drive shaft

[mig]

good day group:

haven't been on the forum in a while and couldn't find anything using the search, but seems that my drive shaft on my 2007 Rt1200R is beginning to fail. Definite clucking noise coming out from the back as i roll along. Had the pumpkin bearing rebuilt about 6 months ago, bike has about 80K now. I intend to un-couple the rear end and look good at the shaft and FD this weekend, Pushing the boot back I can see small metal particles, so something is wearing. but in the mean time I was wondering if there had been any new developments in removing the shaft. i.e. , being able to pull it out or not. I would try an remove it myself if its simple enough, otherwise I guess $$$

thanks

Miguel

[Bernie]

If you see metal bits, stop riding. When it explodes, it usually also destroys the swing arm.

On the RT you have to remove the swing arm to remove the drive shaft. It isn't to difficult. When you get it apart, you may want to also change the swing armany bearings.

80,000 miles is about right for the live expectancy of the drive shafts.

 

[dirtrider]

Morning Miguel

 

Your 2007 1200RT has the early drive shaft (there was a drive shaft change in very early 2008)

 

(as mentioned)- On your 1200RT you need to remove the swing arm to get the shaft out. As a rule on the GS/GSA-A the shaft will come out the rear without removing the swing arm.

 

If your shaft isn't torn up you can probably get the "U" joints replaced if you can find a shop in your area to do it.

 

 

[aggieengineer]

Might be worth a call to these businesses for a possible repair:

 

www.machineservice.com

 

www.brunos.us

[eddd]

If you see metal bits, stop riding. When it explodes, it usually also destroys the swing arm...

 

 

Listen to Bernie! A drive shaft u-joint will last for tens of thousands of miles, but once they start to go the complete destruction is remarkably fast.

[mig]

ok guys thanks.

i will inspect this saturday, I have stopped riding the bike, sadly it is my daily commuter.

Anyone know where to get a replacement u-joint, or a number to use. I might have a local machine shop here in the north bay San Francisco area

[dirtrider]

Morning Mig

 

 

That is kind of an odd sized "U" joint & not easily sourced from the local auto parts supply houses.

 

I put one in for a friend last fall & I had to source the joint from a specialized application source. (my source doesn't sell to the public though)

 

Those joints ARE available as there are shops that put them in daily so there must be a common P/N somewhere. The one I installed had a grease fitting so those seem to be available also.

 

[mneblett]

Slight thread highjack -- but related, if you don't mind.

 

How "heavy" is the clunking noise?

 

The reason I ask is I've never experienced a driveshaft failure so I don't know how much noise warrants investigation. Before starting my '04 RT-P for the daily commute to work, when backing out of the garage I'm hearing a light clunking from the rear that I'm starting to wonder is an issue with the 95K+ driveshaft.

 

Should I be concerned if there Is *any* noise when walking the bike around abnormal, or am I being over-sensitive?

 

I have a "spare" shaft with joints that need to be replaced, so I'm trying to assess whether I need to send it out for joint replacement now, rather than putting it off for a while to avoid the near-term expense.

[Bernie]

I replaced my drive shaft with 125k. It made no noise, but when I serviced my rear drive, I always move the u-joint back and forth by hand, that is when I noticed a rough spot.

I have had several friends that had catastrophic failures during speed and 4 out 5 had to replace the swing arm. Tripling the price of the repair. There mileage was around 65-90k miles.

If you got 80+ on your shaft, change it.

[eddd]

Slight thread highjack -- but related, if you don't mind.

 

How "heavy" is the clunking noise?

 

The reason I ask is I've never experienced a driveshaft failure so I don't know how much noise warrants investigation. Before starting my '04 RT-P for the daily commute to work, when backing out of the garage I'm hearing a light clunking from the rear that I'm starting to wonder is an issue with the 95K+ driveshaft.

 

Should I be concerned if there Is *any* noise when walking the bike around abnormal, or am I being over-sensitive?

 

I have a "spare" shaft with joints that need to be replaced, so I'm trying to assess whether I need to send it out for joint replacement now, rather than putting it off for a while to avoid the near-term expense.

 

Noise from an RT-P with 95K would be a concern. Since it is almost almost always the rear u-joint I would drop the final drive down and take a look. It is a pretty easy job on the Hexhead.

 

As I mentioned above, the time from some looseness to total destruction can be very short. The problem is exacerbated by the amount of mechanical noise the bike makes all the time and the use of hearing protection.

 

I lost the u-joint on an R1100RT in a matter of miles. I had zero warning anything was about to happen when I stopped for breakfast and refueling only to have it come apart about 50 miles down the road.

