Forum Q for the day???

[Gene#3]

If this site is for "Sport Touring"... why is the GS "Adventure Bike" the only model with its own forum, while the real sport tourers, specifically the R1200RT & its predecessors,F800GT & K1600GT/S simply get "lumped" into generic groups???

[tallman]

Gene,

You know this started as an RT site, spread east, promulgated knowledge and friendship, adapted through new ownership, and changes in BMW ownership trends.

AS of now the GS outsells the other bikes by a large margin.

The 800/1600 are barely blips.

FWR, the GS riders here were posting more info/tales/tech days so it seemed natural to me that they have thier own forum.

Plus, keeping them over there allows the rest of us to enjoy some sanity.

As for the real reasons, I don't know, but can live with things as they are.

Best wishes.

[Glenn Reed]

Gene,

 

I'm a little confused. There are four different forums for the RT's: Oilheads, Hexheads, Camheads, and Wetheads.

 

Yes, the GS's get their own. Having been to a few events where our folks get together, mostly in the Southeast, there are more and more converts to the GS bikes, even among those who do not wander far off the pavement.

 

The K bikes are grouped in one forum, which includes everything from the flying bricks to Tim's beloved K12 and siblings, as well as the newer K16 models.

 

Yes, the F bikes get lumped together with Airheads and such, but the vast majority of owners who come here fall under one of the above referenced categories.

 

Some of it is because of the relative ownership of those bikes by the participants here. Some of it comes back to how much screen real estate we want to use, and whether it serves the users to have more and more separate forums to cover all the iterations.

 

Glenn

 

 

[Jake]

I would argue that the four different forums are for the predominant engine types, and that includes GSs along with RTs, and others.

 

The GS kids did get their own special forum because the rest of us were jealous of all of their discussion of larger tank sizes, favorite spoke tightening wrenches, and really cool moon boots with buckles.

 

That, and the owner of the forum at that time owned one.

 

Gene's question of the day touches upon something real, however. The most popular forum in those good 'ol early days was Ride Tales, and there was a whole bunch of cool going on in there. Then, as new models/engines were released forums were created to reflect that - thus creating splinter groups over time. Certainly helpful for farkling and wrenching, but maybe less so for general lip flapping for all to see. I poked around the Wetheads section the other day (for the first time ever), and I saw robust discussions, new members with enthusiasm, etc. - very nice to see. I wonder openly if some type of forum section reorganization would create something more inclusive for the site. It could also turn out to be disastrous!

 

Anyway, good question, no real answer that I know of (except that it's Baker's fault) but thought provoking.

[Scud]

FWIW - as a new member I find the site fairly easy to navigate. I makes sense to have some mechanical separation, by engine type. Then there's common stuff and common activities where everyone can participate regardless of year or model of bike.

 

There are some differences in sport touring between asphalt only and getting offroad. I never had a a GS, but I had a KTM 950 Adventure next to My 1100RT for a while. Make that radically different.......

[roadscholar]

The GS kids did get their own special forum because the rest of us were jealous of all of their discussion of larger tank sizes, favorite spoke tightening wrenches, and really cool moon boots with buckles.

 

That, and the owner of the forum at that time owned one.

 

..(except that it's Baker's fault)

 

Not exactly. In late November 2012 I sent Fernando a PM delineating several reasons why it would be a good idea for GS's to have their own forum. He answered saying it was something they'd already been thinking about and would consider over the next weeks. Within a few days it was up.

 

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=812240#Post812240

 

Like Tim mentioned GS's outsell all other BMW's by quite a bit mainly because they are so versatile. Not only are they decent at offroad but also good for touring, sport touring, surprisingly agile in the twisties, and take to track days like ducks to water. Not to mention they have created the fastest growing segment in motorcycling.

 

Part of it was I wanted to emphasize the Gelande in GS and try to get a percentage (I knew it would be small on a sport-touring site) of owners to venture offroad and discover that there's a whole other world out there to see. It just rquires a few basic techniques and some practice, no different than riding on-road competently.

 

There is a growing number of off-roading GS riders here, still a small percentage of the whole but significant, plus there are those that grew up riding offroad and take to it naturally (we know who they are : )). Anyway, the forum didn't take off quite like I'd hoped it would but so far it's been fun and appears to keep growing.

 

There have been some fairly epic rides along the way and am certain there will be more, which I think is what this stuff is supposed to be all about...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jake]

I would have lost that trivia bet by a country mile! Sure seemed that the forum was around for far longer than that - thanks for the background. That's not to say that us non-GS kids aren't still jealous...

[realshelby]

This is one of few sites I don't automatically go for the "new posts" button. I think the forum has a place for a GS, as well as K, and F as well. Remember, the original site was BMW RT, not BMW ST. While I don't spend much time on certain areas, I do look occasionally. I think the layout of this site works very, very well. Seems to be open about adding/subtracting topics. Tells me that those in charge still CARE!

