If you're over 50 and ride you're gonna get dead....

[beemerboy]

Older Riders are More at Risk. I think the article is based on a stereotypical segment of older or re-entry riders, what do you think?

[Kathy R]

 

In my case I know that my reaction time and cognition have diminished over the past 20 years, but misunderstanding one's shortcomings is not limited to older folks.

[beemerboy]

In my case I know that my reaction time and cognition have diminished over the past 20 years, but misunderstanding one's shortcomings is not limited to older folks.

 

Thank you, Kathy, for making my point so succinctly.

[MacGruber]

said it best.

[Bud]

I think I'm good once, as I ever was.

 

Reactions times not a good? Check

 

Physical abilities not as good? Check

 

Have to ride like I'm 67, not 37? Check

 

Having as much fun as ever!!!! Check, check, check.

 

Have to leave a little more room for errors, mine and others.

 

Self awareness is a good thing, regardless of your age.

 

Ride Well!

[Skywagon]

not sure but when I was young....my bike had two speeds...On and off. Today I ride like, dang this bike was expensive. Take care of it. I've been riding continuously since about age 6 and now in my mid 50's. I still enjoy hard riding in the country, but not in the city. I had a whole lot more near misses and accidents when I was in my youth because that is the way I rode. I assume at every intersection someone is going to turn left in front of me now. Never gave it a thought when I was 15 and got my first motorcycle license.

[Glenn Reed]

Quoting from the article -

 

"Many riders who have been on the road a long time believe they're highly skilled," said Glenn Davis, CDOT highway safety manager and a longtime rider. "While that may be true, statistics show us honing riding skills through training refines existing skills and prepares even experienced riders for unpredictable situations. We challenge riders to select a skill to work on this riding season and get some advanced training."

 

I remember that Paul Mihalka used to say that he tried to go to one training course each year, and he always learned something.

 

I haven't done it that frequently, but I should.

[sardineone]

I agree that the older re-entry riders have a challenge not being a statisic especially when pursuing very large & heavy bikes. The laws of physics have no sypathy for rusty skill sets. I'm now over 60 and haven't been off bikes since I started at age 16. As with many pursuits, I believe expereince is a real asset. For the most part I'd say my judgement skills have been near peaked since age 50 and they are instrumental for 2-wheeled survival. My doctor Jeckel & Mr. Hyde riding leans towards doctor Jeckel when appropriate in mostly urban settings. When conditions allow Mr. Hyde to emerge, I'd say when I was 30 I'd have quite a time keeping pace with the older rider I am now. JMHO!

 

PS. Just in case, I did hedge my bets with anti-lock brakes on my BMW for any future brain farts!

[greiffster]

another quote from the article....

 

"Older male bikers lead the pack in motorcycle and scooter fatalities, according to the Colorado Department of Transportation. Of the 86 bikers and passengers killed in 2013, 90 percent were male and nearly 57 percent were 45 or older. Twenty-four were 55 or older.

Of the 27 fatalities thus far this year, 93 percent were male and 44 percent were 45 or older"

 

I have two problems with the stats. First, the sample size is bit small to be making general statement that "older motorcyclists more at risk". 86 fatalities in one year, in ones state.

 

But more importantly, it doesn't talk about the median age of riders in the state? I don't think anyone is surprised that 90% were male, because probably 90% riding are male. But 57% were 45 years or older. If 57% of all riders are older than 45, than the stat means nothing.

 

I'm not saying there isn't truth to having slower reflexes and declining eyesight as we age. It obviously can affect how we ride and react. I'd just like to see some good data.

 

[Fathom]

As an older (54 y.o.) rider having gotten back into it about 8 years ago, I think I've benefited from all those years of driving subsequent to when I stopped (or WAS rather abruptly stopped by a speeding Caddy) at 16. Honing my skills through rider education, recognizing my (ample) limitations, and the aforementioned keen desire not to trash my very nice bike -- or myself -- all help.

