Can anyone speak to what the practical differences between Dynamic ESA...

[NoelCP]

...and the Standard Options package which does not include Dynamic ESA. I understand this means the 'semi-active' ESA won't be, but what will be in its place? My F800GT has non-dynamic ESA and truly the differences aren't very consequential.

 

Can anyone speak from experience in riding with and without ESA a wet head RT? I'm imagining it's possible to find Standard package bikes outside of the US--almost all arriving in the US were Premium Package equipped as far as I know. I really haven't a clue but found a used wet head RT maybe for a good price that only has the Standard options package which includes the following, TPM, heated seats, no GPS nor audio, nor Dynamic ESA etc:

 

Integral ABS (disengageable)

Heated Grips

ASC (Automatic Stability Control)

NEW 2 Ride Modes (Rain, Road)

NEW Steering Damper

Stepless Adjustable Power Windshield

Height Adjustable Rider Seat

Two- Section Seat

NEW On Board Computer Pro

Multi Controller

NEW LED White Turn Signals

LED Taillight

Side Cases in Body Color

Lockable Storage Compartment

Adjustable Shift Lever

 

Thanks in advance for your insights.

[hopz]

Hi Noel...

 

Welcome aboard....

 

 

[Milo172]

Noel, just some thoughts based on my riding experience with my 14 RT.

First, it would be nice to know the great price you are being offered in order to weigh the trade off of functionality.

For me, not having the integrated GPS would be a deal killer. The GPS is more than a direction giver, it also provides a smart phone link to provide traffic and weather updates (assuming you have a smart phone and good coverage). Also, it is controlled quite nicely from the wonder wheel and couples with the bikes clock as you go through time zones, keeping the displayed time correct.

Also, to my knowledge, you can not disable the abs but you can disable the stability control. As far as the ESA is concerned, I use it frequently on my RT while traveling long distances, depending on road surfaces. Also another feature I have come to love is the hill brake lock.

[moshe_levy]

I've ridden both, and the answer really depends on the rider. Most people I know leave ESA in one setting, and forget it. Some like to play with the settings on the fly, and yes, you will notice a difference. In my case, the differences are so great that, again, I set it and forget it at the happy medium I like. Some would advocate buying the bike with the most basic suspension and using money saved to upgrade to decent aftermarket shocks. To each his own. My bike came with ESA and I have no complaints.

 

-MKL

[NoelCP]

I've ridden both, and the answer really depends on the rider. Most people I know leave ESA in one setting, and forget it. Some like to play with the settings on the fly, and yes, you will notice a difference. In my case, the differences are so great that, again, I set it and forget it at the happy medium I like. Some would advocate buying the bike with the most basic suspension and using money saved to upgrade to decent aftermarket shocks. To each his own. My bike came with ESA and I have no complaints.

 

-MKL

 

Thanks--you've ridden both, maybe a rare person! Pardon my complete naiveté but what exactly is 'so great' with Dynamic ESA left in a happy medium position over non-ESA? And what is lacking with the OEM non-ESA shock that people would want to replace it? I'm looking for a bike for long distance touring primarily so maybe this discernment is completely lost on me. I'm on an unmodified F800GT now and it works dandy for canyon carving at a decent clip.

 

I don't know what the final negotiated price will be, but I do know if I pick up this bike which probably will happen over the phone tomorrow if I can get the right price it will have to be un test ridden as the bike is a far piece away from where I live. It has about 1.5y of warranty left on it which is my main assurance I can resolve any issues with it.

 

This RTLC does not have the GPS prep and I assume can't be made to? If so, I will need to add a Zumo and would be looking to do it on a steering head mount.

 

Please take a look at the height of this ball mount I found from Telferizer and tell me if you are reasonably assured an AMPS mount platform for Zumo 390LM would be TALL ENOUGH to clear the bars and be in a location that would make it useful. I don't have this GPS device but am looking at it if i end up w/ this RTLC. I don't need the audio system in an RTLC because I've picked up the TAG Headwave so will use that for nav prompts and music, and won't need intercom and God forbid never want to answer a phone call while riding! I will let you know how the TAG device works when it arrives in a few days.

