Harley's Electric Motorycle

[moshe_levy]

No need to go to those forums. Just visit HD's own FB page. Sadly - VERY sadly - the reaction is mostly negative, with the usual stupidity on rampant display:

 

1) How will they hear us? Loud pipes save lives!!

2) This is a government conspiracy!

3) What will it leak?

4) What will happen to the gas models? Are they being discontinued?

 

Ugh.... It is painful. Really, really painful. Like watching a horse trying to run and weighed down by a needless leash.

 

-MKL

[russell_bynum]

Battery technology is exploding and every year, they get smaller, lighter, and gain capacity.

 

And yet the range of every BEV except the Model S still totally sucks. And they all have long recharge times.

 

 

That's what makes this new HD great - the process is helped when the heavyweights in the marketplace get behind the idea. Their money, engineering expertise, distribution, and innovation push this along at a faster pace.

 

With a 53 mile range, I'm not getting the feeling that HD put much actual thought into this...much less any engineering. That's nowhere near what the "little guys" like Zero are offering. And Zero is actually selling real products...this is just a "look at how advanced we are" concept bike...which isn't advanced at all.

 

As for HD being a tech laggard, like the Vrod before it, the Livewire proves that the MoCo is dying to stretch its legs technologically, and maybe even push the boundaries a little - but the company is handcuffed to an extremely conservative, Luddite customer base which fears ANY change to the status quo.

 

Oh yeah...the V-rod was a technological marvel...I mean...it's engine was LIQUID cooled. Why...that was something that nobody had ever tried before. Well...except for every other motorcycle manufacturer for the last 20 years. But other than that, HD was breaking new ground. I heard it even had an upside down fork and never-before-tried disc-style brakes. Crazy stuff!!

 

LOL. The V-Rod was pushing the limits for HD, but for every other motorcycle manufacturer, it was 10+ year old technology. Absolutely nothing new. Don't get me wrong...I like the bike...a lot. But the only boundaries it pushed were the boundaries of HD's status quo.

 

They're getting older though, and the MoCo needs to get the next generation of young customers into the showroom. They're hoping products like the Street line and concepts like the Livewire help in that endeavor.

 

Do they? I Agree that HD's demographic is going away. And the younger generation doesn't seem to be interested in what they've got to offer. (For that matter, much of the younger generation is unemployed and living at home.) But I'm not seeing how a really pathetic attempt to show off their tech prowess helps. If they were doing something really cool...OK. I mean...concept vehicles should be outrageous. They should make your jaw drop and you scream "WOW!!!!!!!!" I'm not seeing that here...I'm seeing that they tried something that's already being done (electric motorcycle), did a half-assed job with the tech, and then dressed it up. And on the latter...it does look good. But All HD's look good. Where's the Wow?

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

With a 53 mile range, I'm not getting the feeling that HD put much actual thought into this...much less any engineering.

 

No kidding. The Zeros you mentioned are good for 137 city/85 highway miles; whichever figure you use, that beats the LiveWire's claimed range handily.

 

And Mission Motors' e-bikes do even better: 230 city miles, 140 highway miles. They also beat the LiveWire's acceleration, with 0-60 in 3 seconds (versus 4 for the LiveWire.

[Selden]

...But All HD's look good. Where's the Wow?

That's a very debatable statement. I would argue that a HD with 24" ape hangers and a springer front end looks anything but good — except, perhaps, to its owner. If you like vast expanses of chrome and tasteless custom paint jobs with flames and semi-naked women, maybe. Personally, I've never understood the attraction of a motorcycle that looks like it was designed 50 years ago. Not that there haven't been some classic designs in the past....

 

 

 

[Selden]

111 Years of Harley in 30 Seconds

[Sweendog]

I can tell you the only thing keeping me from buying a Zero is the price. I'd really, really like to have one for around town riding and my commute. I simply can't justify the cost right now. Even the smallest one is $10 grand.

[moshe_levy]

I feel the 53 mile range is the result of not using dedicated cells to keep cost on prototype production down. Surely if a small company like Zero can have real range, HD can beat it using a dedicated battery design of proper technology.

 

Who knows? With Tesla's patents unleashed and Gigafactory on the way, perhaps a collaboration is possible? Either way, HD would need to be competitive in this area and it's a mistake to publicize this figure without adding the caveat that the actual production bike would be much more. At least, it SHOULD be much more, and there's no reason it wouldn't be.

