Question for the Brains Trust: Pro Shifter-what am I doing wrong?

[John]

Hi all,

I've just taken delivery of my new 15 RT (Australia, with all the gear). On the ride home I think I couldn't get the pro shifter to work. I downloaded a copy of the rider manual before delivery to get a handle on the bike and the pro shift.

 

Tell me if I'm doing this wrong: i accelerate away in any gear, hold steady throttle and upshift the gear lever (like normal but without the clutch) and she magically changes gear? Is that correct?

 

I tried this on the ride home, and nothing. It would do a clutchless shift up, but only if I backed off the throttle momentarily, completed the shift and rolled on the throttle (like you can do on Japanese bikes with constant mesh gearboxes).

 

On the downshift, I close the throttle and attempt to downshift, but the lever won't move.

 

How much force should I need on the lever? I thought "the same as a normal shift" and didn't want to use any higher force for fear of causing damage.

 

Any words of wisdom would be appreciated

 

Thanks.

 

[Clievma]

Hi John,

I would say it needs a quick "stab" with your shifting foot about twice the pressure of a normal shift. On up shifts I think it works smother above 5k rpm holding steady throttle. On down shifts 3k or below as you come down the box but throttle must be closed.

It requires some experimentation to get the constant smooth changes but once you get the hang of it I think it's a great addition to the bike - much more than the filmic I first thought.

Have fun.

Mike

[John]

Thanks Mike.

 

I had to set off on a work trip almost immediately, so it only has about 12km on it I will have to put a few k's on it before I can hit 5000rpm, though it seems to want to rev compared to my previous '09.

 

I have to go pick up the new top box on Monday so I'll have a crack at it then.

[TJRL]

I did not try out the shift assist until I had done about 600 miles of running in as it just did not seem right to me!

 

However when I did, it work well but took some getting used to. You must read the manual pages 93/94 and 101/102, where BMW explain how it works and should be used. In particular do not close the throttle on the downshifts!

 

Good luck with it, I now have about 2k miles on the bike at when I want to join a motorway find this feature ace, just hold the throttle full open and shift, shift, shift, shift, top!

[strataj]

However when I did, it work well but took some getting used to. You must read the manual pages 93/94 and 101/102, where BMW explain how it works and should be used. In particular do not close the throttle on the downshifts!

 

 

In the USA Manual on page 97. It says to close the throttle on downshifts. I agree with the manual,it works best. Follow the manual for up and downshifts, I'm very happy with the results.

 

Jay

 

 

[StuGotz]

What would you do on a bike WITHOUT gear shift pro? Would you open throttle in downshifts? You'd blip throttle to match rpm's... Do NOT open throttle on downshifts. The trans will clunk if you do that. Briefly close throttle, downshift, resume throttle if acceleration needed.

 

It will take practice. Once you get used to it, it's the real deal.

 

It IS better on the S1000.

 

MB.

[mneblett]

In particular do not close the throttle on the downshifts!

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! -- the throttle *must* be closed to smoothly downshift, so the computer can control the re-matching that makes it smooth. The difference in smoothness between closed-throttle downshifts and any throttle-off-the-stop-downshifting is night/day.

 

No advice on upshifting smoothness from me. 4-5 and 5-6 are usually pretty smooth, but 1-2, 2-3, and about 1/2 the time 3-4 are rough. I've tried different throttle control and acceleration/steady throttle scenarios, and still haven't figured it out. I suspect the issue is that while the computer can control raising the engine speed for rev matching on downshifts, it has no way to instantly lower engine speed to rev match on upshifts. If that is correct, then high rpm, high acceleration is the only time the quick shifter is really useful for upshifts (just like a race bike's quick shifter).

[BRD]

Anybody hear anything on software update 0023100000 for the GSAP? no response as yet from my dealer.

[Skywagon]

John what you described sounds right. Thats how it works on mine. I don't upshift with it until 3rd as raises front wheel and I don't like that....you don't have to be wide open throttle, just accelerating at a good clip. Mine actually shifts with the same pressure as if I were using the clutch..no extra pressure required and it is smooth as it can be.