 

 

I can appreciate the convenience of having thumb control over GPS and a nice location for GPS etc but that plus ESA will come at a cost of about $6,000 over what I'm looking at now which is a nearly new '14 RTLC in my preferred color choice, so it's real tempting.

 

Thanks!

[NoelCP]

Noel, just some thoughts based on my riding experience with my 14 RT.

First, it would be nice to know the great price you are being offered in order to weigh the trade off of functionality.

For me, not having the integrated GPS would be a deal killer. The GPS is more than a direction giver, it also provides a smart phone link to provide traffic and weather updates (assuming you have a smart phone and good coverage). Also, it is controlled quite nicely from the wonder wheel and couples with the bikes clock as you go through time zones, keeping the displayed time correct.

Also, to my knowledge, you can not disable the abs but you can disable the stability control. As far as the ESA is concerned, I use it frequently on my RT while traveling long distances, depending on road surfaces. Also another feature I have come to love is the hill brake lock.

 

Thank you Milo. As mentioned above ESA & integrated GPS will come at a hefty price for me of around $6K, and that's before choosing Nav V over 390LM for example. I have no real sense of what Dynamic ESA brings to the table other than theoretical. I have non-dynamic ESA on my F800GT and truly I could leave it on any one of its 3 settings and while I 'notice a difference' it's never anything that meaningfully affects handling, ride quality, or other practical considerations in any way to where if it died tomorrow I would need to have it restored. I have no clue if 'Dynamic' really changes this impression about what ESA offers. Shift assist, Hill Start, these are features that don't ring the bell for me.

[realshelby]

I suppose you could say I had a non-ESA RT. My '04 with Ohlins shocks. The Ohlins made it much better than stock I must say. My '14 has ESA and while it spends 75% of its time in "road" I would hate to give up the ability to adjust for riding style and conditions. When on a long trip and the pavement is smooth and in the rain I use the "soft" setting. In the twisties I dial up the dynamic setting. I would not want a non adjustable bike after having ESA. While a non ESA with aftermarket shocks ( I won't say the stock shock needs upgrading till I ride one ) would be a great bike if set up perfectly, I would still miss the ability to adjust after getting time on the ESA bike. I will also add that every aftermarket shock I have owned has needed rebuilt due to leaking. I suspect the ESA shocks will have a longer life, or at least I hope so.

[Skywagon]

Dynamic ESA is different than regular shocks. Although some leave it in a single setting, the bike constantly adjust the suspension based on road conditions. I don't leave mine in 1 position. I have it in the medium position most of the time, but if I'm loaded or riding twisty, I go to the hard setting. It makes a big difference. The Nav V built in is a great tool and as others have said the weather, traffic, and other things controllable by the wonder wheel without having to take your hands off the bars is really special. The hill control...cat's meow I use it all the time.

 

That said, there is nothing wrong with a bike without the above. Prior to this bike all my prior bikes had regular manually adjustable shocks and a portable gps. I was just fine without it...but have to admit I really love the bike with the extras.

 

At the end of the day the new LC RT with wet clutch, more torque, more horsepower, lower center of gravity, is just a freaking awesome bike. You won't miss what you never had, but if you do go top of the line, you will appreciate the feature/functionality. Get the bike you can afford and never look back.

[NoelCP]

Ok sure I guess I better not pay for all of this stuff now else I'll be spoiled for life!

 

Cheers, thanks all I'll let you know how it all shakes out soon I hope. The scary part is having a bike shipped to me unridden, but it's almost new miles wise so hopefully it will work out OK. If I pick up this RTLC and don't like the boxer engine which I understand one either like a lot or puts up with, I figure I can trade it in on a new FJR1300ES for what it offers and not be out too much $$.