 

While the brand and format might bring first time visitors, I am convinced the people here are what sets it far apart from any other forum. In a good way I might add

 

[Bud]

The GS kids did get their own special forum because the rest of us were jealous of all of their discussion of larger tank sizes, favorite spoke tightening wrenches, and really cool moon boots with buckles.

 

That, and the owner of the forum at that time owned one.

 

..(except that it's Baker's fault)

 

Not exactly. In late November 2012 I sent Fernando a PM delineating several reasons why it would be a good idea for GS's to have their own forum. He answered saying it was something they'd already been thinking about and would consider over the next weeks. Within a few days it was up.

 

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=812240#Post812240

 

Like Tim mentioned GS's outsell all other BMW's by quite a bit mainly because they are so versatile. Not only are they decent at offroad but also good for touring, sport touring, surprisingly agile in the twisties, and take to track days like ducks to water. Not to mention they have created the fastest growing segment in motorcycling.

 

Part of it was I wanted to emphasize the Gelande in GS and try to get a percentage (I knew it would be small on a sport-touring site) of owners to venture offroad and discover that there's a whole other world out there to see. It just rquires a few basic techniques and some practice, no different than riding on-road competently.

 

There is a growing number of off-roading GS riders here, still a small percentage of the whole but significant, plus there are those that grew up riding offroad and take to it naturally (we know who they are : )). Anyway, the forum didn't take off quite like I'd hoped it would but so far it's been fun and appears to keep growing.

 

There have been some fairly epic rides along the way and am certain there will be more, which I think is what this stuff is supposed to be all about...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From your sig line, I see you didn't just ride in on a Buell but odds are you did rid in on a ADV bike!

[TestPilot]

If this site is for "Sport Touring"... why is the GS "Adventure Bike" the only model with its own forum, while the real sport tourers, specifically the R1200RT & its predecessors,F800GT & K1600GT/S simply get "lumped" into generic groups???

 

I thought the real sport tourers were the R-RS and R-ST models.

 

[chrisolson]

I thought the real sport tourers were the R-RS and R-ST models.

Let's not forget the straight 'S' model both R and K models Owning an R1100S and also having spent a fair amount of time on a next gen K1200S I can say both are excellent sporting machines that tour effectively.

 

But back to the OP question ... I agree with new member Scud. The site organization and current forum breakout by engine / activity is logical and easy to understand.

[roadscholar]

 

From your sig line, I see you didn't just ride in on a Buell but odds are you did rid in on a ADV bike!

 

I actually had a Buell when I wrote that, an XB12S-TT (like a Ulysses with less suspension), I should change it but meant more as a joke really : )

 

I discovered Adventure bikes probably like a lot of people, had a few airheads and K bikes but by the mid-90's those touring bikes kept wanting to turn down sandy two-tracks and after struggling a bit (sometimes two-up) it dawned on me there had to be a better way. So I tried a couple Funduros, an 1100GS and the '02 1150Adv in my avatar (still have it). I'd been leading road rides for the local BMW club (no one else wanted to ) but by the early 2000's started doing GS rides.

 

This was a real eye-opener discovering the everyone wasn't on the same page, disparity of ability being a good bit different than riding on the street, and it took awhile to adjust. We won't go into details but suffice to say it caused some controversy and consternation among the BMW club hierarchy.

 

Actually we just had to find roads with a harder surface and luckily there was a National Forest close by with built up limerock roads, and then we could gradually add more sand with time (Fla only has a couple types of terrain, dirt roads with a little sand on top, two track jeep trails that are often bottomless sand, and all the above when wet... mud).

 

With time (7 or 8 years) we gravitated away from the BMW club and began a dual-sport specific group (CADS- classic, adventure, dual sport) all the while moving toward smaller and lighter bikes more suited for our local conditions. We organize two events a year (Polar Bear Rally in early Jan. and Trans-Fla. in early March) and do some spontaneous rides in between, usually including small and big bike routing. Needless to say it's been a lot of fun getting to this point.

 

 

[tallman]

Which brings us to why David changed the name from BMWRT to BMWST for those who are new.

Perhaps spmeone wants to link that thread.

I'm lazy tonight.

[Jake]

Which brings us to why David changed the name from BMWRT to BMWST for those who are new.

Perhaps spmeone wants to link that thread.

I'm lazy tonight.

 

I had better volunteer - redemption seeking and all that...

 

I believe the name change discussion goes back further than our search engine can reach, but here is a reflective thread which shows a bit of history.

 

[Mike]

At some point we figured out that the term "sport touring" was whatever you wanted to make it. The GS types were insistent that they were kindred spirits, though we suspected that they just wanted to hang out with the cool kids. Anyway, once we cleared up a console or two that was previously devoted to keeping the LT spammers out of the discussion board, we found we had enough computing capacity and manpower to accommodate the GSers . . . .

 

[ltljohn]

Is that middle screen tracking the black helicopter and jet?

[EffBee]

The GS kids did get their own special forum because the rest of us were jealous of all of their discussion of larger tank sizes, favorite spoke tightening wrenches, and really cool moon boots with buckles.

 

That, and the owner of the forum at that time owned one.