[JayJay]

Mig - While the metal shavings do not sound good, don't be too quick to label this a driveshaft failure. On my '09 RT I had these same warning sounds, and to me they sounded like when I used to have U-joints go in cars. So I presumed it was a driveshaft.

 

Up until the point that I rotated the final drive free of the driveshaft and spun the shaft and found it solid. Rotating the final drive, though, the clunk was there. Turned out to be early failure of the crown bearing, which was a simple part replacement since I caught it early.

 

So before you go to the hassle and pull the swingarm, separate the final drive from the shaft and rotate both to find out where your roughness is. (BTW, if you pull the swingarm you'll need a modified deep socket to hold the shaft while you tighten the locking nut. If you do go that way let me know, I live sorta near you and can lend mine to you.)

 

JayJay

Edited April 29, 2015 by JayJay

[dirtrider]

Slight thread highjack -- but related, if you don't mind.

 

How "heavy" is the clunking noise?

 

The reason I ask is I've never experienced a driveshaft failure so I don't know how much noise warrants investigation. Before starting my '04 RT-P for the daily commute to work, when backing out of the garage I'm hearing a light clunking from the rear that I'm starting to wonder is an issue with the 95K+ driveshaft.

 

Should I be concerned if there Is *any* noise when walking the bike around abnormal, or am I being over-sensitive?

 

I have a "spare" shaft with joints that need to be replaced, so I'm trying to assess whether I need to send it out for joint replacement now, rather than putting it off for a while to avoid the near-term expense.

 

Afternoon Mark

 

Appx. how many clunks do you get per full wheel rotation?

 

If 3 or 6 small clunks per full wheel rotation then very possibly a "U" joint starting to go south.

 

If one clunk per wheel rotation then probably not a "U" joint.

 

[mig]

Good info gents:

I cant recall how many clunks i was hearing, but I will check the FD crown, since that got replaced about 6 months ago by the shop. Seemed like when the bike clutch was out there was no noise ( slight load ) and then with the clutch in I could hear it. First thought that my tranny was still engaged. I had no vibration and only noticed the sound yesterday. I did call Bruno machine, and they will do the rt1200 u joint for about 330 US dollars, another 120 in round trip shipping. Anybody deal with him, and his work. My local BMW shop tells me the new part is warrentied for 2 years, and they will knock the price down to 900 and change. Not sure which way to go. I'll know more saturday

[eddd]

 

You might want to check with this company. Others have used them with good results.

[marcopolo]

For what it's worth, last fall I bit the bullet and swapped out the driveshaft on my '06 RT (with about 91,000+ miles) as a preventive measure. Part was about $950 and labour $200. A friend from this board had his go last summer while riding two-up at highway speeds, something that will definitely get your attention. Also, somewhat before that, I had asked my independent tech what sort of failures he sees on R1200s at my mileage, or before. He mentioned driveshaft at around 80,000 miles and up. That, and a few other discussions with others on this board (Bernie being one) led me to take the pre-emptive strike approach.

Edited April 30, 2015 by marcopolo

[mig]

well I had time after work ( i work the night shift currently ) and got to the drive shaft and yup it's the U-joint. One bearing is basically gone and the whole joint has side to side play. So now to figure out the next step. Luckily nothing else is damaged. Sorry can't post a picture since i only have images on my hard drive .and i guess I need a web service to host them?? never posted a picture so not sure. So next question. Anybody removed the swing arm.? JayJay i saw that you did the rear shock, haven't gone to the write up to check on it, but will when I wake up. many thanks to all for the help.

Edited April 30, 2015 by mig

[JayJay]

well I had time after work ( i work the night shift currently ) and got to the drive shaft and yup it's the U-joint. One bearing is basically gone and the whole joint has side to side play. So now to figure out the next step. Luckily nothing else is damaged. Sorry can't post a picture since i only have images on my hard drive .and i guess I need a web service to host them?? never posted a picture so not sure. So next question. Anybody removed the swing arm.? JayJay i saw that you did the rear shock, haven't gone to the write up to check on it, but will when I wake up. many thanks to all for the help.

I haven't done the swing arm (yet) but don't see any reason that it shouldn't be fairly straightforward. Only potentially tricky part I see is that you need a special socket to tighten down the lock nut on the pivot shaft. I went ahead and got that socket, thinking I was going to replace my driveshaft, but as I mentioned above the problem was crown bearing, not U-joint. Some time in the future I'll pull the swing arm to lube the bearings and maybe change out the shaft prophylactically.