 

GPS is kind of a toy for me really as 90% of my riding is like most of ours in familiar territory. For our upcoming 9K over 30D trip in June '16 my riding buddy (brother) has a 390LM so that's all we would need to...find a motel, etc. We will be doing pre next day planning as we go as far as deviating from out basic route. I'm new enough at this I hardly know why I need a GPS! I do use my iPhone now and again on my current bike if I'm going somewhere I don't have confidence I can find, etc.

 

Here's one: any way to add 'GPS Prep' after the fact? That would be about the only add-on I could see splurging for after this discussion on ESA which I'm sensing is a good thing, but perhaps a minor good thing for someone using the bike for longer touring escapades on secondary roads and interstates and the odd tighter scenic twisty roads. For a super sports oriented machine w/ a rider who can exploit it might be especially valuable.

[John Bentall]

The GPS prep only makes sense if you have the Navigator V (or the Zumo 660 at a pinch). The Telferizer should work but might be obscured by a tank bag. or you might get an SW Motech City (or similar) tank bag with optional integrated GPS mount.

A SatNav is absolutely for me to negotiate densely populated cities.

 

There is a view that the Dynamic ESA is a bit of a gimmick to give riders another toy to play with. The non-ESA set-up will do the same job but is not linked into the other vehicle electronics.

[LudemJo]

Also, don't forget about the ability to adjust preload, as well as the damping. It is great to be able to adjust the preload instantly without removing saddlebags or reaching for tools like I do on the Electra Glide. When my wife wants to ride with me, I can adjust to two-up and soft, then when I drop her off, drop the preload and switch to dynamic in the time it takes her to get off the bike and remove her helmet.

 

I think you will be thrilled with the bike as long as you don't ride a fully optioned model.

 

Best of Luck to you, and Merry Christmas.

 

John

[NoelCP]

Also, don't forget about the ability to adjust preload, as well as the damping. It is great to be able to adjust the preload instantly without removing saddlebags or reaching for tools like I do on the Electra Glide. When my wife wants to ride with me, I can adjust to two-up and soft, then when I drop her off, drop the preload and switch to dynamic in the time it takes her to get off the bike and remove her helmet.

 

I think you will be thrilled with the bike as long as you don't ride a fully optioned model.

 

Best of Luck to you, and Merry Christmas.

 

John

 

Thanks John and others, still negotiating final pricing to see if I want to go there. Tell me if you will, if the ESA died on your D-ESA equipped RT, can you manually adjust spring preload? I ask because I will almost never need to adjust spring preload because I will have bike setup w/ side cases on always though with or without loading, and that's only a minor preload adjustment really. What I'd be very miffed about is 3y out if D-ESA died and I couldn't even manually adjust preload which as I say will rarely happen. No 2-up riding ever, etc.

 

Turns out with the price they countered with for this used lovely colored '14 I would have to pay another $1950, including factoring in the shipping cost for the '14, to get a '16 w/ full warranty & GPS Prep included and all the other features present, but no D-ESA. Add about another $1K for D-ESA.

 

One more question please for you if you will: w/ my GT's ESA there is absolutely no change let's say in 'softness' of ride quality in comfort v sport. It's just dampening rate, that's all that's affected. Is that also true w/ D-ESA? When I did my short RTLC test ride I didn't think to really evaluate for this. If I custom order, I will definitely do another test ride, so mainly just curious for now. Thanks!

[LudemJo]

As far as I know, there is no way to manually adjust preload on ESA suspension. Some of the older hands here, may know differently...I am a fairly new owner.

 

You can mix and match the suspension settings in any combination using soft, normal, hard and modes rain, normal, and dynamic. Essentially giving you 9 combinations.

 

Merry Christmas,

 

John

[DMilan]

Like many aspects of my 2 LC, I'm not a fan of Dynanmoe Hum ESA either.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all totally anti-tech.

ABS, traction control, cruise control all very useful.

Heated seats, grips and electric up down screen.... check.

 

The thing I like least about dynamic ESA is the way it adapts on the fly. The way it adapts to input sensors.

