Guilt By Perceived Association

[szurszewski]

Hey there, gentlemen

 

Looks like you both are pretty new to the neighborhood, so I felt like a quick reminder that we try to play nice here, along with a third party point of view that you seem to be getting pretty close to personal attacks (as opposed to discussion of facts and opinions). I'd imagine you're both fine folks and mean no malice, so maybe this would be a good time to carefully consider what you put in future posts in this thread.

 

Politics is supposed to be off limits here too - mostly - though I can see where this thread was heading that way from the beginning.

 

Anyway, I'm not a mod, and actually consider myself somewhat new around here as well, so this is just my $0.02.

 

thanks for reading -

josh

[Marty Hill]

What's funny is one of them just left the MOA site as he thought it was to tame.

[szurszewski]

What's funny is one of them just left the MOA site as he thought it was to tame.

 

Yeah, I hear it's just a bunch of old guys talking about oil over there.

 

[beemerboy]

What's funny is one of them just left the MOA site as he thought it was to tame.

 

Yeah, I hear it's just a bunch of old guys talking about oil over there.

 

Aww, geeez, ha had to go and use the dreaded "O" word, didn't take? Now we're in for hundreds of posts about "synthetic this" or "mineral that" and then some guy from Michigan (you know who I'm talking about) is going to chime in with all his data from lab tests......

[tallman]

I started with dino police but then switched to synthetic becasue they always ask nice if I'll consent to an oil change.

[beemerboy]

Aww, geeez, ha had to go and use the dreaded "O" word, didn't take? Now we're in for hundreds of posts about "synthetic this" or "mineral that" and then some guy from Michigan (you know who I'm talking about) is going to chime in with all his data from lab tests......

 

This is what happens when you reply using an iPhone....

 

 

[Gregori]

 

This is what happens when you reply using an iPhone....

 

Uh-oh! Don't you be bringing religion into the discussion, now!

[Beemer Dood]

LoL that you thought that's what just happened. Speaks volumes about "smart" cops, doesn't it?

 

It speaks "volumes" about your experience and even more about the misinformation that you so freely disseminated. To remind the readers, you told us that your mom, a "20 year cop ... told [you] to say ... 'No sir, you may not search my vehicle. The Fourth Amendment guarantees me against unreasonable search, and if you had a 'reasonable' suspicion of a crime, you wouldn't have to ask. Since you're asking, your search must be unreasonable' " [Emphasis Added]

 

Either you got it wrong or you mother gave you bad advice and misinformation that you've passed along here. Just because a police officer asks for consent DOES NOT MEAN that his search "must be unreasonable." That's your first, and most egregious error. Now let's move to your second error.

 

What's that got to do with the price of eggs in China,

 

You're the one who brought racial profiling up, not me.

 

or the fact that it happens here all the time and from what I hear, not a that a infrequently in Harlem, too.

 

Since you claim that "it happens here all the time," does that means that your mother was guilty of racial profiling too? Oddly, in 30 years of law enforcement, I saw it only very rarely. That racial profiling occurs "all the time" is as false a narrative as 'Hands up, don't shoot.'

 

Where can I find one of these "smart" cops? As we already established, there seems to be q local shortage of them.

 

This has more to do with your admitted limited experience than anything else. The dozens of police officers that I trained ask for consent, even when they have warrants or PC. I find it odd that your mother, who should have known better, gave you bad information, that you've repeated here.

 

We established that the police-in-question didn't have reasonable suspicion, when every cop who ever heard those words come out of my mouth subsequently DID NOT search my vehicle, thereby acknowledging (as you so repeatedly pointed out) that he had NO reasonable suspicion to be conducting a search in the first place.

 

Let's get back to basics. It's really very simple. The clear meaning of your initial statement was that if a police officer asked for consent for a search, that he did not have reasonable suspicion. That's simply factually wrong. IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, apparently, the officers involved did not have PC or they'd have searched in spite of your refusal. But since your experience is such a small sample of the millions of searches that are done every day, it's led you down a wrong road.

 

Which is why he generally fell back to more proven, if just as legally questionable tactics like (as you repeatedly pointed out) racial profiling.

 

Asking for consent either with or without a warrant or PC is hardly a "legally questionable tactic" as you claim. Rather it's a proven, effective and completely legal law enforcement technique for getting into a car.

 

I "repeatedly pointed [it] out" because you proposed the situation. Given your statement, do you have any evidence that any officer who asked to search your car went on to racially profile anyone? Or it is just, as the thread title says "guilt by perceived association?" It looks like it's NOT just the officer shown in the initial video, who seems to think this way. You seem to have a similar 'broad brush.'

 

[Huzband]

[Dave_zoom_zoom]

OK OK Enough!