 

Stupid question...Are you sure you have it? Not all the new RT's actually come with it. If your positive you have it, I would ask dealer to check it out as doesnt' sound right.

 

One other thing you must let go of pressure on the shifter from prior shift. If you upshift and just hold it without realeasing it, it won't shift.

[John]

Thanks everyone.

Skywagon (as in Cessna?), yes mine is an Australian model (comes with everything except foglights and topbox. I did read the manual again, and took a look to see if the switch(?) and wiring is on the shifter (yep).

 

I was loath to try and force the lever any more than a normal shift for fear of damaging something. I chatted with the sales guy and he said he'll take it for a lap on Monday and investigate when I go to collect my top box.

 

We'll see what happens then, I guess.

 

[TJRL]

In particular do not close the throttle on the downshifts!

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! -- the throttle *must* be closed to smoothly downshift, so the computer can control the re-matching that makes it smooth. The difference in smoothness between closed-throttle downshifts and any throttle-off-the-stop-downshifting is night/day.

 

Well just to quote my source: BMW Rider's Manual 01 41 8 557 801 2104 2nd edition pages 101/102:-

 

"When shifting gears with the shift assistant, the rider has to keep the load state (throttle twistgrip position) constant before and during the gearshift". This is exactly from the rider manual supplied with my bike including the bit in brackets. I believe the part "...throttle twistgrip position) constant before and during the gearshift" indicates that I was not "Wrong, Wrong!, Wrong!".

 

Anyway I have found this works really well on my Dec 2014 built UK model bike, YMMV.

[mneblett]

Well just to quote my source: BMW Rider's Manual 01 41 8 557 801 2104 2nd edition pages 101/102:-

 

"When shifting gears with the shift assistant, the rider has to keep the load state (throttle twistgrip position) constant before and during the gearshift". This is exactly from the rider manual supplied with my bike including the bit in brackets. I believe the part "...throttle twistgrip position) constant before and during the gearshift" indicates that I was not "Wrong, Wrong!, Wrong!".

 

That applies for the upshift. Throttle closed for the downshift or it won't blip the throttle correctly.

[TJRL]

Well just to quote my source: BMW Rider's Manual 01 41 8 557 801 2104 2nd edition pages 101/102:-

 

"When shifting gears with the shift assistant, the rider has to keep the load state (throttle twistgrip position) constant before and during the gearshift". This is exactly from the rider manual supplied with my bike including the bit in brackets. I believe the part "...throttle twistgrip position) constant before and during the gearshift" indicates that I was not "Wrong, Wrong!, Wrong!".

 

That applies for the upshift. Throttle closed for the downshift or it won't blip the throttle correctly.

 

Am I the only one who reads a manual? Really I am not that good a typing but here goes again.

 

Page 101 - Has a description of the "Shift assistant Pro" and then a sub-section "Advantages" followed by a long paragraph (that goes over onto page 102) detailing how the system works including the part the quoted yesterday. THEN there is a "Downshifting" paragraph" followed by an "Upshifting" paragraph.

 

Here is the Downshift paragraph in full:-

"- Downshifting is assisted until maximum rpm for the target gear to be selected is reached. This prevents overreving." Then there is a graphic reminding the reader that "Maximum engine speed is 9000 min-1" before the Upshifting paragraph begins.

 

So my take on things when I read the manual before trying out Shift assistant Pro was that the general explanation bit had "the rider has to keep the load state (throttle twistgrip position) constant before and during the gearshift" applies to both up and downshifts. The bit about allowing "revs up to the maximum rpm for the target gear to be selected is reached" within the Downshifting section seems to be in accord with this interpretation of the manual.

 

But for me the clincher is - IT WORKS - exactly as the manual says "keep the throttle position constant ... until the maximum rpm for the target gear to be selected is reached".

 

[John]

Thanks everyone for your considered responses.

 

I took the bike back to the dealer today and a road test confirmed the shift pro is not working. So I'm getting that fixed at the first service.

 

Thanks again!

[BRD]

John - can you inquire with your dealer about the software update # 0023100000 for GSAP? Thanks

[Skywagon]

John...suspected it was inop as what you described as your procedure works like a charm on mine. Hopefully a minor fix.