 

I don't care for that. It often seems like I'm fighting the bike for control, like when hustling into a set of turns.

 

I don't want the suspension settings to change because the sensors thinks it should be so.

 

I like the bike to be predictable beneath me.

 

I don't know if that made any sense.

 

If I can sell the GS this spring, I'm thinking of buying a Tiger 800. Ride modes, but no Dynamic ESA.

 

 

I guess that the only use I'd have for DESA is if I often needed to change preload. Which I do not.

 

[NoelCP]

Fascinating. I'm getting the sense from posting questions on a few forums that D-ESA is something I could live w/o, or with, however I'm leaning away from it especially for what I'm using an RTLC for. Definitely need ASC/ABS/Heated Grips/TPM/electric screen, but D-ESA is a wee bit of a toy to play with even as it is on my F800GT.

 

The price is too steep for this particular deal unless they come back and accept my counter offer to their counter offer. I think I'll plan on ordering a '16 in Plat Bronze w/ the Standard Package + TPM and maybe the Dynamic Package (Hill Start, Ride Modes Pro, Headlight Pro for $250 more) and we should be good to go.

 

Cheers, thanks for your wisdom, and Happy New Year to all ;o)

[strataj]

I wasn't a fan of ESA until now with D-ESA. I think it works great and would buy it again today. The after market is coming around to save big buck on replacement when the the time comes. D-ESA is on most bikes, you basically have to special order it without. This may not be your concern but I think resale (used) is going to put a non D-ESA low on someones selection list making it harder to sell, almost like painting a bike a custom color.

 

Jay

[NoelCP]

I wasn't a fan of ESA until now with D-ESA. I think it works great and would buy it again today. The after market is coming around to save big buck on replacement when the the time comes. D-ESA is on most bikes, you basically have to special order it without. This may not be your concern but I think resale (used) is going to put a non D-ESA low on someones selection list making it harder to sell, almost like painting a bike a custom color.

 

Jay

 

Hi Jay, do you have any references what you are referring to for replacement shocks that will function in the same D-ESA capacity as oem shocks, i.e. will integrate w/ the rest of the bike so that the big buck saving replacement shock truly is a surrogate, is controlled by switchgear, etc? If not, then it's really a situation where about the time I will sell the bike it may well need its shocks replaced in which case having D-ESA may in fact turn into a detriment to resale. It sounds more and more like an overpriced liability than something that truly affects handling/safety in a very substantial way. I will not be taking RTLC to the track, and my riding style sort of fits 'The Pace' concept basically. Yes, I would be custom ordering this bike w/ the Standard Package (Cruise, GPS Prep, Dual Acc Socket) + TPM + maybe the Dynamic Package. I also do not like the chrome muffler than comes on all the US Premium equipped RTLC's--much prefer the lovely brushed stainless for a classier look:

 

[strataj]

When BMW was going thru the shock recall a fellow local club member got a shock from The Beemer shop https://www.beemershop.com/ He sent them his OEM shock they removed the motor and installed.

 

Jay

[DMilan]

I also do not like the chrome muffler than comes on all the US Premium equipped RTLC's--much prefer the lovely brushed stainless for a classier look:

 

 

 

Off topic but, I agree.

 

My 2014 Rt has gone buh bye, but I prefered the look of the brushed stainless to the shiny chrome as well.

 

Just bought a used can for my 2010 GS.... I didn't even think of it, it's chrome... not what i would have preferred... oh well

 

 

 

[NoelCP]

I just learned BMW locked down the Rt and Lt cubbies for those RT's not equipped w/ the audio/BT package. This means no waterproof place to store/charge iPhone 5.

 

Santa brought me a Sena SMH10R, I installed into my RF-1200, and learned it's quite decent for music and nav prompts using Google Maps even w/ the in helmet speakers thru foam earplugs on my bike w/o full windscreen. I find that really disheartening, to take something like the bloody cubbies and seal them over so people can't use the storage space? Miffed enough to look again at '16 FJR1300ES.

