RosBos Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 My original to bike stick coil is failing (89K miles). Week and sporadic spark. The other one was replaced at 50k (stamped as /08) and it seems to be ok. Has anyone used these: https://store.bobsbmw.com/product/ignition-coil-for-oil-heads-2-spark--hex-heads and for that matter how is bob's bmw for ordering from them? I probably should replace both (as they say BMW bulletin is recommending), makes sense? Link to comment
Boomer343 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Good coils, I replaced both and would suggest the same to you. Have you checked Rogers thread about some 04's having a separate relay for the stick coils? Can't comment on Bobs BMW but you may want to check with them on their stock as I know Beemer Boneyard is currently out. Link to comment
Glenn Reed Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Bob's is my local dealer, and I routinely get parts from them, as well as from Beemer Boneyard when that makes more sense. I have not tried to order from Bob's online, as I just take a ride down and get the parts and have an excuse to go for a ride. If you call and ask if they have them in stock, I would trust the answer you get over the phone implicitly. Good folks to deal with. Link to comment
RosBos Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 Found the Rogers thread about relay. Will read tonight more carefully, as some of it is over my head. I don't think it is my problem in this case though. I will call Bob's before ordering, thanks for sharing good opinions. Visiting local dealer here to see where are they at with price and availability today. Link to comment
waynerd Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 A little while back these newer coils (with stainless jacketed body, made by Beru) started to appear on the scene. They were purported to be more durable. I don't know if any old stock still exists, but maybe pay close attention to what you are actually getting, especially at your local shop. Easiest identifier is the SST jacket, or lack thereof. Euro MotoElectrics is another good source for these (though no M&M's). Link to comment
RosBos Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 Sort of neglected this thread... Ended up ordering these coils from Bob's, they were backordered but arrived within two weeks I think. It didnt matter as I was in Europe at the time so bike was parked. After replacing them I was shocked how big difference they made. Did another TB sync and I can say all of my troubles are gone now, solid cold start, great idle and smooth running. Bike use to die at the cold start, idle was not consistent, it would stumble and die on some fast slowdowns at the stop lights... All the things I did during pre-riding season this year (Iowa winter project), cleaning the TB's, replacing idle screws, valve adjustments, new spark plugs, multiple TB syncs, injectors sent to be cleaned, they all made some deference, but only after I replaced these coils I am finally happy with how it runs. Link to comment
RosBos Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 How the right one (original to bike 2004) ran: https://goo.gl/photos/pAtg3QAi6dRR75FH8 How the left one (replaced by previous owner, dated 6/08) ran: https://goo.gl/photos/ucGgqYNmESuGug8r7 Link to comment
roger 04 rt Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Some 2004 twin spark bikes have something called a second load relay whose function is to power the stick coils from the battery instead of through the key switch. My 2004 was built before the relay was added so I rewired to add the relay, after replacing the stick coils (and getting better starting). Adding the relay made a further improvement to starting and idling. The relay is located in the same row and directly to the left of the coding plug in the electrical box. Do yours have the relay? Link to comment
RosBos Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 Some 2004 twin spark bikes have something called a second load relay whose function is to power the stick coils from the battery instead of through the key switch. My 2004 was built before the relay was added so I rewired to add the relay, after replacing the stick coils (and getting better starting). Adding the relay made a further improvement to starting and idling. The relay is located in the same row and directly to the left of the coding plug in the electrical box. Do yours have the relay? At work now, will check tonight when I get home... Link to comment
speedybee Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Sort of neglected this thread... Ended up ordering these coils from Bob's, they were backordered but arrived within two weeks I think. It didnt matter as I was in Ros, Did you get the Beru made coils from Bob's? And if so, did they come with the top rubber boot/spacer or did you reuse the old rubber? I ordered mine from BBY and they did not come with the rubber boot. Speedy Link to comment
RosBos Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 Speedybee Same here, had to reuse the old rubber. Beru didn't come with one. Fit was good so no issues I guess. Link to comment
RosBos Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 Some 2004 twin spark bikes have something called a second load relay whose function is to power the stick coils from the battery instead of through the key switch. My 2004 was built before the relay was added so I rewired to add the relay, after replacing the stick coils (and getting better starting). Adding the relay made a further improvement to starting and idling. The relay is located in the same row and directly to the left of the coding plug in the electrical box. Do yours have the relay? Roger Yes, my bike has that relay in place already. pic: https://goo.gl/photos/MaoiXYnTzasMLfQC8 Another question for you and DR: although I am pretty happy with how it runs now, there is always more room for improvement. Anything that I can possibly check with GS-911, record data or findings and have you take a quick look? Depending on findings confirm it is OK or perhaps point in direction of improving it? No big deal, I just figure I would ask... Link to comment