[John]

Thanx fellas.

 

I did a search on that code and it comes up with a DME update for shift quality. I don't have any shift quality at the moment so anything is an improvement. I would have thought that being a new bike this would have already been incorporated. Nonetheless, I'll take it up with them at the first service

[BRD]

Thanks!

[hefy_jefy]

Hi,

I had a problem initially - it just seemed like I was shifting without the clutch VERY clunky. But following a tip from somewhere on this forum I cycled the Mode switch through ROAD/RAIN/DYNO and back again (make sure it actually goes into those modes) and that solved the problem. Shifting up from 2,3,4,5,6 is smooth (must keep the throttle open) downshifting is the same (must keep the throttle fully closed) 6,5,4,3, and if your canny about the speed you can get into 2.

[Bill Murray]

Hi,

I had a problem initially - it just seemed like I was shifting without the clutch VERY clunky. But following a tip from somewhere on this forum I cycled the Mode switch through ROAD/RAIN/DYNO and back again (make sure it actually goes into those modes) and that solved the problem. Shifting up from 2,3,4,5,6 is smooth (must keep the throttle open) downshifting is the same (must keep the throttle fully closed) 6,5,4,3, and if your canny about the speed you can get into 2.

 

I have also been having the rough GSAP operation in the lower gears (on my RT -- my XR GSAP operation is great). Just so I am clear on the procedure you suggested, did you cycle through the Mode switch while at a standstill (versus while riding on the road)?

[John]

Hi,

I had a problem initially - it just seemed like I was shifting without the clutch VERY clunky. But following a tip from somewhere on this forum I cycled the Mode switch through ROAD/RAIN/DYNO and back again (make sure it actually goes into those modes) and that solved the problem. Shifting up from 2,3,4,5,6 is smooth (must keep the throttle open) downshifting is the same (must keep the throttle fully closed) 6,5,4,3, and if your canny about the speed you can get into 2.

I never thought of cycling modes. So far I've only ridden in normal. Will give it a try tomorrow and report back.

[hefy_jefy]

Yes - on the move as I recall - I find that to get the mode change to occur you need to close the throttle completely for a few moments (find a quiet road!)

[MarcParnes]

Yes - on the move as I recall - I find that to get the mode change to occur you need to close the throttle completely for a few moments (find a quiet road!)

Or just pull the clutch and it'll change modes.

 

Marc

[John]

........I cycled the Mode switch through ROAD/RAIN/DYNO and back again (make sure it actually goes into those modes) and that solved the problem. Shifting up from 2,3,4,5,6 is smooth (must keep the throttle open) downshifting is the same (must keep the throttle fully closed) 6,5,4,3, and if your canny about the speed you can get into 2.

 

Update: I did exactly this today, and the shifter is working perfectly. As soon as I went to rain mode from normal, the thing started working.

 

Perhaps my bike has already had the shifter update done because it works well through all gears, including 1-2 and 2-1.

 

Thanks hefy_jefy for the heads up

[TJRL]

Glad to hear it is all sorted now, but just for clarity re:-

 

Shifting up from 2,3,4,5,6 is smooth (must keep the throttle open) downshifting is the same (must keep the throttle fully closed)

You do not need to close or change the throttle position during downshifts - as documented in the Rider Manual and earlier up in this thread!

[mneblett]

Glad to hear it is all sorted now, but just for clarity re:-

 

Shifting up from 2,3,4,5,6 is smooth (must keep the throttle open) downshifting is the same (must keep the throttle fully closed)

You do not need to close or change the throttle position during downshifts - as documented in the Rider Manual and earlier up in this thread!

You keep repeating this, but it is wrong.

 

The portion of the manual at p. 106 you are referring to is a general statement that is directed to the idea that you shouldn't be *varying* the throttle position during shifts -- not that you should hold the throttle at a steady open position during downshifts.

 

This is clear from the unambiguous statement on p. 105:

 

During deceleration and down-

shifts (throttle plate closed) the

system blips the throttle to ob-

tain the correct engine speed.