 

What's not often mentioned (but I suspect has saved my ass on many occasions) is the recognition that my skills, reflexes, focus, and reaction times are different every day. I've been working very hard to pay careful attention to "where my head is at" every time I get on the bike. Did I get a good night's sleep last night? Have enough food and water in me? Is the weather affecting me, my tires, or a combination of the two? These are all, I believe, very important questions to ask (and answer as honestly as you can), every time kickstands are up, and I think this is true at any age. Whenever I'm not feeling super sharp, I generally ease waaaaaay back on the throttle, ensure that I'm fully hydrated (or Red Bull'd/caffeinated) and am not mildly hypoglycemic/spaced, and in extreme -- though thankfully very few -- cases, will actually leave her parked in the garage until such time as my head & my heart are fully in it. That last one can be pretty hard, but knowing ourselves well enough and listening to the messages our bodies are trying to send us can go a long way toward keeping us safe.

[sardineone]

Fathom, I actually follow your second paragraph almost verbatim myself. I'll call that another symptom of aging, WISDOM!

[Selden]

I would rewrite this sentence:

 

"A lot rode in their 20s, and when they hit 45 or 60, and the kids are out of the house, they decide to get and ride a motorcycle, but they don't realize how much bigger and more powerful today's motorcycles are."

 

In 1965, a Triumph Bonneville was a "big bike" with ~40 horsepower, and a Honda 305 was considered a mid-sized bike. In 2014, either of these would be considered beginner bikes, and it's not hard to find a 600cc bike with an engine that produces >100 horsepower. Anti-lock brakes and traction control will only get you so far, and can't protect you from entering a 45 mph curve at 90.

 

I'm taking an experienced rider refresher course on November 2. I should be like Paul, and do this annually, but any time is better than none.

[motorman587]

I kind of worried of getting older too and riding, but like someone stated if you know this ride within your abilities. I try and stay away from cities and ride at dawn, dusk or nights. This is probably why I (other reasons too) became a ridercoach for MSF. Tring to keep those skills sharpe.

[TNT]

I,m just about to get a new bike after been off a few years. I know I will have to take it slow and no way will I ride like I did years ago. I'm an old Grandpa now! lol

[tallman]

If you're over 50 and don't ride,

you are gonna get dead.

Just saying...

[Selden]

You're going to be dead eventually, whatever you do. Hunter S. Thompson hit it spot on:

 

“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!”

[racer7]

I'm a fan of Selden's notes here.

 

Didn't own a car until in my 30s, only bikes- so all of my driving habits were formed from learning the hard way (way before courses, licenses and helmet laws) to stay alive on a bike in all weather conditions. And augmented by lots of track time in cages.

 

Well aware I don't feel the bike as well as when young. I have vivid memories of the days my brain and the tire patch were one thing with the bike being a seamless connector. Today, I have to work to feel what the bike is trying to tell me sometimes. I just stay in my limits- not one to push it too much on NCs blind curves.

 

Re-entries and folks who have only had cages previous are typically extremely naive both about their skills and the risks of riding. And typically don't do enough training, riding short miles in good weather only. No surprise they get killed at higher frequency.

 

How many that you know have been hurt or killed in the past year or so? For most years, it 2-3 for me, a constant reminder that you have to know the limits of your game and always be on it. Luckily, self awareness tends to improve with age.

 

Having dodged 3 potentially lethal health issues in the past couple years, 2 by only a modest margin and 1 of those only by 3-1 odds, the bike is not at the top of my current concerns by a long shot.

[sardineone]

I've read the thread with continued interest in most part since I'm over 60 actually. Can't disagree with the 'risk' factor of the re-entering riders into the sport. My best wishes to them. One thing hit me though when thinking of over 50 riders I know. I've only lost a couple, but NOT to accidents! If you love riding like I do, keep you wits about you and ride! I know results will vary. Objectively I believe in my case I'm still near the top of my skills/judgment curve.

[Selden]

Objectively I believe in my case I'm still near the top of my skills/judgment curve.

Objectively, or subjectively? Seriously, what are your criteria for judgement?

 

Approaching 68 this week, I know I'm not near the top of my skills/judgement curve, and about a decade ago I consciously decided to start slowing down, as recovering from injuries takes longer. And, when I look back on more than 50 years of riding, I realize that in my teens and twenties, when I should have been at/near the top, I wasn't nearly as good as I thought I was. Fortunately, I survived that period of my life.

