2007 RT cutting off, Advice needed!!!!!

[mickeymc]

Hi,

Here is some information about the issue.

IT is a 2007RT with approx 40K miles. It is an intermittent problem so that is the first issue. Occasionally the engine will die. All the times except once it has been while coming to or almost stopped moving. Once on the interstate for a second or so. The very first time it did this was in heavy rain while stopped and I smelled an electrical odor coming from under the fairing somewhere. Only one time I noticed the smell. One time I noticed all the instruments went off. I have checked the fault codes with a GS-911. They are as follows.

 

Fault Codes Report

 

GS-911 version: 1211.5 Datapack version:1.2 Serial Number: GS40015301 Registered to: Mike McSwain

Date: 6/15/2015 Time: 3:55:37 PM

 

Motorcycle VIN: ZT10457

 

37647: CAN-bus error: No communication with ANY of the other control units

The fault is not present now.

37641: Electrical System (KL30) under-voltage

The fault is not present now.

37649: CAN-bus timeout : No communication with ABS control unit

The fault is not present now.

37650: CAN-bus error: faulty speed signal

The fault is not present now.

 

This is what I have done thus far.

Cleared faults.

Checked, tightened, cleaned, battery connection. It was not loose or dirty.

Removed all fairings and tank and visually checked for anything that looked loose or rubbing. I have not seen anything suspect. Is there anything else I should check while the tank/fairings are off.

 

Thanks for reading!

[mneblett]

Have you checked the wiring harness leading to the ignition switch? Check in particular the zip-ties -- if tied too tight at the factory they can cause breaks or shorts. You may want to free the closest zip-tie to the switch, turn on the ignition and move the harness around to see whether the bike dies.

[mickeymc]

Have you checked the wiring harness leading to the ignition switch? Check in particular the zip-ties -- if tied too tight at the factory they can cause breaks or shorts. You may want to free the closest zip-tie to the switch, turn on the ignition and move the harness around to see whether the bike dies.

 

I have looked at the wiring in that area. All the ties are original and looks OK, When I get everything back together I will try your idea about moving things around. I will place a loose tie nearest the switch. I have thought about the antenna in the switch but can't figure out why that would cause the fault codes.

[BMWED]

I have the same bike, same problem. Stalling coming to a stop, and in heavy rain. Although never noticed the electrical smell. Was told the stepper motors were going out of sync. To reset, you must shut off the ignition and turn back on to re-sync them.

Ed

[mickeymc]

I have the same bike, same problem. Stalling coming to a stop, and in heavy rain. Although never noticed the electrical smell. Was told the stepper motors were going out of sync. To reset, you must shut off the ignition and turn back on to re-sync them.

Ed

 

Thanks for the reply! That could explain why it dies going back to idle, however, I have never had to turn the ignition off to get it to start back up. One other thing I might add is sometimes the engine stalls and instruments, display stay on. A couple of times the instruments have gone off. No time have I ever had to turn the ignition off to get the bike to restart. I am usually in a panic as it it always seems to happen when in heavy traffic.

 

[Guest Kakugo]

This is a very long shot, but...

On some Honda's I've seen the same problem and it was down to one of these: faulty ECU or a loose/peeled wire in the harness going to the ECU.

I've personally seen a single failed ECU, which drove me insane because it's invariably the last thing you think about.

Wiring... now, that's another matter. That electrical smell may hint at a peeled wire somewhere.

 

The steering stock is usually the first area to warrant investigation (even my brother's GS had some electronic gremlins caused by a worn wire there), but if you've already checked, I would shift my attention to the main wiring and associated connectors going to the ECU.

[dirtrider]

Here is some information about the issue.

IT is a 2007RT with approx 40K miles. It is an intermittent problem so that is the first issue. Occasionally the engine will die. All the times except once it has been while coming to or almost stopped moving. Once on the interstate for a second or so. The very first time it did this was in heavy rain while stopped and I smelled an electrical odor coming from under the fairing somewhere. Only one time I noticed the smell. One time I noticed all the instruments went off. I have checked the fault codes with a GS-911. They are as follows.

 

 

Morning mickeymc

 

 

If it always stalls while coming to a stop, or clutch pulled-in & coasting, then that more or less points to lost steppers.

