Low idle after drop

[RSH]

Hello everyone,

 

I have a 2012 R1200RT with 23K KM. I have owned it since new. The only mod is 25mm bar risers that just go up, not forward. It was in perfect tune at 20K KM.

 

I dropped it at a stand still on the left side. It was a fairly soft drop. The left mirror housing plastic broke and the left valve cover & sparkplug cover got a little scuff. No engine guards (got the National Cycle ones on order). The left saddle bag took the brunt of the drop and got scratched pretty good, but it fits and comes off the bike fine.

 

Once we got back to the ride I noticed the idle had dropped from about 1250 RPM to 1100 RPM. When the bike is fully warmed up too. When it is started cold the fast idle seems OK, but as it reaches operating temp, the idle falls back to 1100 RPM.

 

The needle always was exactly between 1000 & 1500 RPM and so are my other friends camheads.

 

I have done everything on the Von Baden DVD, bought a GS-911 and did all the recalibrations, TB sync, rechecked the valve lash (perfect - all right in the middle), new sparkplugs and inspected every wire I could see. Did the throttle relearn. No fault codes show up on the GS-911.

 

It starts and runs fine, there maybe a little bit more vibration at speed, but I can't be sure as it is so subtle of a change, my mind may be playing games on me, as I want this to go away.

 

It still idles at 1100 RPM & feels a little lumpy at idle.

 

Throttle cables seem OK, the left handle bar took a good twist on the ground, but there is no visible scratches to he bar-end or the grip.

 

Any ideas what is wrong?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

 

 

[RSH]

Hello everyone,

 

I have a 2012 R1200RT with 23K KM. I have owned it since new. The only mod is 25mm bar risers that just go up, not forward. It was in perfect tune after the 20K KM tune up.

 

I dropped it at a stand still on the left side. It was a fairly soft drop. The left mirror housing plastic broke and the left valve cover & spark plug cover got a little scuff. No engine guards were on the bike - (got the National Cycle ones on order). The left saddle bag took the brunt of the drop and got scratched pretty good, but it fits and comes off the bike fine.

 

Once we got back to the ride I noticed the idle had dropped from about 1250 RPM to 1100 RPM. When the bike is fully warmed up. When it is started cold the fast idle seems OK, but as it reaches operating temp, the idle falls back to 1100 RPM.

 

The needle always was exactly between 1000 & 1500 RPM and so are my other friends camheads, at idle. 1250 RPM

 

I have done everything on the Jim Von Baden DVD, bought a GS-911 and did all the re-calibrations, TB sync, new air filter, rechecked the valve lash (perfect - all right in the middle), new spark-plugs and inspected every wire I could see. Did the throttle relearn. No fault codes show up on the GS-911. I am not sure about the spark-plug coils. Could one work just a little and not show up on the GS-911, but still causing the lower idle? (left side?)

 

It starts and runs fine, there maybe a little bit more vibration at speed, but I can't be sure as it is so subtle of a change, my mind may be playing games on me, as I want this to be fixed.

 

After all the retuning, it still idles at 1100 RPM & feels a little lumpy at idle.

 

Throttle cables seem OK, the handle bar took a good twist to the left on the ground, but there are no visible scratches to the bar-end or the grip.

 

Any ideas what is wrong?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

Morning RSH

 

Have you checked the L/H spark plugs (especially the lower one)?

 

It might be as simple as the oil ran into the low cylinder when it was tipped over & fouled the lower spark plug.

 

Otherwise make sure the TPS (little black thing on the L/H throttle body) didn't get moved somehow.

 

Make sure the L/H o2 sensor didn't get damaged.

 

Make sure your air filter/filter box isn't full of oil as the crankcase vent is on the L/H side.

 

Probably just a fouled lower L/H spark plug (lets hope so anyhow)

[RSH]

Thank you DR for the reply.

 

1) I did replace the all the spark plugs.

2) The TPS looks OK & the fairing did not get bumped there.

3) The air filter box did have a lot of oil it which I cleaned out.

4)The GS-911 showed the "Real Time Values" for the 02 sensors to be the same, so I assume that is good. There is no physical damage to the left O2 sensor.

5) Can the idle actuators/stepper motors get jilted and maybe the butterfly valves they control be out of alignment?

6) I just ran a graph with the GS-911, using the Real Time Scope. I plotted just the idle actuators 1 & 2. Two lines came across the plot tracing each other fairly close, then when the bike warmed up there was only one line. Could this be the culprit?

 

Thanks again & sorry for the double post. I was trying to edit the spelling mistakes in the first post and it seems I got it wrong.

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

clip--

 

Afternoon RSH

 

 

5) Can the idle actuators/stepper motors get jilted and maybe the butterfly valves they control be out of alignment?--

The idle actuators (stepper motors) do not control butterfly valves, they have little pintles (basically a little tapered plug that moves into & out of an air by-pass passage hole). It sounds like they are close side to side so unless one is lost (counts don't match the actual pestle position) that doesn't sound like your problem.

 

 

 

6) I just ran a graph with the GS-911, using the Real Time Scope. I plotted just the idle actuators 1 & 2. Two lines came across the plot tracing each other fairly close, then when the bike warmed up there was only one line. Could this be the culprit? --see above, slightly possible but doesn't really sound like it.

 

Do you think it fell on the valve cover hard enough to damage the upper spark plug coil?

 

You might do a 20 minute battery disconnect, then reconnect the battery & do a new TPS relearn just to see if clearing the computer & doing a TPS re-learn makes a difference.