[sardineone]

I did say results vary, right? In simplistic terms, my criteria is how fast I can go comfortably and without incident. It takes being honest with yourself and good bike choice with proper preparation being a 'Josey Wales' type edge. I don't take chances without any concern of consequences like the squid subspecies of rider. It's all about risk management with the edge going to myself.

 

I too am a Hunter S. Thompson fan. So I'll throw back another quote of his at you.

If you ride fast and crash, you are a bad rider. If you go slow and crash, you are a bad rider. And if you are a bad rider, you

should not ride motorcycles

[Huzband]

Off topic, & my intent is not to derail this thread. But since he's been quoted twice I'll add my opinion.

 

HST was an ass. And his writings confirmed as much.

[TEWKS]

Mostly, if you ride a 450 Yamaha and try really really hard to pass the faster guy in front of you. Ok, 49, but who's counting at that point.

 

 

Pat

[Twisties]

There is undoubtedly increased risk with age. The older one is, the more susceptible to injury one becomes. Head injuries, in particular, are easier to sustain and more damaging with age. All the rest is true too.

 

But there is also increased risk with inexperienced riders. Young and overly aggressive riders. Drinking riders. Ill equipped riders. Returning riders. Poorly visible riders. Urban riders. The list goes on.

 

For me, I'm not old enough yet to have to worry much about physical abilities, and I respect my mental ones and stop as needed. I try to manage risk by getting trained, riding regularly, wearing ATGATT, keeping my bike maintained, riding mostly in remote areas, never drinking while riding, etc.

 

Although I didn't start riding until my mid-40's, training, an easy approach when starting out, and ATGATT protected me enough to avoid injury while I got up to speed. This forum helped a lot too. Made me aware of risks I would never have considered, and helped tons with technique. I think the new rider effect lasts a year, maybe three, depending how much one rides, abilities, etc.

 

I feel fortunate to have learned to ride in mountainous terrain, and conducted the vast majority of my riding in such. I worry about riders who seldom see such and then end up in CO.

[Twisties]

another quote from the article....

 

"Older male bikers lead the pack in motorcycle and scooter fatalities, according to the Colorado Department of Transportation. Of the 86 bikers and passengers killed in 2013, 90 percent were male and nearly 57 percent were 45 or older. Twenty-four were 55 or older.

Of the 27 fatalities thus far this year, 93 percent were male and 44 percent were 45 or older"

 

I have two problems with the stats. First, the sample size is bit small to be making general statement that "older motorcyclists more at risk". 86 fatalities in one year, in ones state.

 

But more importantly, it doesn't talk about the median age of riders in the state? I don't think anyone is surprised that 90% were male, because probably 90% riding are male. But 57% were 45 years or older. If 57% of all riders are older than 45, than the stat means nothing.

 

I'm not saying there isn't truth to having slower reflexes and declining eyesight as we age. It obviously can affect how we ride and react. I'd just like to see some good data.

 

That was one of my first reactions to the piece as well. Most moto safety issues seem to be informed by bogus inferences that don't stand up to critical review. Unfortunately, we seem to have little valid information from which to draw informed conclusions.

[Flingit1200s]

"Older male bikers lead the pack in motorcycle and scooter fatalities, according to the Colorado Department of Transportation. Of the 86 bikers and passengers killed in 2013, 90 percent were male and nearly 57 percent were 45 or older. Twenty-four were 55 or older.

Of the 27 fatalities thus far this year, 93 percent were male and 44 percent were 45 or older"

 

How many of these accidents had alcohol, weed or other drugs as a factor? For me, leaving that information out makes the stats totally meaningless. How many had MSF training?

[tallman]

And what type of accident, conditions?

 

Single vehicle, night time, left turn, mechanical failure/blown tire, vehicle too fast for conditions, etc ?

 

My reflexes get tested annually and are still very, very quick.

I am still ahead of my 15-18 yo male students.

 

 

But I ride like my reflexes are much slower.

YMMV

[270]

"Older male bikers lead the pack in motorcycle and scooter fatalities, according to the Colorado Department of Transportation. Of the 86 bikers and passengers killed in 2013, 90 percent were male and nearly 57 percent were 45 or older. Twenty-four were 55 or older.