 

Dave

[lkraus]

What's funny is one of them just left the MOA site as he thought it was to tame.

 

And on BMWLT the other made the "ignore" option popular. (We need that here)

 

Most of us are here to share information and experiences, not for tiresome pointless arguments.

[Glenn Reed]

not for tiresome pointless arguments.

 

You mean something like this?

[Beemer Dood]

Most of us are here to share information and experiences, not for tiresome pointless arguments.

 

And if that information is FALSE, as is the case here, it sounds as if you'd prefer that it just stand rather that there be some conrtroversy? Anyone who tells you that police ONLY ask for consent if they don't have PC doesn't know what he's talking about. That MISinformation can land someone in jail, if they act on it.

 

[Drakas]

Sweet Jesus I admit it.

 

I just made the whole thing up. I don't even know my mother. I was adopted from a Russian orphanage by a traveling circus/gospel quartet.

 

Happy now, Chief Gates?

[chrisolson]

... And on BMWLT the other made the "ignore" option popular. (We need that here)

 

It exists. Just click on the offending party's name above their avatar, select "View Profile" ... then roughly in the middle of the next screen click on the option to "Ignore this user". May or may not work like other forum's software, but at least cuts some of the noise

[Beemer Dood]

Sweet Jesus I admit it.

 

I just made the whole thing up. I don't even know my mother. I was adopted from a Russian orphanage by a traveling circus/gospel quartet.

 

Happy now, Chief Gates?

 

THIS is the sort of response that makes for "tiresome, pointless discussions." I'm sorry that either you got it wrong or that you mother gave you bad information, but that doesn't change the fact that just because a police officer asks for consent means that he doesn't have PC for a search of a car, as you tried to convince the members.

 

I’m here to learn about BMW's since I just became an owner. I've been teaching police and civilians search and seizure for about 40 years, so I have a bit of knowledge on the subject. The discussion on BMWLT, that was referenced, was another source who got it wrong, just as you did. Like him, you simply could not admit it, and instead, like him, you got snarky. It continues in this, your latest post.

 

[EffBee]

... And on BMWLT the other made the "ignore" option popular. (We need that here)

 

It exists. Just click on the offending party's name above their avatar, select "View Profile" ... then roughly in the middle of the next screen click on the option to "Ignore this user". May or may not work like other forum's software, but at least cuts some of the noise

 

Unfortunately, as Administrators, we can't use that button. I can tell you that we have absolutely GREAT members here. But over the years there have been a few "rectocrats" where if that IGNORE button were accessible to us (it is, but permission to use is not), we'd have pushed it. Instead, we have to remove them for the good of the board.

 

To the protagonists in this developing soap opera, several members above have given you sage advice. Keep to the issues and leave the personalities out of it. We've all learned you can have some great discussions, even strident ones, without making it personal. So don't cross that line. And if one does, don't be the second one, because "He did it first" is no defense.

 

Be nice. Play nice. Disagree nice. Learn it. It does work.

[chrisolson]

... But over the years there have been a few "rectocrats" where if that IGNORE button were accessible to us (it is, but permission to use is not), we'd have pushed it.

Yes, its much more pleasant if folks play nice and most do. I guess missing out on the BMWST corp jet and all the other Admin perks ( ) can be offset by having the ability to push that old ignore button whenever I want.

[EffBee]

... But over the years there have been a few "rectocrats" where if that IGNORE button were accessible to us (it is, but permission to use is not), we'd have pushed it.

Yes, its much more pleasant if folks play nice and most do. I guess missing out on the BMWST corp jet and all the other Admin perks ( ) can be offset by having the ability to push that old ignore button whenever I want.

 

This corporate jet?

 

[Huzband]

Wow! The Mods are better off than I thought.

[beemerboy]

Yes, its much more pleasant if folks play nice and most do. I guess missing out on the BMWST corp jet and all the other Admin perks ( ) can be offset by having the ability to push that old ignore button whenever I want.

 

 

I was promised a ride on the BMWST corporate jet when I reached the 1000 post mark. Never got it, still waiting for it.

 

Getting back to the OP and thread topic, it seems as a few folks here have more than made their point. Let's move on, mkay?

[Huzband]

Well, now that I've finally had a look at the "corporate jet" ,I understand why the Administrators are usually in such a bad humor.

[Oldironken]

How comfortable are the seats?

[OoPEZoO]

How comfortable are the seats?

 

How comfortable do you you think it is? I'll give you one guess where all of the BMW stock seats go to die? The BMWST corporate jet of purgatory. You would be praying for a milk crate to sit on by the time it was done taxiing to the runway.

[Hank in WV]

I'm told the seats were re-done by Russel.