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96 Runs fine then dies...


Torontonian

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Torontonian

R1100RT. New F.pump filter. Can hear pump power up every key switch startup.Fuel pressure gauge test says we have pressure . Now erratic non-start coughings ,low r.p.m. , or runs perfectly, then dies after 1 to 20 minutes of perfect running. Good battery,installed new hall-vane unit but no change. Advice ?

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Morning Torontonian

 

Lots of potentials here so lets see if we can narrow it down somewhat.

 

When did the problem start?

 

When the problem started did it suddenly appear or progressively get worse?

 

Anything (ANYTHING) done to the bike just before the problem started?

 

When it stalls what does the dash (RID) look like?

 

Does headlight stay on after stall?

 

Have you tried riding the bike & looking for stall with the CCP removed?

 

Have you tried riding the bike & looking for stall with o2 sensor disconnected.

 

Any other bike history you can share with us?

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DR,

 

Not first obviously, surely not the last, but hey,

THANKS.

You are certainly getting my vote.

:thumbsup:

 

You contribute so much and just had to say thanks.

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Torontonian

It's a 96 R1100RT with 140 kms. on it.It died on a long ride to Ottawa in the rain. Engine died at speed but refired up a couple times for a couple of seconds before coming to the final stop. Got a lift into Ottawa for the night ,came back to it the next day and if fired right up smoothly only to die again 5 minutes down the road. Towed to a BMW shop where we fitted a new fuel filter and Hall-vane unit .Headed off for a 25 minute HWY ride in dry weather then it died and would not restart, coughing and running roughly at idle for a few seconds. Tow back to shop where mechanic did a fuel pressure test which it passed. The fuel pump can always be heard powering up on a keyturn. The shop is very busy and mechanic is dumbfounded thinking I could have bad gas ,he was in a mood. What is a ccp ? The 96 RT has no O2 sensor I believe , maybe it's the one at the air filter ? Don't know if the headlight stays on after a stall.The dash neutral light , fuel gauge, engine temp come on with key and starter is strong. The clock is always on of course. Thinking of leaving Toronto in a rented truck to go get it. 5 hrs. each way. Sigh.

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Evening Torontonian

 

The CCP is the Motronic coding plug in the fuse box.

 

Still not enough info to tell you much.

 

Sounds like the HES (Hall Effect Sensor) but you say that was replaced.

 

My next move would be to drain the fuel tank as there might be water in there. If your fuel tank vent hose (comes out behind the R/H foot peg) hasn't been modified with the end cut at an angle, & you rode a long ways in the rain, then there is a good chance that the tank vent sucked road water into the fuel tank.

 

 

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Rocketman51

Well other places to look. The run stop switch may be getting full of water. If you have access to a clip on timing light. Check to make sure the spark is missing when it will not run. It could also be the fuel pump. You said the fuel pressure was good,put is it good when the bike stops running. You could add a fuel pressure gauge, but be very careful that you do not get ant leaks. It has to be a Spark or Fuel issue. Where are you located?

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Torontonian

Toronto is in Ontario , Canada. The bike is at Premier Cycle in our country's capital Ottawa , 5 hr. drive northeast. I took a bus home.His shop is very busy which has bought me time to decide what to do/options. Buy a new bike as wife suggests or go get it again. Trailer it home ?

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Torontonian

I filled the tank with premium Esso on way leaving town . How do I do this tank vent hose angle cut ? Fuel pump was changed to an aftermarket one 5 years back. Filter screens clean. What do I do about ccp unit in fusebox ? I can take apart and clean killswitch.

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I filled the tank with premium Esso on way leaving town . How do I do this tank vent hose angle cut ? Fuel pump was changed to an aftermarket one 5 years back. Filter screens clean. What do I do about ccp unit in fusebox ? I can take apart and clean killswitch.

 

Morning Torontonian

 

Just cut the hose to have about a 45° angle on the bottom (BMW service bulletin on this)

 

On the CCP-- just remove it to see if the bike runs better, (it's the most L/H relay looking thing in the fuse box center row)

 

On the kill switch??-- Your problem isn't the kill switch as you can hear the fuel pump run at key-on & your RID seems to be working correctly. Neither would happen if you have a bad (or water filled) kill switch.