Of the 27 fatalities thus far this year, 93 percent were male and 44 percent were 45 or older"

 

How many of these accidents had alcohol, weed or other drugs as a factor? For me, leaving that information out makes the stats totally meaningless. How many had MSF training?

 

These stats can be confirmed nationally, and it's been a trend for some time. Other MSF coaches can confirm that many returning riders never could ride to start with...and to me, that's a problem with the "returning rider" label; what exactly is a returning rider? A person who thought they could ride, but never did, only to come (back in their mind) and start riding only to crash?

 

There certainly are statistics that include alcohol and drug use as well, but I honestly think these stats speak for themselves and are indicative of a trend nationwide; older riders are disproportionately represented in motorcycle accidents.

 

FWIW..and a bit of a side note, a "piss and vinegar" 18 year old is easier to coach than the 25 year (claimed) veteren in an MSF class; breaking old and dangerous habits are very difficult and there is an element of pride in that older rider than the 18 year old. That's just been my experience as I watch older and "experienced" riders not be able to execute the most basic control skills; unable to look, unwilling to use a front brake or modulate the rear, unable to counterweight...and ready to argue the physics of the counterstear. Sigh...

 

And I'm an "old guy" too...or getting there anyway...

[rolandj727]

It seems to me that if you are worried about hundreds of a second in slowed reaction time - you are riding way to close to the edge.

[TyTass]

Aimed at no one in particular ... The Confession of a Re-entry Rider ...

 

I'm 54, a re-entry rider, and I am an addict. Though risky, I love riding motorcycles. I love wicking it up on country roads and enjoy the living daylights out of the exhileration of a well-executed line taken at speed. I accept I'm more at risk as an older, re-entry rider than younger, continuously-trained and highly-experienced riders. I just want to say how grateful I am to still be standing here, tearfully holding up my $100K mile, accident-free chip. I can say that were it not for far more experienced motorcyclists writing here, espcially course coaches/instuctors, and highly-experienced friends I've had the good fortune to ride with and profit from, I might not be standing here. Were it not for articles like this one, I might not have realized that my age puts me at increased risk for my addiction ... riding.

 

While presented as humor, there are a few serious points mixed in with the obvious sarcasm.

 

Yes, I have over 100K accident-free miles ... well, that's only true if I discount a number of small "events' that occurred earlier on in my experience since re-entry ... several zero-speed drops and a few near-misses (to include running off-road once and unintentionally going wide on a few decreasing radius right-handers that scared the dickens out of my then girlfriend). However, I can honestly say ... BFD! I don't for a second think that, or 10X that number of miles, buys me anything if I don't practice the right things, don't possess a good philosophy of riding, believe in some one-size-fits-all-approach skill set, believe I've learned it all or even enough, or believe my coordination doesn't degrade as I age or even change on a daily basis.

 

The FACT is ... I AM indeed grateful to many highly-experienced riders here who have shared their knowledge and exceptional insight in threads like these. I truly am. Serously, thanks a bazillion!

 

OTOH ... and I'm sorry to have to say this out loud ... but to my fellow re-entry riders and those who started riding late in life I must offer this warning:

 

Unfortunately, we must learn to separate the true gems of wisdom from from a cocophony of long-perpetuated BS theories, memes presented as substantiated facts, as well as downright stupidity on occasion ... despite all of those also being presented by experienced riders.

 

Unarguably, not every course or instructor teaches a correct way of doing every single thing. Just go to a couple courses and you'll see there are differences ... some being vastly different, and others mutually opposed to one another. The same is true for books on riding techniques/skills. And then there are fairly usless articles such as the one quoted. Seriously, who in their right mind would doubt our skill sets and coordination fade. If not, athletes would continue to play even the most demanding sports well-into their 60s!

 

So I beg of you, my fellow inexperienced riding addicts; read often, read widely, and evaluate critically.

 

 

[sardineone]

Craig, I like your insight & salute your success so far. Wish you many more fun & safe miles. Riding is a dynamic & changing sport in which every ride can have different variables. Canadian friends of mine have a saying worth considering. "Let the ride decide". So far your stat's could be better than mine. I've had two instances of road rash in approximately 218,000 miles on several machines. Unlike many in my area, I ALWAYS wear a helmet, ride sober and will do my best to keep having fun without adding to the crash statisics. For reference, I'm 50 + 12.