 

Lost stepper or steppers will not show in the GS-911 data as the computer command is commanding the correct counts but the steppers are not where the computer thinks that are supposed to be. (stepper pintle position has no direct feedback to the fueling computer)

 

Lost stepper stalling is very difficult to define & find as nothing shows on trapped failure data & they do reset after a key off restart.

 

About the only way to find a lost stepper stalling issue is to install a new (or known good) stepper on one side then ride the bike. If the stalling goes away then you have found the bad side. If the dropped throttle stalling continues move the new stepper to the other side & see if that stops the stalling.

 

If it keeps on stalling then you need to look elsewhere.

 

Even though at first look your problem doesn't appear to be a failing FPC (fuel pump controller), if your FPC is the original silver FPC then that should be updated to the later, less problem prone) black FPC.

 

[mickeymc]

Here is some information about the issue.

IT is a 2007RT with approx 40K miles. It is an intermittent problem so that is the first issue. Occasionally the engine will die. All the times except once it has been while coming to or almost stopped moving. Once on the interstate for a second or so. The very first time it did this was in heavy rain while stopped and I smelled an electrical odor coming from under the fairing somewhere. Only one time I noticed the smell. One time I noticed all the instruments went off. I have checked the fault codes with a GS-911. They are as follows.

 

 

Morning mickeymc

 

 

If it always stalls while coming to a stop, or clutch pulled-in & coasting, then that more or less points to lost steppers.

 

Lost stepper or steppers will not show in the GS-911 data as the computer command is commanding the correct counts but the steppers are not where the computer thinks that are supposed to be. (stepper pintle position has no direct feedback to the fueling computer)

 

Lost stepper stalling is very difficult to define & find as nothing shows on trapped failure data & they do reset after a key off restart.

 

About the only way to find a lost stepper stalling issue is to install a new (or known good) stepper on one side then ride the bike. If the stalling goes away then you have found the bad side. If the dropped throttle stalling continues move the new stepper to the other side & see if that stops the stalling.

 

If it keeps on stalling then you need to look elsewhere.

 

Even though at first look your problem doesn't appear to be a failing FPC (fuel pump controller), if your FPC is the original silver FPC then that should be updated to the later, less problem prone) black FPC.

 

Thanks for you input dirtrider. Would the fuel pump controller or stepper motors cause the instruments/display to shut off?

 

I have just recently installed a black fuel pump controller although there were no signs of corrosion etc in the area.

 

 

[dirtrider]

Would the fuel pump controller or stepper motors cause the instruments/display to shut off?

 

I have just recently installed a black fuel pump controller although there were no signs of corrosion etc in the area.

 

 

Afternoon mickeymc

 

As a rule, no, but usually when the ign switch or it's wiring causes issues you don't usually get a quick restart without turning the switch off then back on or wiggling the handlebars back & forth.

 

Anything in the kill switch circuit on the hexhead only kills off the fuel gauge & part of the dash (instruments) so if you lost the full dash readings it's probably something else than the kill switch circuit.

 

A poor battery connection could cause all dash readings to quit & sometimes you can get a re-start as the starter draw causes the bad battery connection to bridge but that probably wouldn't be repeatable time after time.

 

Next time it quits see if you have horn or turn signals as you coast over (before touching the starter button or key switch)

 

 

[mickeymc]

Would the fuel pump controller or stepper motors cause the instruments/display to shut off?

 

I have just recently installed a black fuel pump controller although there were no signs of corrosion etc in the area.

 

 

Afternoon mickeymc

 

As a rule, no, but usually when the ign switch or it's wiring causes issues you don't usually get a quick restart without turning the switch off then back on or wiggling the handlebars back & forth.

 

Anything in the kill switch circuit on the hexhead only kills off the fuel gauge & part of the dash (instruments) so if you lost the full dash readings it's probably something else than the kill switch circuit.

 

A poor battery connection could cause all dash readings to quit & sometimes you can get a re-start as the starter draw causes the bad battery connection to bridge but that probably wouldn't be repeatable time after time.

 

Next time it quits see if you have horn or turn signals as you coast over (before touching the starter button or key switch)

 

 

OK, Hopefully I will be in a situation where I can remember this!!!