[DMilan]

I just learned BMW locked down the Rt and Lt cubbies for those RT's not equipped w/ the audio/BT package. This means no waterproof place to store/charge iPhone 5.

 

you're kidding right?

[lkraus]

The fiche is interesting.

 

Right side trim, , without audio, appears to be a blank, unmovable cover, no compartment.

 

Right side storage compartment, is shown only with audio. MAX BMW shows the parts for that tiny plastic box will run you about $200, if you care to add it, without a USB port or lock cylinder. Though they throw in a free hole to mount one. Small items will probably fall out of the compartment.

 

Left side stowage compartment makes no mention of audio requirement; there is no blank cover listed. I'd guess you get this one regardless of the audio option, but I've never seen an RTW without audio.

 

 

I keep finding new reasons to be happy with my Hexhead. That big locking compartment where the radio would have been is really handy.

[NoelCP]

OK a fellow on the F800GT forum found owner's manuals for '14 & '15 RTLC and learned the left side cubby does have a locking cover thank the Lord and thank you Larry for your findings. One could install a USB charge connection inside the left side cubby presumably. Would iPhone 5 and a charge cable fit in it?

 

OK, will still consider this. I do not want to buy a typical US Premium Package RTLC w/ the fugly chrome muffler, blue tooth that by most every account I've read is verging on garbage, D-ESA that will cost you and arm and a leg to replace, etc ad nauseum. Rather spend the $$ on Nav V. I have a hard time believing no D-ESA RT will translate to poor handling, poor planting, etc. Test rides of any length are near to impossible where I live so I am thankful for forums to glean bits n pieces of info before making this very large purchasing decision. I'm hoping to get another ride on a '15 FJR very soon since the '16 models will not be on the west coast til around the end of February.

[DMilan]

I just read that the new BMW 300 single, built in India, will feature Dynamic Handling.

 

 

 

[lkraus]

I just read that the new BMW 300 single, built in India, will feature Dynamic Handling.

 

I had a bike like that once. It was a lot better after I tightened the axle nut and replaced the steering head bearings.

 

[bdfbeemer]

OK a fellow on the F800GT forum found owner's manuals for '14 & '15 RTLC and learned the left side cubby does have a locking cover thank the Lord and thank you Larry for your findings. One could install a USB charge connection inside the left side cubby presumably. Would iPhone 5 and a charge cable fit in it?

 

OK, will still consider this. I do not want to buy a typical US Premium Package RTLC w/ the fugly chrome muffler, blue tooth that by most every account I've read is verging on garbage, D-ESA that will cost you and arm and a leg to replace, etc ad nauseum. Rather spend the $$ on Nav V. I have a hard time believing no D-ESA RT will translate to poor handling, poor planting, etc. Test rides of any length are near to impossible where I live so I am thankful for forums to glean bits n pieces of info before making this very large purchasing decision. I'm hoping to get another ride on a '15 FJR very soon since the '16 models will not be on the west coast til around the end of February.

So why are you looking an RT?

[NoelCP]

So why are you looking an RT?

 

I like the curb weight, ergonomics, and TPM and my first impression of handling over FJR-ES. TPM is easily solved w/ Garmin Zumo TPM after switching out to metal stems. Ergos won't be changeable enough, but at least I know I can live w/ it because it is virtually identical to my F800GT ergos. Curb weight can't be reduced in FJR. I'd take the trimmed fairing, simpler dash, ultra smooth and reliable drive train in FJR over RT. At the moment the attributes favorable for RT for me outweigh those just mentioned where FJR is preferred.

[realshelby]

So why are you looking an RT?

 

I like the curb weight, ergonomics, and TPM and my first impression of handling over FJR-ES. TPM is easily solved w/ Garmin Zumo TPM after switching out to metal stems. Ergos won't be changeable enough, but at least I know I can live w/ it because it is virtually identical to my F800GT ergos. Curb weight can't be reduced in FJR. I'd take the trimmed fairing, simpler dash, ultra smooth and reliable drive train in FJR over RT. At the moment the attributes favorable for RT for me outweigh those just mentioned where FJR is preferred.

