Home theater ,HDTV questions

[Red Barchetta]

Well I jumped into the HDTV pool and now have some lingering questions.

 

Are MONSTER cables worth the money? The component cables start at $25 and go up to $60 (for the REALLY good ones ). I bought the $25 cables(by monster)but I wonder if there is a difference.

 

Do I need HDMI cables? Of course the sales man thinks I do, at $110 a piece.

 

Power supply/surge suppressor. Once again they tried to sell me a $200 unit that allegedly will smooth the power delievery and give me a better picture.

 

BTW I bought a Mitsubishi 52628, 52" 1080p DLP. I have cable with the HD package. So far I'm really happy with the TV. The HD channels are spectacular and regular TV looks crappy!

 

I don't mind paying more for quality, I just hate feeling like I'm getting taken.

[TracerBullet]

I think the monster cables are worth it. I have used them in all my appplications for the last 10 years or so.

 

As far as the power conditioner I would not be without it. I use a Panamax conditioner. www.panamax.com I currently have the max 5100 ex. I had the 4300 and we had an electric spike that fried the unit and saved my components (that is exactly what it is supposed to do)

The hardest thing on sensitive electronics is power fluctuations

I would not have a theater without panamax.

I hope this helps you

I cannot comment on the HDMI cables as I do not have any personal experience with them

sal

[Ken H.]

Are MONSTER cables worth the money?

Consumer Reports did a analysis of them with a spectrum analyzer a couple of years ago and pronounced them a gimmick.

allegedly will smooth the power delivery and give me a better picture.

Baloney. The TV has it's own internal supply that converts and controls power to its internal components. Surge suppressors may have some rudimentary value for protection purposes, but it certainly has nothing to do with picture quality.

Do I need HDMI cables?

Personal opinion, I think they're a gimmick too.

Of course the sales man thinks I do

He's just padding the deal with every high-margin thing he can think of. If it was me and he was being a bit too obnoxious I would have walked on the whole dang deal!

[Ralph]

Monster will sound better than stock cheapies,but not allot better. More marketing hype! I use Kimber myself. I think i may have an extra HDMI cable laying around if you need one. The last Pioneer I installed was all component. I may have a DVI also.

[David]

I don't think the Monster cables do anything.

 

I think the primary advantage of HDMI is the removal of cable clutter.

 

I think an uninterruptible power supply is a very good idea. Something like an APC unit. Not only will it catch any surges, it'll smooth out brown power, save your settings, and allow you to power everything down elegantly if you happen to be watching at the time.

[Ralph]

Also look into Brickwall series surge protectors. No MOV's in like that have been known to start fires. The upper end Panamax's do not use them though. Another is a Richard Grey power station, but it is priced way beyoun it's real value. Brickwalls run around 199. I think. I don't have a price list right now. Hope this helps.

[Bob Palin]

Monster will sound better than stock cheapies,but not allot better. More marketing hype!

The Consumer Reports tests proved that isn't true, they sound better because you paid more for them, the brain is a wonderful thing!

Edit: I should say that that is true if the stock cheapies are properly made, the cheap ones may tend to have more bad connections etc.

 

Whether HDMI is worthwhile depends on your input to it and the conditions under which you are viewing, i.e. probably only under perfect conditions will you be able to tell the difference. A friend and I did an experiment with his 60" Sony HDTV using HDMI and component inputs and couldn't tell any difference. YMMV, it was a very informal experiment (in Imperial units). My next DVR has HDMI output and my Sony HDTV (a pathetic 55") has HDMI input so I may get a cable just to clean up the Gerald's nest behind the TV a bit, should have that by spring Torrey.

[sgendler]

HDMI is very much useful for HD content. On DVD playrs, it is a wash, since it isn't a hi def signal to begin with (although your DVD player will likely upconvert before putting it through the HDMI connection). My hi def digital cable box has an hdmi output, and it looks noticeably better than the component outputs on hi def content, presumably because a digital->analog conversion followed by an analog->digital conversion is going to degrade any signal. It also added noticeable lag to the audio, requiring me to add delay to audio signals in my preamp (something they are not all capable of).