 

My experience (and others, apparently) is that the manual is correct -- throttle closed gives very smooth downshifts, and open throttle, even if just slightly cracked open, gives rougher downshifts. The p. 106 constant throttle comment just says don't move the throttle during upshifts or [out of the closed position] during downshifts.

 

Have we finally put this issue to rest?

[gordiet]

Try what hefty is saying. It works! GT

[mneblett]

Forgot to mention: the part about downshifting up to 9000 rpm does not support the throttle-open when downshifting idea -- it only says the system won't let you do a clutch-less downshift if the end result is your going over 9000 rpm in the next lower gear.

[Alfred02]

Have we finally put this issue to rest?

 

No we haven't

Mine clearly downshifts far better if I just blib the throttle from the fully closed position during downshift.

I can downshift all the way smoothly down to 1st gear.

So my experience is definitely different to yours.

[mneblett]

Ok -- I'll back on out of this until someone calls BMW AG and asks them whether their manual is correct.

[Alfred02]

Not the point Mark

It's simply not a hard and fast rule. Not black and white.

My bike works better if you just give it a blib, while on yours that is not required.

Each one has to work out what works best for them with their specific bike and their riding style.

 

[realshelby]

I don't have shift assist, so I don't miss it. My question for y'all is what happens when you stab the shifter to pull out to pass or downshift for more power on a hill. Seems like closing the throttle would defeat what you are wanting to do? I don't fully close the throttle using the clutch in those situations.

[Alfred02]

I can tell you what I am doing which works extremely well for me and is certainly faster then changing with clutch.

As I rotate the throttle down, I change down while at the same time rotating the throttle up again..hard to explain and happens fast. Get it right and it's brilliant..better then any clutch shift can be..get it wrong and it's a jerk and embarrassing LOL.

I now do 90% of my riding with shift assist, it's that good for me.

[realshelby]

Well that would certainly work once you got used to it. Sort of learning the bike and connecting to it. I don't have shift assist, not sure if I would think it necessary. But, that is what I thought about the hill holding feature!

[John]

Guys, just to clarify - when I change down I just close the throttle to idle (not past the stop as you do to cancel the cruise). It changes down beautifully. The system blips the revs as I believe it should.

 

I haven't tried it at higher RPM yet, as I have done less than 1000Km. Can't go above 5000

 

The other thing I noticed is for both up and down shifts the lever requires slightly less than normal pressure to get a gear change (since it started working properly).

[rms000]

I am wondering if the set up on your bike was not completed. After a recent software update, there is a very specific set of instructions to get the gear shift pro to work. I was totally dumbfounded after a recent service, I couldn't get it to shift gears. As I recall, you turn off, turn on engine and go through all the gears holding each on for 10 seconds. Once complete, shut off engine, restart and you should be good to go.

 

Hope this helps

[John]

Thanks rms000

 

I'll keep that in mind if it happens again. I did the "change riding modes" thing, and it worked after that. I picked mine up on the 29th June, so I don't know whether they flashed the software for the shifter or not. I'll ask them at first service....

[TJRL]

I don't have shift assist, so I don't miss it. My question for y'all is what happens when you stab the shifter to pull out to pass or downshift for more power on a hill. Seems like closing the throttle would defeat what you are wanting to do? I don't fully close the throttle using the clutch in those situations.

You are quite right closing the throttle would defeat the purpose of a downshift in such a situation. So, "as per the book" you just stab the shifter WITHOUT doing anything with the throttle (e.g. do not close it at all) then once your have dropped the gear you are free to add more throttle as required!!

[TJRL]

Ok -- I'll back on out of this until someone calls BMW AG and asks them whether their manual is correct.

I am so glad to hear this, because otherwise I would have to reply point by point to your previous emails explaining why your suppositions are not quite correct.

 

What is correct however - now that I have tried it - is that the gear-shift assist does indeed do very smooth downshifts with the throttle fully closed (although it does not have to be).

 

Seems to me BMW have designed gear-shift assist to speed up both upshifts & downshifts even if the throttle is; fully closed, blipped a bit, just left "constant" where it was, or (for upshifts) on full! - BMW have done good here!