The Huck A Bucking RT, or Rough Running Reloaded.

[Froggy]

Will be starting from scratch on the continuing saga of my 02RT...

Stay tuned...

Now for some sleep.

[JamesW]

That's the spirit

[Froggy]

That's the spirit

Yes,spirits, I will need lots and lots of spirits to keep working on this rolling piece of $&@#=!+? I prefer Malbec if anyone wants to send some my way

[dirtrider]

Morning Froggy

 

 

OK, lets start by having you define (in detail) the exact problem your bike now has, when it happens, at what RPM/gear it happens in, when it started happening.

 

Don't include what you have done to the bike yet as we will add that into the thread once we DEFINE your EXACT problem & RPM range that it happens in.

[Froggy]

Ok background 1st before my two fingers get tired.

Fall of 2013 had to remove abs due to failure almost killing me...bike ran fine afterwards.

Fall of 2014 splines trashed with only 33000 miles. I removed trans and gave to my mech to install new shaft and all seals. I installed hub adapter and then reinstalled trans.While putting bike back together pinched wire to brake light at foot pedal. Turn ign. on to start bike for 1st time and saw smoke. Ign.off and traced to melted positive lead going to brake switch at foot pedal. Remove switch and heat shrink bare wire and reinstall. Start bike and ride it like it was stolen starting approx 5/15 to make sure modified hub would hold before I took it to a Rally during the summer. Bike road great, no surging, no funny noises from trans. Several months of riding and no problems when on the way home from work the bike felt like it would loose a cylinder under steady power at any speed, any gear. At no time did it backfire when power came back on. This bike has surged before so I know what it feels like, adjust throttle bodies and she's fine. This was not surging, it felt like the brakes would be lightly applied indiscriminately. It would not happen at idle, or when I grabbed a handful of throttle.

The 1st day this happened on the way home from work I pulled into the garage and locked the throttle meister at around 3000 rpms, I watched as the rpms would rise up to 3300 then down to 2800 again and again.

Again the ONLY time this does not happen is at base idle or when I crank on the throttle. So this only happens in "closed loop" when computer is adjusting the parameters.

Ok, fingers tired.

[dirtrider]

.While putting bike back together pinched wire to brake light at foot pedal. Turn ign. on to start bike for 1st time and saw smoke. Ign.off and traced to melted positive lead going to brake switch at foot pedal. Remove switch and heat shrink bare wire and reinstall. Start bike and ride it like it was stolen starting approx 5/15 to make sure modified hub would hold before I took it to a Rally during the summer.

 

Afternoon Froggy

 

 

Great explanation so lets get started--

 

First thing lets figure out what else was effected by that burnt brake light s/w wire.

 

Seeing as you removed the ABS where did you power your brake light switches from. Did you also replace the OEM reverse-logic brake light switches or did you use the OEM brake light switches & a reversing relay?

 

Once we understand the possible burnt wire circuit we can move on to the next possibility.

 

[Froggy]

Um, I don't know. Removed everything including electric side of abs. Followed a thread on advrider on what wires to connect together from abs harness and only had to use one relay. I used the relay in the fuse box that ran the abs idiot light on the dash. If you need to know what wires I connected together (color code of each) I still have the paper I wrote down how to do it.

I did notice that the wire that melted does go into the same harness as the 02 sensor wire. But the melting of the insulation did not travel that far.

[dirtrider]

Morning Froggy

 

Yes, if possible give us the wire colors that you connected the burnt wire into?

 

We really should eliminate any chance that this is effecting your o2 sensor heating circuit or somehow melted the o2 wire harness effecting reference air getting to the sensor.

[roger 04 rt]

+1 to DR's request.

 

This is interesting again. The ABS rewiring and burned harness are critical information that I must have missed in the first thread.

 

Can you find the link to the advrider thread that was the basis of the rewiring?

 

Regarding the rear brake switch wiring on my diagram in the BMW manual, it doesn't run anywhere near the O2 harness. The rear switch runs to the electrical box and the O2 runs in the tray near the alternator.

 

It sounds to me like you found one of the spots where a wire melted the insulation but it may have melted in other places.

[Froggy]

I will track down thread and attach. I traced wire into same wiring harness bundle as the 02 sensor wires. If you picture harness bundle shaped like a K, the brake wire comes up the left leg and the 02 wire comes up the right leg. At some point they may be close together. Have not tried to trace due to heavy wrapping of harness...and its not easy to get to.