 

..(except that it's Baker's fault)

 

Not exactly. In late November 2012 I sent Fernando a PM delineating several reasons why it would be a good idea for GS's to have their own forum. He answered saying it was something they'd already been thinking about and would consider over the next weeks. Within a few days it was up.

 

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=812240#Post812240

 

Like Tim mentioned GS's outsell all other BMW's by quite a bit mainly because they are so versatile. Not only are they decent at offroad but also good for touring, sport touring, surprisingly agile in the twisties, and take to track days like ducks to water. Not to mention they have created the fastest growing segment in motorcycling.

 

Part of it was I wanted to emphasize the Gelande in GS and try to get a percentage (I knew it would be small on a sport-touring site) of owners to venture offroad and discover that there's a whole other world out there to see. It just rquires a few basic techniques and some practice, no different than riding on-road competently.

 

There is a growing number of off-roading GS riders here, still a small percentage of the whole but significant, plus there are those that grew up riding offroad and take to it naturally (we know who they are : )). Anyway, the forum didn't take off quite like I'd hoped it would but so far it's been fun and appears to keep growing.

 

There have been some fairly epic rides along the way and am certain there will be more, which I think is what this stuff is supposed to be all about...

 

Let's see if I can help a little. I've been an Admin on this board since its infancy. Today, 16 years later, I run it along with a great team of Admins. Not patting myself on the back because I'd do it again, but dang that's a lot of volunteer hours. All of our Admins put in those hours, and two others for about as long as I have. It's a labor of love.

 

Over the years, I've seen many changes. It started as BMWRT.com, and it was PURELY an RT site. Our first big Tech Daze was at Gleno's house, and we lined up something like 21 beautiful RT's along the wall leading up his driveway, then tore into them over a 3-day weekend to learn everything we could about these exciting new machines. Then we had our big BBQ at the first Redmond, OR, MOA Rally (or was it vice versa). I think we had 102 members show up. Freaked out some MOA people. They hadn't considered that an "eClub" could be what we were. They still haven't fully come to grips with us. Then the bi-annual Torrey, UT rides. Then the first UnRally (gonna be UnRally XV next year - - - Wow!), Texas Hill Country Rides, El Paseo, Mayhem in the Mountains, BBB, START, FART (I know I'm leaving many out). Through it all, people found us and they liked us. No cussin/swearin, no porn, religion or politics, etc. Just riding, wrenching and sharing (always with courtesy towards all, even in disagreement). And some of those new people didn't always ride RT's. But mostly they rode BMW's. Or not. I myself experimented with an FJR and a 650 V-strom for a while. But I came back to RT ownership. Once it's in your blood, you're hooked. Meanwhile, more people with more different motorcycles kept coming onto the site and showing up at our events to see what we were about. And they liked us and we liked the, so they stayed. To address this, we came up with an informal vision statement, of sorts, which was to "share the enjoyment of sport touring primarily but not exclusively aboard BMW motorcycles." At that time, the RT sold about as well as the GS in the U.S. But that was about to change.

 

BMW always leads new boxer models with a GS, usually a full model year ahead of the RT, RS, R and others. And the 2004 Hexhead GS turned everything upside down. It was not only lighter than previous models, but it performed like few knew a boxer could. That model, and its Adventure variant, helped change the U.S. market into what the rest of the world was, i.e. GS-dominant. The Hexhead (GS and RT) were so different, so impressive, that the engine type required its own forum. About the time of that change, then board owner David Baker sought to be more inclusive, so he changed the name of the board from BMWRT.com to BMWST.com (BMWSportTouring.com). As BMW continued to evolve the boxer, from Oilhead to Hexhead to Camhead to Wethead, we found our members embracing both the RT and the GS. Many owned both, praising one for its multi-road diversity and the other for its cross-country capability. The GS Forum idea had been percolating in my head for a while, when I got a message from Roadscholar inquiring about it. That pushed me over the edge and I admitted that we needed to expand our base. Actually, it had already expanded. We just needed to embrace it more fully.

 

To so many of our members, this board is a second home. The friendships, knowledge, events they share with each other helps them connect and make new friends across the U.S. and around the world To me, too. But as the owner I also have to look at this home of ours as a "product," something that needs refreshing, needs to have new features added, needs to stay current in order to retain member interest in an ever-expanding market of social media diversions. With the expanding GS base among our members, and with their desire to continue to be a part of the BMWST community, it made sense to give them their own forum. Their technical issues are handled, as are RT issues, in the various boxer-type forums. But the GS forum is a place for them to express the sheer joy they get from the multi-faceted capabilities of their bikes. Yes, you can sport-tour on a GS. But you can't do much on a single-track with your RT. And so, the GS Forum was born.

 

Everyone here is part of our family. Whether on this board or at so many of our events around the nation, we get together, ride and share the joy we get from our BMWs and from our other bikes (some owners have trucked in dirt bikes once they've been to an event a few times and have ridden all the good paved roads). For me, it doesn't matter what you ride. If you're our kind of person, you're welcome here.