 

-MKL

[Ponch]

I feel the 53 mile range is the result of not using dedicated cells to keep cost on prototype production down. Surely if a small company like Zero can have real range, HD can beat it using a dedicated battery design of proper technology.

 

Who knows? With Tesla's patents unleashed and Gigafactory on the way, perhaps a collaboration is possible? Either way, HD would need to be competitive in this area and it's a mistake to publicize this figure without adding the caveat that the actual production bike would be much more. At least, it SHOULD be much more, and there's no reason it wouldn't be.

 

-MKL

 

Can you imagine Tesla/HD dealerships?

[eddd]

I'm really disappointed by all the stereotyping trolls though dismissing the concept instead waiting to see what happens. I guess they're too busy playing McGyver to keep their old bikes alive or sitting in the waiting room at the dealership drinking kool-aid while they get their ESA recall done.

 

...or posting endless line by line rebuttals and comments on the thoughts of others.

[fourteenfour]

While the range is disappointing the technology is still new and really just isn't there yet. Until charging is measured in single digit minutes, until you don't need sixteen feet of car to get less range than the average gasser, the tech just isn't there.

 

Give it five to ten years, the technology will improve enough to where hopefully one day, you won't have to plan out a route to go long distance because your choices of where to recharge/fuel-up are limited

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

I feel the 53 mile range is the result of not using dedicated cells to keep cost on prototype production down.

 

Which is to say that Harley is backing an e-bike, but kind of half-heartedly. Given that there are at least two competing e-bikes with substantially greater range and acceleration, what is so amazing about Harley's effort? What is the innovative aspect? What corner of the envelope have they pushed with this design?

 

Harley may be a heavyweight in the industry, but if they're going to put out a prototype that's way behind what their tiny start-up competitors are producing, then I'm not sure what we should be impressed about.

 

 

[eddd]

 

I'm thinking they might just be after some press as well as something to get potential customers to attend the bigger motorcycle shows, events, and dealers. Not really a bait and switch, just a bait and "hey, as long as you're here let me show you our latest..."

[racer7]

I give them points for trying. Personally, I've got no use for short range bike. Anything I own has to be able to do at least 100 miles at upper road speeds to be even remotely tenable as any could be called on to do that, even if the ride start didn't anticipate it.

Of the 7 in our fleet the one with the shortest range is the R1100S where you need to be looking for your next fuel hit when it gets to 140 or so at speed.

 

One can generally get demos on Harleys (or find nearby places that rent) so if they sell it, I may go ride it.

 

My track experiences make me conservative and not an early adopter. I prefer what is proven to work well to the latest thing but I doubt there's much in the way of really new tech in the bike. Just the usual issues of whether the bits are adequately durable in real world use.

[Selden]

I'm thinking they might just be after some press as well as something to get potential customers to attend the bigger motorcycle shows, events, and dealers. Not really a bait and switch, just a bait and "hey, as long as you're here let me show you our latest..."

HD has said as much. The main difference between the LiveWire and most prototype concept bikes is that the Motor Company is making multiple copies, and apparently they plan to offer test rides to people.

 

The LiveWire is a work in progress, based on “what we think our customers are looking for,” Richer says. The company hopes to glean more info during the LiveWire tour, and iterate accordingly to suit consumer tastes. Think of this as LiveWire v1.0....

When you consider the cost of advertising, Harley has gotten so much free publicity out of this that they may have already recouped the development costs in terms of the potential increase in traffic to dealerships.

 

[Selden]

That's a very weird photo. From the center back, it looks like a modern sport bike; forward HD. And the rider! De rigeur no helmet (although she could be wearing a headband), leather pants, and what appears to be a Glock strapped to her thigh.

 

What's wrong with that...isn't that how everyone rides? I like the hair styled to look like she (or is it a he??) is going fast.

 

Seems legit.

This is not a rhetorical question: What is likely to happen if you have a getoff at 60 mph with a Glock strapped to your thigh? I'm guessing a potentially painful bruise, and a severely rashed handgun, but that even if a round were chambered, it wouldn't go off.

[Ponch]

That's a very weird photo. From the center back, it looks like a modern sport bike; forward HD. And the rider! De rigeur no helmet (although she could be wearing a headband), leather pants, and what appears to be a Glock strapped to her thigh.

 

What's wrong with that...isn't that how everyone rides? I like the hair styled to look like she (or is it a he??) is going fast.

