road with a shoulder.

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greiffster

Easier said then done, but you've got to focus off the line back to the center. The bike goes where you are looking.

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Jake

You have to veer right before you can go left!

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greiffster

Ah, I see what he's saying. You have to counter-steer it right to lean the bike left. Don't know.

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Kinsley

If you're right on the edge, any attempt to move to the left will put the front tire to the Right unless the bike already has a Leftward movement, like going around a Left hand corner.

The countersteer forces the front to the Right to get the COG to start going Left.

I would not attempt practicing on the edge.

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Chris K

You could try putting weight on the footpeg away from the edge of the road.

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tallman

Yes to Jake

Yes to Ken.

Yes to Chris.

I go faster, what the hell.

 

Of course I wasn't going that fast in the first place.

:/

 

But unless you come upon road gone, giant pothole on the fogline, the road is still going to be there.

Like Ken says, practice it in the middle of the lane.

 

I would put more weight on outside peg, go faster and counter steer, allowing movement.

Not sure I can explain as well as those guys, they're better riders in the technical stuff unless I was back on my RSL.

Then I could keep up with the echo of their tail lights.

:lurk:

 

I also would practice with a hand off the bars.

Shovelstroke Ed wrote something on that many years ago, and I had just happened to be doing that on my own for some reason.

Pre GT so I think circa -03-04(?) if you wanted to search.

 

Maybe Russell or David B could paint a better image, Baker is excellent in that respect.

This is when I miss Master Yoda's writing.

:lurk:

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Kinsley

From a straight line the front wheel will have to track right for the COG to transfer to the left so the bike will turn left.

How you counttersteer, handlebars, knees, feet, etc will not change the fact that the front tire has to make a move to the opposite direction of your intended path. Handlebars are just a more accurate way to countersteer because of the direct input.

If you already have the COG in your favor then the front tire will not go opposite, but is still outside the arc it would have made had you continues the original line.

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Jake

Oh, I had one of those moments Dave is describing. I was in front of Baker (he let me of course) going through the Gap a bit, ahem, quickly. I found myself riding on top of the paint at the road's right edge with an upcoming left. All I could do was to stare at that drop-off that was quickly approaching. And look down. And pucker up.

 

I think I scooched my chin to the left since nothing else would move. Perhaps the road camber bailed me out. I somehow lived without narfing up the RT.

 

David noticed the error of my ways and we talked about it once we got back to the gas station. "Say Chief, you sure got a good look at the woods back there didn't ya?"

 

I let my body get into a cross-controlled position coming out of the previous turn and drifted into the paint with little of my spendable dollar left to use. So, I decided not to do that any more.

 

So, that's my best advice based on my personal experience. Just don't do that!

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Chris K

 

So, that's my best advice based on my personal experience. Just don't do that!

 

Great advice!

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tallman

Ken,

So, speed up, only change, what happens?

Speed up and (?) what happens?

Maintain constant speed and (?) what happens?

By (?) I mean input/changes

 

Let the fun begin...

:lurk:

Edited by tallman

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Kinsley

Leaning the bike over effectively changes the gearing because of the different diameter of the tire. You would need to increase throttle to maintain speed and line. A larger increase in throttle than what is needed to maintain speed would make you run wide unless a steering input is made.

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tallman

Ok, so hypothetically, increasing throttle, which would possibly lead to running wide, coupled with the correct steering input, would move you off the line?

 

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Kinsley

You need to increase throttle to maintain the same speed and line. Too much throttle will increase speed and you'll run wide unless you also have a steering input.

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dirtrider
For whatever reason, you find yourself travelling on the white line or edge of the road. We've all been there. Probably will again. What's your strategy when this happens?

 

How do you move the bike to the left without veering right? I'm interested in what you do or have done; and if you practice for this situation - like on a road with a shoulder.

 

Evening Dave

 

I am a fairly fast late apex rider so flirt with that darn fog line a LOT. If I hit my late turn-in right then no issue unless the road surface is really rough out near the edge & the front wheel chatters out farther than intended.