 

As for audio interconnects, I think it is wise to avoid cheap red and white radio shack interconnects. There is no doubt in my mind that I can hear a difference between them and a higher quality cable. However, I have done blind tests between a $20 cable and a $500 (kimber) cable and couldn't spot the slightest bit of difference in repeated trials with multiple cables.

 

I wound up using "Blue Jeans Cable" purely because the cables are custom made to my lengths in cables of my chosen color, and can be wrapped together into bundles. My DVD player gets purple cables, cable box gets black cable, preamp output cables are red, cd player is green, etc. I can see at a glance what cable goes to what, they are all exactly the correct length, and they are all grouped into bundles with 'techflex' (a flexible webbing). Pricing was right around $6 per foot per cable, and they delivered a very complicated order perfectly, in 3 days, end to end. I was very impressed. The build quality is very high, much better than monster cables, which I've had fail on my many times over the years. The connectors are very high quality, but don't bite so hard on the connectors that you fear ripping them out of the circuit board, etc.

 

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/

 

--sam

[Bob Palin]

I defer to Sam on HDMI, I realise now that we were using an HDMI converter cable from some other output. I'm looking forward to getting a pure HDMI-HDMI picture with my new DVR. My house is filling up with DVRs, this will be my 4th.

[BFish]

just had my house remodled and one of the the "farkles" is a complete rewiring for everything electronic and a new media room. cables are like tree trunks and we have a UPS and dedicated circuit. when i say just...i may get to sleep in my own bed tonight, but yesterday was able to play with the new 56" toshiba DLP, etc. it's sweet.

[DiggerJim]

Are MONSTER cables worth the money? The component cables start at $25 and go up to $60 (for the REALLY good ones ). I bought the $25 cables(by monster)but I wonder if there is a difference.

 

Do I need HDMI cables?

<snip>

I don't mind paying more for quality, I just hate feeling like I'm getting taken.

I've got a 50" Toshiba Plasma, wall mounted with an upconverting DVD player, and an s-vhs VCR, standard cable and HD-OTA.

 

I laughed when the guy at Best Buy told me I needed HDMI cables for the DVD player (the player cost $100, the cable was 129 ) since "that's where the upconversion happens". Kid you not.

 

As an EE, I know something about cables and beyond that, I didn't fall off the turnip truck this week.

 

With current good DVD players (upconverting) there's almost no distinguishable difference between a good set of component cables and HDMI cables. (BTW, www.monoprice.com has excellent cables for very nice prices -- I think my HDMI was about $1.50/foot.) If you don't have an upconverting DVD player there's no technical benefit to the HDMI.

 

HDMI does have the benefit of carrying the audio with the video so it eliminates the separate audio cables. Careful though because the HDMI standard is evolving so it's subject to change. When the new HD DVDs come out this spring, HDMI will be more critical as it will allow you to avoid a conversion to analog for component cables.

 

The Monster cables are good but they're not that good. Dump the cheap cables (those small gauge composite cables that come with the sets & from cheap Radshack stores) and get some decent ones with gold connectors, upgraded shielding, etc. Monoprice or Bluejean are way more than enough quality (once you hit certain levels of cable quality, the devices on either end are the limiting factors which is the case for us in the consumer audio/video market). Monster=marketing.

 

What's happened is that the electronic components of a home theater system are so deeply discounted that the margin is all in the accessories. The mount for my TV cost almost $300 for a plate of steel and a couple of sliding brackets. No quick & easy alternatives. The cable side is a different story. (BTW, one of the women who works for me has a son who works at BB and his employee discount results in cables for 10-25% of the retail price depending on brand---that's the markup!)

 

They give you the "you just spent 6 or 10 thousand on a home theater system, you don't want to use cheap cables on it and waste that great video capability you just bought do you?" thing on you...but then have no answer when you ask them about the quality of the 150 feet of cheap RG6 between the cable box on the pole and the back of the set.