 

Seems legit.

This is not a rhetorical question: What is likely to happen if you have a getoff at 60 mph with a Glock strapped to your thigh? I'm guessing a potentially painful bruise, and a severely rashed handgun, but that even if a round were chambered, it wouldn't go off.

 

Imagine what it's like for a motorcop to have a get off with all the gear they wear.

[moshe_levy]

Harley may be a heavyweight in the industry, but if they're going to put out a prototype that's way behind what their tiny start-up competitors are producing, then I'm not sure what we should be impressed about.

 

It's the Toyota moment, as I said above. Actually, we can call it the Tesla moment, which is more recent.

 

Tiny little Tesla designed a car that could travel exponentially farther than any major manufacturer's effort on electric power. Tech was designed and pushed, and the popularity of the Model S caught the majors with their pants down.

 

In response, all of them from BMW & MB to GM are all benchmarking Tesla and pouring tons of money into R&D to build competitors. Musk himself has said that by 2016-2017, we will see sub $50,000 cars with all the range of today's Model S, in part because now it's not just little Tesla pushing, but everyone pushing.

 

I don't think Zero made the same splash in the MC world as Tesla did in the auto world, but for HD to dip its toes into this pool, you can be damn sure the other major manufacturers have taken notice, if they haven't started protos of their own already.

 

That's why it's important. It's also important to HD to show the world it can walk and chew gum at the same time. Older demographics such as HD is saddled with are a brand killer - this puts the brand front and center in front of a young, progressive audience, which otherwise sees no value in the brand. Unfortunately the existing customer base is not receiving this idea well, from what I see. I'm just reading HD's own Facebook page and the customer comments are mostly just sad, misinformed tripe repeated over and over.

 

-MKL

 

 

[eddd]

 

I often read that Harley's core buyers are aging, and this signals the need for them to attract a different age/social/whatever group of buyers.

 

My observation, while obviously limited, is that it is a given that current owners are aging (duh), but I see an endless supply of customers in the pipeline. This endless supply just needs to get to the point in their lives where they have the money, and sometimes the money and the time, to make this major purchase.

 

I grew up in the Milwaukee area and have returned there every year to visit family. The area is flush with riders in their forties, and it is not just Milwaukee. All the surrounding states seem to be pretty much the same.

 

And the trend isn't unique to the Midwest. South Padre Island, Texas held two big biker events every year, and the situation was similar with even a large number of thirty year old riders. On the way back from North Meets South I encountered hundreds of California Harley riders heading home from the Laughlin, NV event on that same weekend. Younger riders far outweighed the aging riders we associate with Harleys. And living at the gateway to Zion and all the other National Parks I see lots of Harley, and other, riders passing through. Again, the aging demographic doesn't seem to hold up.

 

 

 

 

[Matts_12GS]

I'm really disappointed by all the stereotyping trolls though dismissing the concept instead waiting to see what happens. I guess they're too busy playing McGyver to keep their old bikes alive or sitting in the waiting room at the dealership drinking kool-aid while they get their ESA recall done.

 

...or posting endless line by line rebuttals and comments on the thoughts of others.

 

Glad to see you've joined the club Edddddddddddddddddddddddd.

[Gooner]

Me thinks the Electric Glide is an attempt by HD to gain political favor with Washington. Could be a future cap and trade ace in the hole. That would allow HD to continue to produce dirtier air cooled Big Twins for a few more years without the EPA breathing down their necks.

 

I agree and will take it a step further and say to gain favor with the EU as well. Harleys are growing in popularity among the 20-30 somethings, the Street 500/750 lines are meant more for Europe and India than the US and it may be the same for this tech demo as well.

[Selden]

The Johammer J1 is pushing the design envelope for electric motorcycles (as in, "What were they thinking???):

 

 

If I found one of these in the garden, I would pour salt on it before it mated and multiplied.

 

 

[Ponch]

If Willy G was still with HD, this is what he would have come up with:

 

[12R12RT]

The Johammer J1 is pushing the design envelope for electric motorcycles (as in, "What were they thinking???):

 

 

If I found one of these in the garden, I would pour salt on it before it mated and multiplied.

 

 

Were one to be seen riding that thing people would immediately think of a lonely guy and a sheep.

 

Tom

[Firefight911]

If loud pipes saves lives, imagine what learning how to ride would do....

 

LINKY