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Torontonian

When I get back the machine ,I will disconnect this ccp unit. What does it do ? I will also purge out the now -full gas tank and look for water. Water sits lowest and below the fuel I think. How to do this properly ? Also I never touch the kill switch but moved it back and forth just to see if it made any difference ,didn't. Thanks for the help ,Peter.

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Torontonian

Having looked at the manual back home here , I realize we may have installed the fuel filter backwards with the arrow now pointing the other direction. Does it matter much ? Still thinking water in fuel issue.

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Morning Torontonian

 

 

It kind of boils down to filter construction. Without cutting your filter open to see the filter inner construction it's difficulty to say how much difference it makes.

 

Installing the filter backwards usually doesn't hinder fuel flow but can reduce the filter's ability to stop & hold debris.

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Torontonian

Heading off with truck. BMW mechanic baffled. I will clean up all grounds and connectors when we dump the bike back here in Toronto.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Torontonian

P.O.S back home. Fuel pump powers up good. Cleaned contacts battery good. P.O.S. runs great for 10 mins. until just over proper operating temp. then sudden die. No restart until cold. Fuel filters new. Pressure good at pulled injectors. Replaced motronic no difference , replaced coil no difference, maybe the temp. gauge shuts it down ?

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P.O.S back home. Fuel pump powers up good. Cleaned contacts battery good. P.O.S. runs great for 10 mins. until just over proper operating temp. then sudden die. No restart until cold. Fuel filters new. Pressure good at pulled injectors. Replaced motronic no difference , replaced coil no difference, maybe the temp. gauge shuts it down ?

 

Afternoon Torontonian

 

Not the temp gauge but possibly the oil temp sender unit. Fuel injection bases a LOT of it's fueling calculations on engine temperature & that comes from the oil temp sensor.

 

You need to stop throwing parts at it & do some real time testing/evaluating to find WHAT ACTUALLY QUITS & stalls the engine.

 

Like-- does coil stay power up through the stall, do you have proper fuel pressure (fuel return) though the stall, does Motronic stay powered up through the stall, is oil temp sensor output correct, etc.

 

Something is causing the engine quit & you have to monitor all the possibilities in order to find the reason.

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
Torontonian

So pulled oil temp sensor as suggested and it was dry.No oil dripped out as manual suggests catchpan for leakages. It has a brass plunger that sits in the oil path near thermostat near radiator ,so next I will try to check the thermostat for stickings,how to pull it apart from housing,manual does not go there. Just my next step as BMW gave up said buy the new model.

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John Ranalletta
Good battery
By what measure. My '74 Ducati failed completely, then, would start and run for short time. The battery would/could start the engine, but would not accept charge. If you simply checked battery voltage as I did to find it in the normal range, that doesn't mean the battery is "good".

 

Check voltage at ignition off, then again with ignition on. Mine showed drop of ca. 10v. First thought of ground leak, but, no. Bad battery.

Edited by John Ranalletta
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  • 3 weeks later...

I will pull the new H-V- sensor unit and check the locator round plate for slippages as it has to be glued into place. What a P.O.S.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Mechanic said it failed a Fuel pressure test ,the second time test. First was good. Maybe that aftermarket pump sold by Boneyard ? Also it has the charcoal canister , Cal. model.But it dies at any R.P.M. . I'm going to run it till failure ,then pull an injector and observe for fuel sprayage. Obviously held well away from hot exh. or motor.

Edited by Torontonian
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I will pull the new H-V- sensor unit and check the locator round plate for slippages as it has to be glued into place. What a P.O.S.

 

Afternoon Torontonian

 

It doesn't HAVE to glued in place to work as there is an anti-rotation tab on the cup that goes into the crank slot. If that tab isn't crushed or damaged then the cup can't slip.

 

As long as you can get it together without having the cup fall out so you crush the locator tab then it will work just fine (forever).

 

The gluing cup-to-pulley info is more for ease of assembly than slipping.

