Removing the ABS package - R1100RT

[foundationapps]

Hi folks, I'm new to posting here, but have learned tons about my 1100RT from the generous posting here. Thanks for sharing knowledge.

 

First, BMW, been riding since I was a kid (now ancient 56). I'll do all I can do on my own 1100 in the learning process of this BMW bike.

 

To my question. I am going to remove the ABS package from the bike. I saved 500 buying the machine because the ABS was faulty. Pulled the relay, bulb and everything I could figure to keep the dash lights off.

 

Next phase is to physically remove the linked lines and heavy ABS unit from the frame, reducing weight and top end mass a ton.

 

Chris Harris's info online seems to be solid gold. He has a great video on rewiring the relays once you remove the ABS package. The bike in that vid is the 1150 RT.

 

Is the rewiring the same for the 1100 RT as it is for the 1150 RT? More to follow. It's quite the learning curve. Great machine.

[AndyS]

Welcome to the group foundationapps.

The 1100 and the 1150 are different beasts.

The first question is why do you want to remove such a good bit of kit.

The ABS on the 1100 is reliable and with the age of the bike, secondhand parts are readily available at fair prices.

The iABS fitted to the 1150 can be an unreliable nightmare and that is why it is removed....not so on the 1100.

Can we help you fix the issue?

[foundationapps]

Thank you, I like this place more each time I visit.

 

Here's my issue. Bought the bike with the ABS light flashing and saved 400.00 (from what I'm told by the dealer) off the purchase price because they wouldn't have to fix it. I was told the ABS sensor was out.

 

I like simplicity. So in my non-ABS thinking, I figure I'll just direct link the front brakes to that master and the rear brake to that master and removed the lines and ABS package. Granted, I've never experienced ABS, but I've also never experienced a situation where ABS might have saved me. But how would I know right?

 

Here's my own personal argument for gutting the ABS.

 

1. On the road, ABS failure = unrepairable situation for me.

2. Reduced operating / maintenance cost.

3. Increased overall reliability of machine.

4. Less POL (Points of Leak), to loose critically needed brake fluid.

 

Con: The only con I could figure is losing brake lights unless I can determine how to rewire the machine Around the ABS package so that I have brake lights (which I don't have right now).

 

I'm open of course to more experienced hands when it comes to the reliability. I was of the opinion that all early BMW ABS were unreliable, not just the 1150. I stand corrected.

[smiller]

There have been many variations on BMW's ABS systems over the years with varying amounts of reliability issues, but the ABS system on the R1100 bikes has been very solid. There is no real difference in routine maintenance costs since there is no special bleeding procedure, leaking has been a complete non-issue, and failure on the road presents no real problem because (unlike some of the more complex BMW ABS variants) failure of the R1100 ABS system doesn't affect normal braking at all. There are a lot of good reasons to have ABS on a bike and with the R1100 there is really no good reason not to have it.

 

That said, removing the ABS system is fairly simple on these bikes, just plumb the brake lines around the modulator and that's pretty much it. But I'd at least look into repairing it, the used parts market for the 1100 bikes is vast and relatively inexpensive. There are several online tutorials that will guide you through diagnosis, and there are even simple diagnostics built into the unit (trouble codes read by shorting the appropriate contacts on a connector.) You could have nothing more complicated than a misadjusted speed sensor or broken wire.

 

Last note, whether you retain the ABS or not it's a good idea to replace the OEM rubber brake lines with some Teflon SS-braided replacements. The OEM lines on the older R1100s have a habit of aging-out and leaking, and even if not experiencing outright failure they will be soft and braking performance will be greatly increased with braided lines.

[foundationapps]

Good argument for keeping the ABS. It's all sitting there intact. Here's what the bike was doing as I bought it, and driving it for 400 miles or so until I figured out which blue fuze / relay to pull to disable the light. I'm replacing the rubber lines with S/S lines I have purchased already. Galfer, seem like nice units.

 

1. Flashing yellow ABS light on dash.

2. Unable to determine if the ABS was actually not functioning.

 

IF, I removed the entire ABS package, is there a rewire procedure so that brake lights will work?

 

Can you advise a diagnostic procedure to figure this out?