 

[CWB-58]

BMWED,

I had this problem yesterday. I was coming to a stop after being on the interstate in heavy traffic 80+ MPH. The engine shut off as I was coming to a stop. The engine failed to start on two attempts. I cycled the key switch and the engine started then.

I am new to BMW motorcycles spent years- 40+ on Hondas. Can you explain the stepper motors and where they are and what they look like, also effort to replace etc.

[CWB-58]

I got explanation from another forum. Actuator is the best description, stepper is something totally different in meaning a bad description, idle actuator is what I found it to be.

[dirtrider]

Morning CWB-58

 

 

Idle actuator is a pretty generic term--

 

BMW officially calls them Idle Actuators, but there are many/many types of idle actuators with different base operating principles.

 

In the BMW 1200RT the Idle Actuators are actually stepper motors (operate as a stepper control with stepping counts) so in engineering talk we just call them for what they are--stepper motors.

[CWB-58]

LOL from my electrical engineering background a stepper motor is a whole different device but I get it. Thanks for the explanation.

[Ponch]

Aren't they called Idle Air Control on some cars?

[mig]

My 2007 has done this to me 3 times in the 4 years I have owned it. All were after being at 65+mph on the highway for a long time and then coming to a slow down. clutch in, Key OFF and ON and it starts. A little freaky when it happens and you have traffic on your ass !!

[Jim VonBaden]

Here is some information about the issue.

IT is a 2007RT with approx 40K miles. It is an intermittent problem so that is the first issue. Occasionally the engine will die. All the times except once it has been while coming to or almost stopped moving. Once on the interstate for a second or so. The very first time it did this was in heavy rain while stopped and I smelled an electrical odor coming from under the fairing somewhere. Only one time I noticed the smell. One time I noticed all the instruments went off. I have checked the fault codes with a GS-911. They are as follows.

 

 

Morning mickeymc

 

 

If it always stalls while coming to a stop, or clutch pulled-in & coasting, then that more or less points to lost steppers.

 

Lost stepper or steppers will not show in the GS-911 data as the computer command is commanding the correct counts but the steppers are not where the computer thinks that are supposed to be. (stepper pintle position has no direct feedback to the fueling computer)

 

Lost stepper stalling is very difficult to define & find as nothing shows on trapped failure data & they do reset after a key off restart.

 

About the only way to find a lost stepper stalling issue is to install a new (or known good) stepper on one side then ride the bike. If the stalling goes away then you have found the bad side. If the dropped throttle stalling continues move the new stepper to the other side & see if that stops the stalling.

 

If it keeps on stalling then you need to look elsewhere.

 

Even though at first look your problem doesn't appear to be a failing FPC (fuel pump controller), if your FPC is the original silver FPC then that should be updated to the later, less problem prone) black FPC.

 

There is a simple way to test your stepper motors, and I have cured this issue a few times like this.

 

Use real time values and check your stepper motor values. They should start out either exactly the same, or very close. But the important part is that the values both need to move, and they should be nearly the same if not exactly the same. If one value is not moving and the other is, you have a bad stepper motor on that side. It is very simple. If you are not sure, calibrate your stepper motors with an idle calibration with the GS911 and try real time values again. You have done this already, right?

 

Jim

[dirtrider]

Here is some information about the issue.

IT is a 2007RT with approx 40K miles. It is an intermittent problem so that is the first issue. Occasionally the engine will die. All the times except once it has been while coming to or almost stopped moving. Once on the interstate for a second or so. The very first time it did this was in heavy rain while stopped and I smelled an electrical odor coming from under the fairing somewhere. Only one time I noticed the smell. One time I noticed all the instruments went off. I have checked the fault codes with a GS-911. They are as follows.

 

 

Morning mickeymc

 

 

If it always stalls while coming to a stop, or clutch pulled-in & coasting, then that more or less points to lost steppers.

 

Lost stepper or steppers will not show in the GS-911 data as the computer command is commanding the correct counts but the steppers are not where the computer thinks that are supposed to be. (stepper pintle position has no direct feedback to the fueling computer)

 

Lost stepper stalling is very difficult to define & find as nothing shows on trapped failure data & they do reset after a key off restart.

 

About the only way to find a lost stepper stalling issue is to install a new (or known good) stepper on one side then ride the bike. If the stalling goes away then you have found the bad side. If the dropped throttle stalling continues move the new stepper to the other side & see if that stops the stalling.