roger 04 rt Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 RosBos, Since you have that relay, I'd say you're good to go. Since the Motronic/Coils/Injectors are voltage sensitive, a well charged battery, clean, well serviced starter and fresh pair of lower plugs all help with starting and idling too. Swapping the high bean 3W indicator bulb with the 1.7W Alt/Batt indicator helps the alternator come on line faster which can make for better idling right after starting. I bet the mornings are cold now in Iowa so it's a good time to record a cold-start log. Let the bike sit overnight, put the fast idle lever in the mid-detent position, set up a fan so that the bike doesn't overheat, set up the GS-911 to record a CSV file for all realtime values, with data collection speed set at the high end of the slider. Then start the bike without touching the throttle and let it idle until 4-5 bars on the oil temp gauge. Once it's warm drop the fast idle lever to off, let it idle another minute, stop logging, shut off bike. Then go through every sensor, looking at their progressions as the bike warms up. The lambda sensor voltage column is especially important because it confirms the cold start AFR progression. I'd be happy to take a look when you're done. Of course, check for errors. Also, you can use the TPS alignment tool on the GS-911 and confirm that it's in the center of the display. Link to comment
dirtrider Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Another question for you and DR: although I am pretty happy with how it runs now, there is always more room for improvement. Anything that I can possibly check with GS-911, record data or findings and have you take a quick look? Depending on findings confirm it is OK or perhaps point in direction of improving it? No big deal, I just figure I would ask... Morning RosBos You seem to be from the center of alcohol laced fuel so you might be out of luck on this one-- a quick fix for getting your stock bike to run a bit better is (IF) you can find some non-alcohol fuel. Even a slightly lower octane will usually run better than a tank full of 10% or 15% alcohol fuel. Even mixing 1/2 tank of non-alcohol fuel into a tank of E-10 will usually make a slight improvement in perceived engine operation. It won't be night & day different but should be noticeable. Link to comment
Froggy Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Roger, you and dirtrider are sooo helpful on this site. Love the pic. Link to comment
RosBos Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 Roger, you and dirtrider are sooo helpful on this site. Love the pic. +1 on that! DR, I heard this non alcohol theory from someone else but dismissed it thinking I would just get more knocking with lover octane fuel. Never tried it, now I will and yes we do have non alcohol 87 octane available. Roger, I will plan to do this in next week or two, still learning what all GS-911 can do and how to do it. Link to comment
RosBos Posted December 29, 2015 Author Share Posted December 29, 2015 Well, finally found time to record output data this weekend. Forwarded to Roger and he was kind (many thanks) to look it over and interpret for me. Below find his comments and few charts that we all can learn and benefit from: email: "Attached is your CSV file, imported into Excel, with various data plotted. I’ve added a couple columns on the right of the data field: period and dwell and you can see how I’ve calculated each. My purpose is just so that I can see how the dwell time varies with different versions of the MA 2.4. Your data set is very complete and most everything looks quite good. Notice that the Lambda Sensor voltage is nicely high (meaning a rich mixture) while your bike warms up and then enters and stays in Closed Loop once the bike hits 110F or so. Here are some things I picked up. 1) When warmed up to ~ 200F, your bike should idle at 1100 RPM (1150 is okay). It seems like your bike is 1250-1300 RPM. Use the BBS screws to bring the idle down. (Your TPS is reading 0.32 degrees which is correct. And your fast idle is 3.2 degrees which is good too.) 2) Your bike takes about 2.5 seconds to start and almost 10 seconds for the RPM to get to 1250 to 1300 RPM. You can probably get it to start in 1.5 seconds or less and be running at fast idle in 3 seconds, which is about what mine does. On the other hand, nothing is wrong so you can run just as it is. The Motronic, coils and injectors are pretty sensitive to battery voltage during starting. Here is the list of things I’ve found that affect starting times on the twin-spark: a) The twin spark needs all four plugs to be fresh. b) The battery needs to be fully charged. If you have a PC680 or other AGM battery, it should measure 12.8V or higher before you turn the key on. Also, if a PC680 is chronically under-charged, the bike starts slowly. c) The starter needs to be in very good condition. If it is slow or dirty it can draw higher starting current, which will lead to slower starting. d) The voltage drop across the key switch needs to be low as the secondary coil is connected directly to the key. e) The lower plug wires must be in good condition. f) The alternator needs to start charging right away. Until it does, the battery voltage stays low and the coils and injectors aren’t happy. The Bat/Alt Indicator comes with a 1.3W bulb, BMW later changed it to 3W which starts the alternator faster. Usually you can switch the High Beam Indicator bulb (3W) with the Bat/Alt bulb and get the Alternator to start faster. g) Very good stick coils, wired to the battery through a relay. On later models, BMW added this relay. (I know your bike has good coils and the relay.) It would be great if you posted this body of this email and the first two charts in the spreadsheet. Regards, Roger" And charts: Chart 1: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B75jn96uBbksdi1VVWM3eVk2b2M/view?usp=sharing Chart 2: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B75jn96uBbksSm5GU3p1T0c0TlE/view?usp=sharing Link to comment
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