On another note, feeling a little better I used the bike to hit the gym today. Initially same buck a bucking, so after my work out I took some back roads. Bike feels great when I'm on and off the throttle but still bucking at constant rpm with no load. It could be me but the longer I road it didn't feel quite as bad. Got home and decided to lock throttle at 3000 rpms to see if it still ran up to 3300 and down to 2800. It didn't, more like rough running as I put my ear to muffler and could hear intermittent farting or puffing.

Before I had this problem I could lock throttle and it sounded like a sewing machine. So is it mainly gone, hard to tell with one 40 minute ride...question, should I have reset unit by pulling fuse after installing cleaned injectors?

 

 

[dirtrider]

question, should I have reset unit by pulling fuse after installing cleaned injectors?

 

 

Afternoon Froggy

 

No, but it never hurts to do it when in doubt.

 

But, be sure to do a TPS relearn ANYTIME you disconnect the battery or remove fuse #5. Don't forget the key-on WOT twice after battery re-connect.

[Froggy]

Okeedokeee

[Froggy]

OK here is the link where I use one relay to get my tail lights working...http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php/232002-Simple-NO-COST-servo-removal-of-1150-IABS-system

I also took the bike out after work today thru the neiborhood. I did not wear a helmet cause I wanted to here the motor. Pulled fuse this morning and reinstalled when I got home, then did the tps reset. Bike still has Hucka Bucka (Patent Pending ), and when I pulled into garage I let it idle for a moment. There is deffinatly a miss in the engine which I didn't notice before, probably cause the idle was so erratic.

Still with all the upper weight removed (speakers,ABS)and all the parts replaced or adjusted, when on the throttle this bike is shweeeet. Wonder what it would be like if I install the EXfied down the road...that is if I don't trash it with a hammer.

[dirtrider]

Morning Froggy

 

If wired per that thread then your burnt wire probably didn't ELECTRICALLY effecting your o2 sensor heater or reference.

 

That still doesn't mean that the burnt wire didn't somehow effect the o2 sensor wiring from heat damage.

 

I'm thinking at some point we should measure the o2 heater circuit supply power voltage.

 

That miss you now have is interesting & could have some effect on your problem (can you explain the miss in more detail?)

 

If you have an ohmmeter can you measure the secondary resistance of your plug wires & coil? Measure from one spark plug wire (part that snaps on the spark plug) all the way through to the other side spark plug wire (part that snaps on the spark plug)

 

We need to eliminate problems in that area next.

 

[Froggy]

Morning Froggy

 

If wired per that thread then your burnt wire probably didn't ELECTRICALLY effecting your o2 sensor heater or reference.

 

That still doesn't mean that the burnt wire didn't somehow effect the o2 sensor wiring from heat damage.

 

I'm thinking at some point we should measure the o2 heater circuit supply power voltage.

 

That miss you now have is interesting & could have some effect on your problem (can you explain the miss in more detail?)

 

If you have an ohmmeter can you measure the secondary resistance of your plug wires & coil? Measure from one spark plug wire (part that snaps on the spark plug) all the way through to the other side spark plug wire (part that snaps on the spark plug)

 

We need to eliminate problems in that area next.

Spark plugs replaced twice, plug wires replaced, coil replaced after this problem started.

[Froggy]

Morning Froggy

 

If wired per that thread then your burnt wire probably didn't ELECTRICALLY effecting your o2 sensor heater or reference.

 

That still doesn't mean that the burnt wire didn't somehow effect the o2 sensor wiring from heat damage.

 

I'm thinking at some point we should measure the o2 heater circuit supply power voltage.

 

That miss you now have is interesting & could have some effect on your problem (can you explain the miss in more detail?)

 

If you have an ohmmeter can you measure the secondary resistance of your plug wires & coil? Measure from one spark plug wire (part that snaps on the spark plug) all the way through to the other side spark plug wire (part that snaps on the spark plug)

 

We need to eliminate problems in that area next.

#946518 in "rough running woes" shows the numbers you need. You had me measure the pigtails coming out of computer way back when.

[roger 04 rt]

Froggy,

 

The O2 sensor you replaced was bad and based on the data you've sent me it is now working properly and doesn't seem likely to be part of the problem. However, follow any suggestions DR makes.

 

I went through the rewiring link on UKGSer and studied what you did. It seems to me that the rewire and the short circuit that melted the wire is very likely a problem if not THE problem.