 

If it keeps on stalling then you need to look elsewhere.

 

Even though at first look your problem doesn't appear to be a failing FPC (fuel pump controller), if your FPC is the original silver FPC then that should be updated to the later, less problem prone) black FPC.

 

There is a simple way to test your stepper motors, and I have cured this issue a few times like this.

 

Use real time values and check your stepper motor values. They should start out either exactly the same, or very close. But the important part is that the values both need to move, and they should be nearly the same if not exactly the same. If one value is not moving and the other is, you have a bad stepper motor on that side. It is very simple. If you are not sure, calibrate your stepper motors with an idle calibration with the GS911 and try real time values again. You have done this already, right?

 

 

Morning Jim

 

This procedure can easily lie to you as there is NO direct feedback of stepper position count to stepper pintle position. (the computer only knows where they are NOW by knowing where they were last count). You can watch the commanded counts move but that is no guarantee the stepper pintles are moving & keeping up with the (commanded) move counts)

 

What you are seeing is COMMANDED counts not actual stepper pintle position. (that's what happens when they get lost--commanded counts doesn't match actual pintle position)

 

Also, the steppers automatically re-calibrate every time you key-up (the GS-911 just allows you to re-calibrate without turning the engine off (handy feature but no real gain from doing a GS-911 stepper calibration)

[Jim VonBaden]

Here is some information about the issue.

IT is a 2007RT with approx 40K miles. It is an intermittent problem so that is the first issue. Occasionally the engine will die. All the times except once it has been while coming to or almost stopped moving. Once on the interstate for a second or so. The very first time it did this was in heavy rain while stopped and I smelled an electrical odor coming from under the fairing somewhere. Only one time I noticed the smell. One time I noticed all the instruments went off. I have checked the fault codes with a GS-911. They are as follows.

 

 

Morning mickeymc

 

 

If it always stalls while coming to a stop, or clutch pulled-in & coasting, then that more or less points to lost steppers.

 

Lost stepper or steppers will not show in the GS-911 data as the computer command is commanding the correct counts but the steppers are not where the computer thinks that are supposed to be. (stepper pintle position has no direct feedback to the fueling computer)

 

Lost stepper stalling is very difficult to define & find as nothing shows on trapped failure data & they do reset after a key off restart.

 

About the only way to find a lost stepper stalling issue is to install a new (or known good) stepper on one side then ride the bike. If the stalling goes away then you have found the bad side. If the dropped throttle stalling continues move the new stepper to the other side & see if that stops the stalling.

 

If it keeps on stalling then you need to look elsewhere.

 

Even though at first look your problem doesn't appear to be a failing FPC (fuel pump controller), if your FPC is the original silver FPC then that should be updated to the later, less problem prone) black FPC.

 

There is a simple way to test your stepper motors, and I have cured this issue a few times like this.

 

Use real time values and check your stepper motor values. They should start out either exactly the same, or very close. But the important part is that the values both need to move, and they should be nearly the same if not exactly the same. If one value is not moving and the other is, you have a bad stepper motor on that side. It is very simple. If you are not sure, calibrate your stepper motors with an idle calibration with the GS911 and try real time values again. You have done this already, right?

 

 

Morning Jim

 

This procedure can easily lie to you as there is NO direct feedback of stepper position count to stepper pintle position. (the computer only knows where they are NOW by knowing where they were last count). You can watch the commanded counts move but that is no guarantee the stepper pintles are moving & keeping up with the (commanded) move counts)

 

What you are seeing is COMMANDED counts not actual stepper pintle position. (that's what happens when they get lost--commanded counts doesn't match actual pintle position)

 

Also, the steppers automatically re-calibrate every time you key-up (the GS-911 just allows you to re-calibrate without turning the engine off (handy feature but no real gain from doing a GS-911 stepper calibration)

 

Sorry, I disagree. I have tested this on a bike with a bad stepper motor, and after replacement.

 

Jim

[dirtrider]

Morning Jim

 

How do you watch the stepper pintle move to match the commanded counts? With no direct (present position) feedback between stepper pintle & fueling computer I sure would like to know what you are looking at (what you tested).

 

Also BIG difference between a bad (non operational) stepper & a working stepper that gets lost during operation.