[RSH]

The spark plug coil could of taken a hit, but there is no physical evidence, and I did replace that spark plug first. I'll recheck it & see if the protective plastic could of bent inward to hit the coil.

 

I'll try a 20 minute TPS relearn & report back. The first time I did that, I only disconnected the battery for a minute or so.

 

Your efforts to help me are appreciated - Thank you.

[dirtrider]

Afternoon RSH

 

The 20 minutes it to try & totally clear ALL the computer adaptives & old learned off-sets.

[Lester V]

The battery disconnect is what cured my 2011 Camhead. I did all the TB sync, tps correction and stepper reset etc to no avail.

 

It did take a few starts and runs of the bike to get the bike back to it's proper idle though. Can't figure why it took that long......

 

Dirtrider, you da man...

[RSH]

I did the 20 minute reset & once it warmed up, it settled into the same 1100 RPM idle.

 

The spark plug coil was not damaged at all, visibly anyway.

 

So if you were a betting man would you suspect the idle actuation pot, the TPS or spark plug coil?

I am willing to buy these parts and just hope one of them will fix the problem

 

Is it OK to ride the bike if the idle is off a little? I have an annaul 2 week ride coming up on the 19th and not sure if I will have this problem solved by then.

 

Unfortunately here in Calgary the Dealership is not very helpful nor do they have the skill/staff to figure this out, so we are left to our own devices.

 

Thanks again.

[RSH]

I also switched the top spark plug coils from left to right, just to see if I could hear or feel a difference and the symptoms were identical to earlier descriptions. No difference I could detect.

 

Thanks.

[dirtrider]

Morning RSH

 

Difficult to tell you much more without having the bike in front of me here.

 

If the engine runs OK now, & idles without stalling I would just ride it for a while to see if it eventually re-learns the idle it had before.

 

As for a little more engine vibration-- that was probably already there & you are just looking for possible problems so are more tuned into it now.

 

You might just be fighting a little water that was in the R/H lower tank wing & that came over to the L/H (pump) side during the tip-over.

 

[RSH]

 

I did not mention I dropped it ~1000 KM from home and rode it back with no problems, other than worrying about it, it seemed to run OK - with the exception of the idle abruptly changing lower by 150 RPM.

 

I am going to take your advice and just ride it and see if the relearns settle in.

 

I found your comment on diesel oil interesting too. My other two bikes, Suzuki's, the forum guys swear by Rotella T6 5-40 syn. That is what I use in them, T6 has a JASO DH-2, JASO MA 2 rating, I read that somewhere. Not sure of the reliability of the source.

 

For the RT I am using Castrol 4T, as per my Haynes Manual, which I found at Wal*Mart of all places. $15/L there - $25/L at the Dealership.

 

Thank you for your advice and analysis.

 

Have a great summer.

 

Randy

 

 

 

[fourteenfour]

so just a low idle but it feels right at other rev ranges? is the gauge accurate? its the only thing left

[Eddiet204]

For what it's worth, I ride my RT in police motor competitions and these bikes go down quite hard quite often. Although the RTP has engine guards, the cases do take hits, sometimes repeatedly. Despite the abuse these bikes take, nothing you described has happened. As others suggest, I would just ride it and see how it goes.

[RSH]

Thanks for the note.

 

The RPM gauge seems OK, as at memorized speeds it is the same RPM.

 

And at 1100 RPM it is more of a "loping idle" rather than the smooth idle it had before (smooth for a twin anyway)

 

More to come.

[RSH]

Thanks for the info.

 

I am trying a few other things then forgetting about it, as it is time to ride.

 

Summer is short up here.

[RSH]

Hello D.R.

 

Hope you don't mind a couple more questions.

 

I have gone thru a few tanks of gas since my last post with no change in the idle despite the re-learns etc.

 

On speculation I have ordered 2 idle actuators w/O-rings and 1 TPS unit from BikeBandit.com

 

My questions are:

 

1)When I remove the old units, will there be any surprises waiting to spring out on the the garage floor or something unexpected.

 

2)When I install the new units, can I recalibrate them all with the GS-911? I am especially concerned about the TPS.

 

3)Does a BMW Dealership have to be involved with their computer?

 

Thank you.

[fourteenfour]

I am curious where the idle is supposed to be, I am new to camheads (9T) and mine idles about there

[RSH]

From what little I know, if the idle actuators work, throttle bodies are synced correctly, TPS is OK, valves adjusted properly, no air restrictions, clean fuel, good spark plugs, good compression, O2 sensors functioning, throttle cables & free-play in good shape, no vacuum/exhaust leaks... etc, the idle settles seems to settle into approx the 1250 RPM range. (at least on the Camheads I have seen in my group)

 

So there is no idle adjustment, it is just a by-product of all the other parts functioning properly and the bike being in good tune. There maybe ECU or ZEF parameters that must be met, but I have no knowledge of these parts. (BMS-K?)

 

I am fairly new to the R1200, so more experienced minds may have more info or correct my observations.

 

Good luck!

[lkraus]

I am curious where the idle is supposed to be, I am new to camheads (9T) and mine idles about there

 

Online owners' manuals for the R1200RT, 2005-2014, all show idle at 1150rpm. Some years show a ±50rpm allowable variance.

[RSH]

It was the TPS.

 

GS-911 indicated RPM jumped from 1079 to 1150+ RPM when I installed it. And the idle became much smoother. No missing or erratic sounds.

 

Sorry about all the questions in an earlier post. I did not mean to be presumptuous.