 

In the wiring instructions you connected the GREEN wire at the ABS connector to the Yellow/Black wire going to the brake switch at the foot pedal. That GREEN wire goes from the ABS connector to connection point X9450 on the left side of the frame, below the alternator. From there, another Green wire goes to the Key Switch. This is an UNFUSED wire, and it is the bundle that also includes wires going directly to each ignition coil (unless you have the 2nd Load Relay).

 

Since that wire was unfused, you carried a very high current in it when the brake switch was shorted to the frame. It was enough to melt either your yellow/black or yellow green wire at the foot switch (which was it?). It was likely enough current to damage/degrade the key switch contacts and possibly melt the green wire in other places.

 

The stick coils are very sensitive to voltage drops and a degraded or intermittent key switch could lead to symptoms just like you're experiencing. You might want to put an LED on that wire while you ride to see if it flickers during the Huck a Bucking. I'd begin by measuring the voltage drop across the key switch at idle.

 

On top of that, your rewiring job also draws the tail-light current through the same key switch contacts as the Ignition coils, which can do nothing but make the situation worse.

 

Does your motorcycle have a 2nd Load relay to the left of the Coding Plug?

 

Somehow you need to confirm that the green wire network and key switch aren't damaged. I'll leave that to you and DR.

 

 

[dirtrider]

. It seems to me that the rewire and the short circuit that melted the wire is very likely a problem if not THE problem.

In the wiring instructions you connected the GREEN wire at the ABS connector to the Yellow/Black wire going to the brake switch at the foot pedal. That GREEN wire goes from the ABS connector to connection point X9450 on the left side of the frame, below the alternator. From there, another Green wire goes to the Key Switch. This is an UNFUSED wire, and it is the bundle that also includes wires going directly to each ignition coil (unless you have the 2nd Load Relay).

 

 

Morning Roger

 

I believe he has a 2002 1150RT & those all came as a single spark system.

[roger 04 rt]

. It seems to me that the rewire and the short circuit that melted the wire is very likely a problem if not THE problem.

In the wiring instructions you connected the GREEN wire at the ABS connector to the Yellow/Black wire going to the brake switch at the foot pedal. That GREEN wire goes from the ABS connector to connection point X9450 on the left side of the frame, below the alternator. From there, another Green wire goes to the Key Switch. This is an UNFUSED wire, and it is the bundle that also includes wires going directly to each ignition coil (unless you have the 2nd Load Relay).

 

 

Morning Roger

 

I believe he has a 2002 1150RT & those all came as a single spark system.

 

Hi DR,

I think you're right but the Green wire and Key Switch damage still seem like real possibilities. Given the current and heat generated.

 

[dirtrider]

 

Hi DR,

I think you're right but the Green wire and Key Switch damage still seem like real possibilities. Given the current and heat generated.

 

 

Morning Roger

 

Definitely worth checking & for-sure worth eliminating that right up front.

 

 

 

Froggy--

 

Hook your voltmeter to fuse (1) in the fuse box & a good clean chassis ground (probably the easiest place to access that circuit) then monitor the voltage at fuse (1) when the misfiring is happening.

 

This doesn't completely clear the entire circuit but if it shows low voltage at fuse (1) then we know where to start looking.

[Froggy]

Yes, single spark system. I was afraid the melted wiring might cause a problem down the road. Well at least it's winter and I have a garage. What a bear it's going to be to open up that wiring harness. Why can't BMW use a ground at the switch to complete a circuit?

DR, does it matter which side of fuse 1 I connect to?

[dirtrider]

Evening Froggy]

 

Why can't BMW use a ground at the switch to complete a circuit?---The OEM BMW switch was protected by the ABS controller. In fact it was a N/C switch circuit that went open with brake apply.

 

DR, does it matter which side of fuse (1) I connect to?-- Not really, the input side is usually the measuring point but that circuit is low load so the fuse resistance is nil.

[Froggy]

Thanks DR. HAPPY HOLIDAYS ALL

[Froggy]

Ok, got back from vaca on Fri and tore into wiring harness Sat and Sun. Pulled battery tray with all cables and opened up harness...NOTHING...NADA...ZIPPO. Sorry folks but this problem wins, month after month of dealing with this and nothing to show but expenses. Not to mention the work I did the prior two years (clutch spline at 32thou and abs removal). So I will ride it as is until I find a deal on another Silver 1150. Maybe someone will have a problem with their abs or clutch splines then I can get one cheap ( not trying to jinks anyone), then I will part out this one.

Thanks again everyone...sometimes the gremlins are going to win.