 

The RT comes with right angle metal valve stems. Wonderful design, very easy to use and shouldn't need replaced like conventional rubber stems. Just one of the many things BMW gives you that many don't notice till owning the bike for a while.

 

After reading your posts here and other forums I wonder if the FJR might be the better choice? Trying to take away the options that set an RT apart from the field tells me you might be happy with the lesser detailed FJR and pay a LOT less for it.

[NoelCP]

After reading your posts here and other forums I wonder if the FJR might be the better choice? Trying to take away the options that set an RT apart from the field tells me you might be happy with the lesser detailed FJR and pay a LOT less for it.

 

I've thought a lot about it and next steps are to get a real test ride in on an FJR and another on an RTW. In my mind what sets RT apart isn't every single technology bell and whistle, it's the basic design, the telelever, the ergos, the electric screen, the TPM, the fact it's possible to order it w/ a high seat for my 6'3" frame and yes the 90 degree metal stems which are on my F800GT and they are fabulous indeed. To make FJR work it would be mandatory swap out of the rubber stems so I could accommodate Zumo's TPM, adding an accessory socket since the sad one on the dash cubby is only rated for 2amps so is worthless for a compressor, and a few other changes including a touring screen which I don't think I'll need w/ RTW. If I end up eliminating D-ESA and the audio package this is right in there at $2400 worth of price reduction and by the time I modify FJR to meet the basics for what I'm looking for that LOT of money starts diminishing substantially. So yes, I've thought about it a lot...

[Fastjoe]

Noel for me i have had allot bikes. The BMW Rt has great packages but costly. Me personally i love the boxer motor either old or new, For a full on touring the weight is right, the bike feels great. I ride allot B Style roads here in California and the Telelever does a great job....When people get on a BMW for the first time its one of the few bikes that makes them a better rider right off, why because the bike gives them "confidence".

Iam 6'2" and have a high seat if you need one, i have a sargent with shimmed up base seat plugs and works well. Also have Illium bar backs which i like but you give up a touch of front end feed back, just saying...

It stinks that the dynamic ESA is linked to the audio pacage. I weigh 240 and use the motor in Dynamic and suspension in soft mode, works better for me when the motor mode is in touring and suspension is soft,

 

Bottom line for me is propbably the Telever front end...its a huge thing for street riders. For braking and the ride.

 

Good luck on your choice

 

 

 

 

[NoelCP]

[quote=Fastjoe

Good luck on your choice

 

Thanks Joe I'm very lucky to be in a position to get to make a choice. This Saturday looks like a perfect day weather-wise to get in another test ride on a new RT and a new FJR, in Roseville California. Where are you located?

 

BTW, the audio package isn't really linked to Dynamic ESA. But it appears in the USA most of the RTs come w/ the full premium package. I'm going to be custom ordering one soon, or a '16 FJR-ES--I will make the decision right after the test ride coming up.

[Fastjoe]

I live in west sacramneto now , I worked at @A&S 9 years as a salesman, retired from there. Need a hand in any way?

Who are you working with, I know all the salesman and the owner very well

 

Joe

[NoelCP]

I've talked to Ted a few times, never ridden anything there. I went down for the Vintage bike show I think it was in September and bought some boots there. I see they have a used '15 RT there w/ low miles so might be interested in that as it will save me some $$ for sure over a new one and maybe I can consider picking up the fully loaded one if it's used and lower in price.

 

I do have reliability-a-phobia w/ the BMW brand but by most recent accounts it's unjustified. I'm also checking out FJR and hope to ride another one soon, again in Roseville maybe this Saturday.

 

Thanks for the offer Joe maybe we can go out for a ride some time. I'm up in Paradise.

[Fastjoe]

Paradise been there allot...nice ride coming off the hill...

 

Good luck...Tell Ted to give you the Fast Joe special discount