[TyTass]

George,

 

Thanks, but as I said I dont believe my stats prove anything that should make me any less wary of myself, conditions, or others.. I know I could go out tomorrow and a moment of inattention, over-confidence, or plain fatigue could result in a tragedy for me.

 

I couldnt agree more with your quote. My point is most of these issues apply to all riders. We reentry and new riders need to also focus on learning.

 

PS. 100K miles ago I had a very close brush with death (only ended up with a broken scapula, rib, and dislicated shoulder) due to ignorance, very limited skills, overconfidence, and fatigue. I hope to never be there again, but I admit I'd rather be proactive about learning rather that simply believe slowing down is a necessity at this time.

[tallman]

Craig,

 

We all should what is possible wrt your points.

 

Just for thought, I've been hit intentionally twice.

 

So wear your best gear all the time.

[aeroscout]

"Life should not be a journey...". I just found my new favorite quote. Awesome. Good to know I'm not alone in my thinking.

[Endobob]

In my case I know that my reaction time and cognition have diminished over the past 20 years, but misunderstanding one's shortcomings is not limited to older folks.

 

This thread is another great example of why I will try to check this board as often as I can for as long as I am riding motorcycles.

 

Kathy, my wife would probably say that I too have lost reaction time and have diminished cognition over the past 20 years!

 

However, I have only started to realize and adjust for the fact that my reaction time seems to have started to slow over the past year or two. At 69 years, I now don't get on the bike for short errands or short day rides, the bike is always in top notch mechanical shape, I never get on the bike without wearing ATGATT or if I feel less than 100% physically and emotionally.

 

I now mostly take 300 - 400 mile day rides and travel to BMWST events wherever they are. I start my rides off slowly and don't ride aggressively until I have had 30 minutes or more of riding on some challenging roads.

 

I had the good fortune to have followed Paul Mihalka over enough miles and had enough meals and good times with him to anticipate, that even though I am getting older, that I should be able to enjoy riding for many years to come.

[Scribner]

Well past the fifty marker and have been riding since I was nine. Reaction time is slower, eyesight not perfect, ability to sustain a hit is questionable, however, nothing short of flying makes me feel as alive as riding a motorcycle. Still puts a grin on my face. Even with diminished faculties I find my judgment to be much better than when I was younger and that compensates to some degree. As posted earlier, "a man's got to know his limitations".

[beemerboy]

This thread is another great example of why I will try to check this board as often as I can for as long as I am riding motorcycles......

 

As the OP, this is the sentiment I was hoping to engender when I started this thread. Like many of you, I'm in the age category the article references and got back into riding after a long absence. I did it with a very healthy respect for two-wheeled machines and with the notion that if I did get into and survive an accident, my mother would come to the hospital and kick my arse up and down the hallway.

 

If for nothing else, I wanted the article would be thought-provoking and remind us all that life is precious and things tend to change as we age so ya'll be careful out there!!

 

[MexicoDan]

I'm turning 70 in a couple weeks and I've definitely slowed down but not a great deal. I find that extreme paranoia about the other people and stuff on the road and pavement condition, particularly here in Mexico, continues to serve me well.

 

I think when I have to quit riding I don't want to live a lot longer. It is simply a big part of who I am after nearly 55 years in the seat of whatever I could afford with two wheels and an engine at any given time.

[racer7]

There is a flip side to this theme.

I didn't own a cage until my 30s- too poor. I built my driving habits for my life from 2 things- 1) learning on a bike and riding nothing else in snow country for over a decade and 2) playing with fast cages on tracks and teaching others to do the same.

 

Sure, I survived first few K miles in my teens by dumb luck and fast reflexes but they also illustrated most of the stuff I needed to adopt - which I did.

 

One can always learn but classes are no substitute for awareness and focus while riding. My local club has plenty of old guys with mucho miles on bikes and no accidents. No accident they're all regular hi milers.

 

The biggest thing re entry guys have going against them is way too many years of bad habits honed in cages- hard to unlearn. Its what has to be unlearned on a race track also.

 

I got lucky by having to start on bikes for over a decade. The few years I spent so much time with track cages that I didn't ride didn't undo all those early years of habits built.