 

So the bottom line -- don't buy the Monster cables. Use component (not composite!) cables unless you want to eliminate the separate audio or you have an upconverting DVD player and then get HDMI. Use good shielded RG6 with minimal splits for the cable and tune your vid settings -- most of them are way too bright & intense (good for the harsh lighting of a superstore but not good for seeing it the way it's supposed to look -- get a copy of the AV Calibration DVD from Amazon).

 

A good home theater forum is www.avsforum.com which contains lots of general stuff and then component specific threads for most major providers of hardware out there.

 

Also, if you're not getting a great cable TV signal it might be that you're either underamplified at the house entrance or overamplified and split. Get rid of all the splitters and inline amplifiers and get yourself a drop amp. It's a splitter and amp in one and you'll be surprised what a difference it will make. Get an Electroline or PDI drop amp with as many ports as you need for all the cable connections in the house.

 

A typical crimped RG6 connection to a splitter will cost you about 3+db of loss (check the splitter it'll say what to expect). That's usually almost 1/2 the signal coming in the house (typically 7-10db). If you have more then 1 splitter you'll keep whacking at the signal. I had a 2-way splitter coming off the feed (1 to drive TV signals & 1 to go to the Cable Modem) and then I had another 4-way to split to a couple of different rooms. That cost me 90% of the signal to the TV. (I also didn't have the unused splitter outputs terminated with terminating resistors so I was losing signal there.)

 

To make up for the crappy signal I had a 10db gain amplifier inline before the 4-way and then another 10db gain amp just before the TV. Some stations had vertical lines in the video which are actually a result of overboosting the signal -- more then 15db and the quality degrades from excessive noise. (Both were cheap amps from Radio Shack -- about 20-$30 each.)

 

Switched it all to a 4-port PDI active return drop amp. (The active return is only needed if you put it in front of the cable modem so it can "talk" back to the network.) Picture cleaned up on *all* the TVs in the house not just the plasma. You can get a drop amp from your cable company (depending on the provider) or can buy your own -- check out ebay for "electroline drop amp" or "pdi drop amp". You should be able to find one for 50 or 60 bucks.

 

Then it's on to the audio portion - which depends on what you've got for audio capabilities (e.g. optical, etc.) between the TV and the amp.

 

Good luck. HD is a beautiful thing.

Jim

PS if your TV has a setting for DNR or Auto-DNR, try turning it off. Usually much cleaner picture that way.

[FIRST_BEEMER]

First and foremost. Don`t buy accessories`s from the store that sold you the TV. Rip-Off

Find a fry`s or something on-line and you`ll save 70% for the same items.

HDMI cable`s should come with the component`s you buy I.E. (DVD, DVR,) so don`t jump in to the salesman's B/S.

The Monster cable`s all have gold end`s so the lower end unit`s will work fine. When you buy a DVD player make sure you get one with the HDMI and you`ll be happy you did.

[Bob Palin]

HDMI cable`s should come with the component`s you buy I.E. (DVD, DVR,)

Have you seen one that does? I haven't but I haven't looked extensively, most of them include the standard RCA connectors and that's all.

[Ralph]

I have used the bluejeans cable also on some jobs.

[Ralph]

Hay Bob, If you can't hear the dif between Kimber & cheap cables that come with the unit, then you need to get your ears checked!

 

What you get is a thin sound from the cheap ones. I have listened to many cables from speaker to device interconnects. I found that not how much you spend or how fat the cable is, does not equal better sound. Or viewing. The better interconnects have a good solid connection, a highly shielded cable , and a good solid or screw type connection to the cable itself. Some high priced cables sound flat to me! You want a cable that tends not to color the sound. The Kimber line has some good and some bad interconnects . Bluejeans are not bad at all. I have hears copper and silver cables & I like the warm sound of copper. The silver seems faster, the base sharper & more detailed. The highs are a little bright or shrill sounding though. At least to me. I can listen to copper for hours, but silver for less than 1/2 the time. I have listened to customers 150K systems & 3K systems in the past. You really need to do research before you buy cables! Watch out for the sales sharks!!!