[greiffster]

Granted, I've never experienced ABS, but I've also never experienced a situation where ABS might have saved me. But how would I know right?

 

Con: The only con I could figure is losing brake lights unless I can determine how to rewire the machine Around the ABS package so that I have brake lights (which I don't have right now).

 

 

That's a pretty big Con. But, I think you can rework the brake lights to fix that.

 

So, it sounds like maybe you don't believe or get the benefits of the ABS. Why would you, you've never been in the situation. Me neither, and I hope I never am. Read this article, particularly the impressions section at the bottom (of the four trainers).

 

The ABS on the 1100RT is a lot more reasonable to get fixed (as I am lead to believe) than the 1150RT (like mine). About the only way to fix the 1150 is to get a new servo pump and they're $2K. So it's an easier justification to just remove the whole thing.

 

I guess it comes down to whether or not you actually believe the ABS can/will stop the bike shorter and safer than without it. Or at least in most situations. I believe it can. What's it worth to you. That's your Con.

[smiller]

Can you advise a diagnostic procedure to figure this out?

Google is your friend, here is the very first hit:

 

http://www.largiader.com/abs/absfault.html

 

 

Also, read starting on page 71 of this document (which also has a lot of info in general on the R1100):

 

http://www.ibmwr.org/r-tech/oilheads/R11Manual/Oilhead_Maintenance_2-25-02.pdf

 

[foundationapps]

Excellent bit of information. I'm creating a binder (leftover clipboard mentality from military days) for rapid accessing this stuff in the future.

 

I believe the ABS to be superior in handling and functioning faster than the human reaction time and assessment. With that said, and being something of a doomie for planning purposes, I like to narrow down all working things to their simplest form. Going to do all these suggested things, and I might still eliminate the weight and function. Plus there is another space to put needed spare parts and more tools.

 

 

[dirtrider]

Clip--

 

IF, I removed the entire ABS package, is there a rewire procedure so that brake lights will work?

 

Afternoon foundationapps

 

NOT NEEDED ON THE 1100 ABS-2 system, you are comparing apples to oranges -- on your 1100 the brake lights don't go through the ABS controller.

 

Just remove the ABS controller & re-plumb the brake lines & remove the ABS relay (that is ALL you have to do on the 1100--(the 1150 I-ABS system is much different)

[Jim Moore]

I think you're confusing the ABS on the 1150 with the ABS on the 1100. The ABS on the 1150 has some serious issues, especially if it fails. Yours does not. If yours was to fail in the middle of nowhere you could put a piece of tape over the lights and you would never know the difference. With the 1150 you end up with what is called "residual braking," which is to say little or none.

 

With that in mind, your bike is 15-ish years old. If your brake lines are original, it wouldn't be a bad idea to replace them. The simplest thing to do would be to buy a set of standard lines and run them though the ABS controller, even though it's not working. If you simply cannot tolerate the extra ten pounds on the bike you could scrap the ABS controller.. Like Dirtrider said, all you need to do is toss the controller and replumb the lines. I'd call Tom Cutter at the Rubber Chicken Racing Garage. He's a Spiegler dealer and a long-time BMW mech. He can get you the right parts.

[foundationapps]

Thanks all for the guidance on that ABS system. Having been around Beemers for just a short while, this 1100RT seems to be quite a great machine. I've had faster and better handling (Ducati) bikes, but nothing makes me smile more when riding foul weather on this bike.

 

It's a police model, former highway patrol bike. Good thing about that is it's only a SINGLE seat, sidesteps the question from back seaters if they can get a ride. NOT POSSIBLE. No plans to change it.

 

Much appreciate the time.

[ogjimbob]

err am I the only one who thinks that the OP has not got the older ABS on his bike? the only yellow light on the R1100RT with the older ABS is the low fuel light! first confirm the model?

[foundationapps]

I'll confirm and post a pic of the setup.

[Trullion]

Yes, I had wondered about the warning light, but then thought that maybe the US models/Police spec ones are different to the UK ones. My (RS) has two red warning lights for the ABS.