 

Once in a while I will ride the front brake in just a bit too far or enter too fast & the front wheel will wash out just enough to slide onto that painted fog line.

 

My usual reaction is to just go to neutral throttle (no decel & no accel) just neutral throttle as that will allow the bike to slow down as it turns & bring the line back to the inside slightly without having to add more lean or asking the front tire for more grip.

 

If the neutral throttle doesn't show me it is enough (or quick enough reacting) then I will just lightly drag the rear brake as that will also increase the turn-in without adding much front tire traction loss.

 

The key things here are to PRACTICE tightening your line without adding more bike lean & REALLY practicing getting your darn head & eyes up off of that fog line & looking through the turn. (you are already at that white line so no need to look at it any longer as looking at it won't help your situation but only hurt it)

 

I practice tightening my line without increasing the lean angle (or not increasing it much) almost every time I ride. I practice in the center of the lane as that is safe & easy (also helps muscle memory & quick reaction) but also practice using the center line as the (simulated fog line). If you manage to slide over the center line you just end up back firmly in your own lane (just be darn sure to practice in a remote area where you can see ALL the way through the turn to avoid any oncoming traffic)

 

One thing to keep in mind is: if/when you end up on that painted line, either through a bad line in or entering too fast, you probably still have a lot more bike lean & front tire traction left than you think that you do. You are WAY/WAY/WAY better off just leaning in more & staying with it than trying to run wide or jump on the brakes. That is a very difficult thing to practice but almost always a rider has more lean & more traction remaining than they would ever imagine.

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Kinsley

Good advice Dirtrider :clap:

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tallman

"One thing to keep in mind is: if/when you end up on that painted line, either through a bad line in or entering too fast, you probably still have a lot more bike lean & front tire traction left than you think that you do. You are WAY/WAY/WAY better off just leaning in more & staying with it than trying to run wide or jump on the brakes. That is a very difficult thing to practice but almost always a rider has more lean & more traction remaining than they would ever imagine."

 

This, in various forms, has been presented by very good riders in the past.

More than anything else, I always trust this advice.

So far, so good.

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Indy Dave

Thank you one and all! This is a issue that we've all been aware of since we were kids on bikes. It doesn't happen often, so it maybe doesn't get the attention it deserves when considering solutions to possible problems.

 

My best recollection (things happen quickly) is of a very slight and quick counter-steer with body upright that moved the bike enough to the left to allow me a bit more space to again counter-steer and lean to re-position the bike. I can't be sure what I did, but I was relieved to have avoided exploring the territory to my right.

 

Not being exactly sure what I did (other than being int he wrong place) - I wanted to bring this up and gather the collective wisdom of the board.

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Endobobdds
Thank you one and all! This is a issue that we've all been aware of since we were kids on bikes. It doesn't happen often, so it maybe doesn't get the attention it deserves when considering solutions to possible problems.

......Not being exactly sure what I did (other than being int he wrong place) - I wanted to bring this up and gather the collective wisdom of the board.

 

Dave -thanks for starting this thread. I would assume almost all motorcycle street riders have found themselves facing this situation. Finding myself riding along the outside edge on a painted white line have been my biggest "pucker up moments" on a motorcycle. Never quite sure on how I avoided going down.

 

I agree with Dirtrider's comments: "The key things here are to PRACTICE tightening your line without adding more bike lean & REALLY practicing getting your darn head & eyes up off of that fog line & looking through the turn."

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Green RT
… You are WAY/WAY/WAY better off just leaning in more & staying with it than trying to run wide or jump on the brakes. That is a very difficult thing to practice but almost always a rider has more lean & more traction remaining than they would ever imagine.

 

Very good advice. The instinct to get on the brakes when you find yourself coming into a turn too hot is natural but can be fatal. I still have to work to force myself to just lean into the turn when I suddenly realize I am faster than comfortable.

Edited by Green RT

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