 

JayJay

 

JayJay

[Bernie]

Here is a list of what I can remember I had to do to change my drive shaft. I'm not sure if it is complete.

Remove muffler, remove rear wheel, remove brake cailper, remove abs sensor, swing down rear drive.

Remove or disconnect rear shock.

Remove foot peg mounting plate, careful with the right one, I disconnected the rear brake cylinder (locktite on small bolts), before I removed the right plate completely.

Remove small cover on right side pivot pin of swing arm. Use either a slide hammer or some home made contraption to pull right side pivot pin.

Left side requires a big socket and a 12 mm Allen wrench.

Remove tierap and pull back boot on rear of transmission. Pull swing arm and rear drive of the back of the bike.

Separate drive shaft from gear box.

I think that was it. The drive shaft has a internal spring clip on the side that goes on the gear box output spline.

Install everything reverse, after getting new parts and cleaning pivot pins. A good time to change rear drive fluid.

[Bernie]

Here are the pictures I took during the process of changing my drive shaft and swing arm bearings.

Drive shaft change picture album

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Mig

 

 

Bernie's picture sort of shows it but one of the most important things is-- to FIRST use a rope or ratchet strap & tie the center stand to the front wheel or front fork.

 

It is sooo darn easy to knock these hexhead bikes off the center stand when working on the swing arm or final drive area. (that quickly turns the job into a big disaster)

[Bernie]

Thanks for the reminder dirtrider, I do tie off the center stand, but I forgot about it, sitting in the office.

[mig]

bernie, thanks for the fotos. Yeah looks straight forward. just was wondering what the long rod was for, ( banging out the bearings on the opposite end??? )

I will have to hunt down some drawing of the swing arm so I can see what I'm doing ( visual learner ) I think dirt rider usually provides some great reference drawings if I remember correct ??

Jay jay my sister in law lives in menlo park, so easy double duty trip. I'll PM you once I am ready if that ok?

Ok now to really go to bed and call it a day.

thanks guys

 

 

Edited April 30, 2015 by mig

[Bernie]

Yes, mig. I used a 5/8" all tread rod to remove the bearings. That is what I had handy. I have drawings and specs on the BMW service DVD, but it is at home. You can also use it to knock out a stuck pivot pin.

The torque spec for the left pin is very low, like maybe 7 nm. But mine was very tight, almost like someone had over tightened it. Maybe that's what caused the bearings to go, or maybe just 120+k miles.

[mneblett]

BMW originally said 7 Nm (and hold the pin while the locknut is being tightened to prevent further pin tightening). IIRC, 10 Nm is now recommended.

 

Waiting for D.R. to enter and contradict

[dirtrider]

Evening Mark

 

My latest service manual still shows 7Nm L/H side & 9Nm right side.

 

Do you have a service bulletin (or a bulletin number) showing the 10Nm change?

 

I checked my BMW service bulletins & nothing there showing 10Nm.

 

I doubt 10nm would hurt it & I usually do an initial torque to 10Nm, then articulate the swing arm a few times, then back the L/H torque off, then re-torque to 7Nm.

 

Then mark the stud so I can assure it hasn't moved after big nut torque.

[mig]

Well i ordered the driveshaft should be here in a week so i have time to disassemble

i got my maintenance CD out and saw the assembly, pretty straight foward. just got to PM Jayjay for the tool

thanks to all, will post my results got the price to 990 total

 

[mig]

just wanted to finish off this thread with a picture.

shaft replacement was very simple and quick. hardest part was removing the brake cylinder from its mount, stripped one bolt. should be a hex bolt for easier maintenance. trying my first every picture post, so here goes

[Bernie]

I am glad it worked out OK.

 

[JayJay]

just wanted to finish off this thread with a picture.

shaft replacement was very simple and quick. hardest part was removing the brake cylinder from its mount, stripped one bolt. should be a hex bolt for easier maintenance.

Glad it worked out well for you, Miguel. Yeah, the master cylinder attachment bolts are a pain in the butt. I think they were originally thread-locked into place. Short job but an expensive part...

 

JayJay

[WickedMonkey]

Don't see a way to follow without replying. Just want to save this thread. I believe I'll be  changing my driveshaft this week.

[chrisolson]

4 hours ago, WickedMonkey said:

Don't see a way to follow without replying.

 

Top of topic page

 

 

[WickedMonkey]

20 minutes ago, chrisolson said:

 

Top of topic page

 

 

Thank you! I had only hovered over the number and it said I could see who was following the thread. This is a big help!