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Mechanic said it failed a Fuel pressure test ,the second time test. First was good. Maybe that aftermarket pump sold by Boneyard ? Also it has the charcoal canister , Cal. model.But it dies at any R.P.M. . I'm going to run it till failure ,then pull an injector and observe for fuel sprayage. Obviously held well away from hot exh. or motor.

 

Afternoon Torontonian

 

Or just put a piece of clear hose in the fuel RETURN line, then run it until it quits. If you are getting FUEL RETURN FUEL FLOW then it has enough pressure & flow to run the bike.

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My 96 RT had a problem that after heating up to two bars on the RID it would cut out. Problem was a resistor faulty in the Motronic. Shop quote $2000 - Ebay $400 - Electronic genius mate 50c.

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  • 2 weeks later...
My 96 RT had a problem that after heating up to two bars on the RID it would cut out. Problem was a resistor faulty in the Motronic. Shop quote $2000 - Ebay $400 - Electronic genius mate 50c.

 

So how did you/they arrive at that motronic conclusion? i.e. how do I test mine? Problem cleared up completely?

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My 96 RT had a problem that after heating up to two bars on the RID it would cut out. Problem was a resistor faulty in the Motronic. Shop quote $2000 - Ebay $400 - Electronic genius mate 50c.

 

So how did you/they arrive at that motronic conclusion? i.e. how do I test mine? Problem cleared up completely?

 

What symptoms do you have?

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  • 1 year later...

TT,

 

So do I understand properly ... this problem persists a year and a half later, and 2 BMW shops have not able to locate the trouble ... ?

 

.

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Yes. One shop (Ottawa)too busy to deal with it , and the dealership shop here in Toronto said that's too old , let us show you the new models. I now have a referral to Chuck Stryker's garage for "older" models , but he does not work in winter as the garage is unheated. Sigh.

 

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Regarding this thread and the other thread that Eric referred to a few posts back - I had a similar issue with my high mileage R1100RT.

 

A few times during rides the motor would just quit while riding; sometimes it would restart immediately just from the transmission turning the motor. Once or twice, I had to pull over and hit the starter. Finally last year, it would not restart at a gas stop. Once cool, it started but died again after only 1/4 mile. I replaced the coil, and it has run nearly 9 months and about 12,000 miles.

 

Another local rider with a 96 RT had similar issues, and a replacement coil got him going also.

 

Torontonian - this is a relatively cheap, quick and easy to install repair. There are usually a bunch of the Oilhead coils on eBay.

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Thanks. We substituted a similar HD coil as a test , and it did the same die after 5 mins. An RT buddy actually pulled his Motronic for me , same year ,(What a bud) , we did a substitution test and it died suddenly after 7 mins. again. I have replaced fuel pump and filter ,same story. New Odyssey battery. New Hall -vane. I can't do much more in a Canadian winter. I've purchased a MK 111 Norton since we last talked and am involved with that , indoors. Peter.

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All yes. Lets talk relays. 1996 so which is fuel pump relay for this model. Sketchy information. The 4 small simple electromagnet black ones I opened up and look good. The yellow one is full of electronics and smelled. The big black one too.Which do I replace ?

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All yes. Lets talk relays. 1996 so which is fuel pump relay for this model. Sketchy information. The 4 small simple electromagnet black ones I opened up and look good. The yellow one is full of electronics and smelled. The big black one too.Which do I replace ?

 

Afternoon Torontonian

 

Front row in fuse box, first relay to the RIGHT of the center divider.

 

Before calling the relay bad make sure it has full 12v from fuse #6 & it is getting it's pull-in coil powered by 12v from kill switch & side stand switch.

 

You can monitor if the fuel pump relay is working by monitoring the voltage on the green wires at the tank vent valve (L/H side of bike mid way back) or at either fuel injector green wire.

Edited by dirtrider
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Thanks. I will tackle this in the spring. Too cold here to numb fingers with cold tools. We head off to Indonesia until then. I'll check the side stand switch and kill switch health , maybe even bypass the switches as a test.

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