 

Thats my $0.02 and I'm sticking to it!

[Bob Palin]

Actually I don't have any cheap cables on my system, but they're not Monster either. I would never use my own ears as a test of hi fidelity sound, 400,000 miles on motorcycles and lots of loud music when I was young has taken its toll, I was just going by the Consumer Reports article.

[RT_Jim]

As most have already pointed out, the high cost cables are only marginally worth it. Home Theater magazine did a review of cables a couple years ago and while they found a big difference between the Radio Shack cables vs something about $20, there wasn't a lot of difference between the $20 range and the $100+. So find something decent and go with it. Currently, a buddy of mine is using AR cables that he found at BestBuy - pretty decent for the price.

 

Same thing for speaker wire - you can spend thousands (per foot!) but I found some nice stuff online for about $0.50 foot for 4 conductor speaker wire, good quality. (This was when I was building my theatre room and wired for 10.2 to be safe so I ran almost 1000' of wire in total) Again, skip the RS stuff and find something better but don't go overboard.

 

Panamax (or something like it) is well worth the money. I look at it this way, if lightening were to strike my house and cause a power surge, what would it cost me to replace my theatre equipment? (More than a new RT, that's for sure) So the Panamax is good insurance.

 

Side story on the Panamax - came home one evening during a storm and decided to watch some TV. Couldn't turn on the TV. Checked the Panamax and it said the voltage in the house was too high! Sure enough, voltage was 135. About an hour later, I heard a CLICK from the panamax and the voltage was back down and I could watch the TV. Don't know that 135 would have really hurt the TV, but it was nice to be given the option.

 

HDMI cables are nice if you have the components to connect. And mostly, they are a cable saver - you can do the same thing with a bunch of other cables so its nice to have only one. Otherwise, ......

 

And yes, once you start watching HD, you don't want to go back. My wife is now completely spoiled and hardly wants to go to a movie theater anymore. Why? When we have a large screen in the basement, can pause when we want, eat and drink what we want, and no crowds.

 

Jim

[Red Barchetta]

WOW! Thanks for all the replies. I knew there would be some experts with this stuff.

 

I feel better about some of the choices I made. When sales people start putting on the hard sell I tend to run.

 

I'm glad no one said "jeez, you spent $$$$ on a HDTV and you're too cheap to buy the best accessories".

 

The guy who installed the Cable said I could return the HD-DVR he brought for one with a HDMI out put. I might do that now that I found a resonable sorce for a HDMI cable (blue jean cable, thanks Sam)

 

If any one else has advice or dos and don'ts I would like to hear them.

 

Thanks again for the help, Dave.

[FIRST_BEEMER]

Yes I have. I own a HDMI DVD that came with the cable.

[JungleJim]

We use Furman and Panamax power products for power conditioning and protection on our jobs. Starting with clean, reliable power is a major key to success. Add some quality interconnects to form the base of a great system.

 

The Furman AC-215 retails for about $250 and mounts behind your plasma on the wall to condition the power to the set. It really will improve the picture.

Furman AC215

[Ralph]

I can get the panamax's at a jobber cost if anyone needs one.

[sgendler]

I would never use my own ears as a test of hi fidelity sound, 400,000 miles on motorcycles and lots of loud music when I was young has taken its toll, I was just going by the Consumer Reports article.

 

If you can't hear it, why pay for it? It seems senseless to purchase a level of quality that you cannot discern yourself. If I can't hear it in a blind test, it might as well not exist, as far as I am concerned. There are too many things I can spend money on that I can spot in a fraction of a second to waste money on cables I can't hear. That's why I used blue jean cable. I bought 2 pair of $300/pair interconnects and $500 speaker cables, all connecting some very reasonable hardware (Arcam, parasound, rotel, ProAc, treated room), and I couldn't hear the slightest difference between them and the blue jean cables I was comparing them to in a blind test. The $1100 in kimber cabling went back (although the braiding was very pretty), and I cabled the entire system for about the price of the kimber speaker cables, including multiple 6 foot DVI->HDMI cables.

 

--sam