 

FWIW I'd replace the hoses with braided ones and fix the ABS. If it malfunctions the worse that it likely to happen is that the warning lights flash, but BMW provided a switch to address this, at least for a while (you have to press it when the lights start flashing again). There is a wealth of info on this forum on how to establish which element of the ABS system is faulty - not a difficult job. So, if it were me, I'd replace the hoses asap then do the diagnostics and source any replacement parts (not expensive) while enjoying riding the bike in the meantime - tape over the idiot lights if you want.

 

As has been said, the ABS II on these bikes is reliable (if slow to kick in) and is worth keeping if it malfunctions, unlike the iABS that followed it - just my opinion, though by no means unique.

[Drakas]

I have a '99 R1100RTP and the ABS lights flash red. There are two of them just to the right of, and combined are the same size as, the neutral light.

 

On my K75 I pulled the computer and modulators, installed SS lines and called it done. I'm inclined to try to fix the ABS on my RTP. Apparently it hasn't worked for a while, the light is painted over, and the PO I bought from said it was like that when he bought it. The ABS doesn't work, I've slid the rear on gravel before.

[foundationapps]

ABS out. Aa dirtrider and a couple other fellas said, replumb the brake likes, C. Harris's guidance on using the existing tab to reconnect the master cylinder lines to the lower lines is spot on. Rear cylinder. Make sure you have a male to male adapter to jack rabbit between the pad unit and the brake line for the NON-ABS S/S line I bought, as it is a female end adapter on the master end. Easy enough.

 

Wires off the right side, Massive cable connector on the left side off, lines out. Power to the system. All looks good AND the brakes have solid compression and feel. I like it.

 

What can I say, i'm a simplicity nut.

[MingOnMongo]

BTW, I know this is an old thread, but anyone know the exact weight saving by removing the ABS unit on the early 1100RT's? Can't locate the weight of the ABS module anywhere beyond an estimate of ~20+ lbs.

[Dave P]

Foundation- Is there a real problem with your ABS system? My system has been quite reliable, usually if my battery voltage is a little bit low my dash lights flash alternatively. DR helped me reset my system about a month ago, discovered my dashboard ABS switch was broken. 15$ on ebay and i was back on the road. Easy Peasy. Maybe I missed something in your write up. Dave

[szurszewski]

1 hour ago, Dave P said:

Foundation- Is there a real problem with your ABS system? My system has been quite reliable, usually if my battery voltage is a little bit low my dash lights flash alternatively. DR helped me reset my system about a month ago, discovered my dashboard ABS switch was broken. 15$ on ebay and i was back on the road. Easy Peasy. Maybe I missed something in your write up. Dave

Be interesting to see if he replies since this topic was last active in 2015. 

[szurszewski]

2 hours ago, MingOnMongo said:

BTW, I know this is an old thread, but anyone know the exact weight saving by removing the ABS unit on the early 1100RT's? Can't locate the weight of the ABS module anywhere beyond an estimate of ~20+ lbs.

I have an iABS unit here with the circuit/brain removed, and it weighs about eight pounds. It is larger than the ABSII unit on the 1100RT as it has the servo motors to provide powered braking. I have also see the 20lb number and I don’t think that’s accurate. Assuming you removed the full iABS system (servo unit with controller and the “extra” hard lines between) even figuring some weight loss for a smaller volume of fluid I think you’d remove about ten pounds. On the earlier ABSII system I think maybe half that. 
 

Also, while the weight is not low, it’s not super high either - it’s below the gas

tank, for example, and about level with most batteries. Switching to a lithium battery would likely get you about the same handling benefit - so I suppose doing both (abs removal and a lithium battery) would be a good idea if that’s what you’re after. 

[MingOnMongo]

Interesting about the true ABS weight, thx, and yeah, always thought that 20 lb+ figure sounded kinda 'chunky' for an alloy box and some electrics. But even still losing the 8 lb ABS, plus saving another 8-9 lbs with a LI battery, and if a full tank weighs about 40+ lbs, then filling only two thirds saves another 14 lbs, plus maybe who-knows-how-much with an aftermarket exhaust... hey, I might even knock off nearly 50 lbs (about the weight of a typical bag of cement, and that ain't light). And certainly closer to my old airhead RT which weighs about a hundred pounds less and always feels much more 'svelte'.

 

Or to paraphrase the late, great Everett Dirksen, "A few here, a few there, pretty soon, you're talking real money!" 

[dirtrider]

5 hours ago, MingOnMongo said:

Interesting about the true ABS weight, thx, and yeah, always thought that 20 lb+ figure sounded kinda 'chunky' for an alloy box and some electrics. But even still losing the 8 lb ABS, plus saving another 8-9 lbs with a LI battery, and if a full tank weighs about 40+ lbs, then filling only two thirds saves another 14 lbs, plus maybe who-knows-how-much with an aftermarket exhaust... hey, I might even knock off nearly 50 lbs (about the weight of a typical bag of cement, and that ain't light). And certainly closer to my old airhead RT which weighs about a hundred pounds less and always feels much more 'svelte'.

 

Or to paraphrase the late, great Everett Dirksen, "A few here, a few there, pretty soon, you're talking real money!" 

Morning  MingOnMongo

 

According to BMW the 1100rt hydro unit (ABS module)  weighs 11.36 pounds (empty) so figure with the longer lines, small amount of fluid,  mounting bracket, ABS relay, etc puts you around a 12 lb (give or take) weight savings.   

[MingOnMongo]

Hey, another 3-4 lbs... Grazie!

[HEDLEY LE MARR]

Hi Guys, I'm just going through the motions to get rid of my ABS on 1996 R1100RS. Thanks for all the info. I'm going to remove the unit and insulate the connector and the pump relay connections etc. and ditch the ABS relay.

Just did the plumbing, all braided stainless, the old lines were holding pressure. New lines feel great. Trying to get it registered so I can do some work on the other bikes.

[victibo]

Hi! I had a lot of broblems with my brake system on my r1100r 1996 lately. I figured that my abs system was failing/obstructed. I ordered new brake lines and I am wondering where I could find the right piece to connect bypass abs on the front lanes. Also, I was wondering what blog/video Fondation was referring to when talking about " C.Harris". I hope everything will go as planed!

 

On 5/29/2015 at 4:49 PM, foundationapps said:

C. Harris

 

[dirtrider]

33 minutes ago, victibo said:

Hi! I had a lot of broblems with my brake system on my r1100r 1996 lately. I figured that my abs system was failing/obstructed. I ordered new brake lines and I am wondering where I could find the right piece to connect bypass abs on the front lanes. Also, I was wondering what blog/video Fondation was referring to when talking about " C.Harris". I hope everything will go as planed!

 

 

Afternoon   victibo

 

You should already have the proper connector, just remove your present Y block up front then file or grind the locating tab off of it, then flip it around until it works for your line routing   (one set of ports  on that Y block have the proper thread size & proper pass-through to work as a good functioning line in & line out connector.   

 

You can Google Chris but be careful in using some of his info as he doesn't always get it right. 

[victibo]

Wow so clever! Thanks a lot! I will let you know who if everything goes as planed.

 

[victibo]

Hi! I replaced my existing brake lines with braided ones (Looking so good!). I also rebuilt my two front and back calliper. Everything went well on the back when rerouting lines from mastercylinder directly to calliper. I have no leak and great pressure. On the front, It's like if the master cylinder was pumping air instead of the fluid inside the fluid reservoir. The master have been changed not long ago. I dont know what to do. Does someone have an insight about my problem? Thanks a lot!

 

[dirtrider]

On 5/15/2015 at 12:38 PM, foundationapps said:

Is the rewiring the same for the 1100 RT as it is for the 1150 RT? More to follow. It's quite the learning curve. Great machine.

Morning victibo

 

No, much different but easier as the brake & tail lights don't through the ABS module. So you don't need to do the brake light relay thing.

[victibo]

2 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Morning victibo

 

No, much different but easier as the brake & tail lights don't through the ABS module. So you don't need to do the brake light relay thing.

Hi Dirtrider! Always there to help  

So you don't know what is the problem with my master cylinder? 

[dirtrider]

22 hours ago, victibo said:

Hi Dirtrider! Always there to help  

So you don't know what is the problem with my master cylinder? 

Morning   victibo

 

That's what happens when a different problem gets tacked onto someone else's thread, the replies can easily get intermixed.

 

On  your problem (probably should start your own thread on your problem) it sounds a bit like there is still air in the master cylinder. Did you FIRST bleed the air out of the master cylinder before bleeding the entire brake system?