R1200ST bar setbacks

[cogger]

Hi everyone

 

I'm considering getting a R1200ST but would have to make a couple of changes to fit me. Primarily, the bars would have to come back/up some (I would replace the windshield with something like a Prabellum). Is anyone aware of any bar setbacks other than the Verholen? They move the bars back about 65mm (about 2.5 inches), but I'm wodering if there might be another option that would move the bars back/up a little more. Maybe this is just a pipe dream because with the Verholen, you have to put a longer brake cable on, but the other cables may restrict any further setback. Basically what I'm trying to do is sit as upright as possible with more wind protection and end up with a touring bike that weighs considerably less than a R1200RT (also the looks of the ST make my heart go pitter pat). I also don't need or want all of the RTs features - ESA, electrically adjustable windshield, radio, etc. Thanks ahead of time.

[RickP]

um, I think you want a 1200GS (or wait for the boxer 1200R).

-RickP.

[tom collins]

take it from one who tried, you can not turn that kind of bike into an RT. if you want to do this for physical reasons such as wrist pain, it won't be enough. also, a bigger screen takes the air pressure off of your chest and that is what helps keep your weight from being on your wrists. i had the predecessor, RS with 4 inch setbacks and 1 inch rise with big parabellum screen, it was not enough in the end. you can search this site for the "yoda riding position" which some folks swear by that basically calls for acceptance of that position with methods for keeping weight off of your wrists, but after 2 RS's, I am an RT man now in spite of the weight. On that subject, I personally find the RT more nimble because of the wider higher bars that allow more leverage than the skinnier RS/ST type bars. The weight, wish it wasn't there, but as the man said --- GS.

good luck.

 

tom collins

[NakedRider]

I agree - go with the GS. I have both, an ST and a GS and the riding position is soooo different.

 

When I just don't want to lean over I take the GS. It can handle anything just fine.

[HexST]

If you make yourself sit up too straight up you will start compressing your spine. A bit of tilt forward is better for your back than compressing your spine while trying to hold yoursef up and fighting any wind.Thats why long dstance bicycles are leaned forward or completely recumbant.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

You are looking at the wrong bike! Plain and simple.

 

Not to put too fine a point on it, you want a Goldwing or an Electraglide. No matter how much you massage it, the ST just won't get there. You either have to learn (it's not hard) to ride with the riding position dictated by the ergos of the ST or you will be doomed to spending untold amounts of hard earned dollars with minimal satisfaction.

 

The ST is about as close, stock, to an ergonomically perfect motorcycle as you are going to find. You are just going to have to learn to unlearn all the basic crap you have in your head about what constitutes comfort. Chairs are not comfortable nor are couches. It is just what you have been trained for. When you come to learn what your body really needs and what comprises a good control position, you will see how great the ST really is.

[MarkF]

um, I think you want a 1200GS (or wait for the boxer 1200R).

-RickP.

 

While I am drooling over the idea of a new R1200R I love the ST. The pegs, seat and tank are perfect. The bars are just in the wrong place for me. I think some relocaters would be perfect for me. Like these

[NakedRider]

 

The ST is about as close, stock, to an ergonomically perfect motorcycle as you are going to find. You are just going to have to learn to unlearn all the basic crap you have in your head about what constitutes comfort. Chairs are not comfortable nor are couches. It is just what you have been trained for. When you come to learn what your body really needs and what comprises a good control position, you will see how great the ST really is.

 

In one paragraph nearly the best summary I've ever read regarding the ST. This bike has my favorite "riding position" of all time. It may not be "arm chair" comfortable but you are positioned perfectly for riding.

[tallman]

 

The ST is about as close, stock, to an ergonomically perfect motorcycle as you are going to find. You are just going to have to learn to unlearn all the basic crap you have in your head about what constitutes comfort. Chairs are not comfortable nor are couches. It is just what you have been trained for. When you come to learn what your body really needs and what comprises a good control position, you will see how great the ST really is.

 

In one paragraph nearly the best summary I've ever read regarding the ST. This bike has my favorite "riding position" of all time. It may not be "arm chair" comfortable but you are positioned perfectly for riding.

 

Well...

maybe, try riding that bike at 6'5" or taller.

The older RS's were a tight fit (literally) for thigh (hip to knee) into fairing.

The ST (which I thought would be my next boxer) is just too small in certain dimensions for me. Wish it wasn't as I love the bike.

Ergos are not always ideal for everyone. My GT fits me pretty well. Many find it uncomfortable. Plenty of thigh room for me.

The others are right. Trying to turn a bike into what it's not usually ends up with a bike that isn't what you or the designers were after.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Tim,

By this time, you should know that you just don't fit in most things. Chairs are too low, doorways not high enough, shower heads, all that and more. You long drinks of water are too far out on the edge of the bell curve.

 

BMW, and almost all bike designers, work around a standard set of dimensions that will fit the largest percentage of potential buyers. I, except for my weight and resulting girth, fit right in the middle of that profile and it was from there I based my comments in re ergos. Almost any good CADD system these days has a standard person as a template or add=in you can buy.

 

This whole thing goes back a long ways. For those who remember them the R-RS was the first of the ergonomically designed motorcycles. Before that, we all sat up and begged. I remember my first one and the feeling that my thumbs were gonna bump each other. I remember learning to get used to the riding position. I never looked back once I did as it is that positon that permits me to do the long days in the saddle that typify my riding. It is also reflected in my choice of bikes. Current stable all have the same, within inches, riding position. It just works for me.

 

To the original poster, I suggest, unless you are very short of arm, that you learn to use the ST in the manner it was designed. Read pretty carefully the discussions about the Master Yoda riding position. It is really aimed at control rather than comfort but, as it turns out, the same techniques and position result in the nearly ideal set of body dynamics for absorbing suspension motions.

 

I would suggest that you are feeling the stretch to the bars as being too far because you have not yet mastered bending at the hips and not the waist. Once you learn that, you will find the bars to be much closer than you thought. The good news is you can "practice" on a bar stool. Feet on rungs, butt scooted back a bit then bend at the hips, your more than half way there and the frosty beverage of your choice is that much closer to your mouth.

[MarkF]

I would suggest that you are feeling the stretch to the bars as being too far because you have not yet mastered bending at the hips and not the waist. Once you learn that, you will find the bars to be much closer than you thought. The good news is you can "practice" on a bar stool. Feet on rungs, butt scooted back a bit then bend at the hips, your more than half way there and the frosty beverage of your choice is that much closer to your mouth.

 

I can do that, while I'm saving up for my new R1200ST.

[wilsons]

Cogger,

 

I would really leave the ST bars as is, I'm about ready to lower my bars, I found my self leaning more forward to avoid lower spine issues on long rides, (I have bar risers on mine).

[wilsons]

Oh, also I will probably have a bigger windshield at some point, I love the wind just not on long trips.

 

Parabellum emailed these to me a few months ago, here you go:

 

 

 

 

[sardineone]

Cogger, I'm in support of your quest for the closer bar position. My last bike (Triumph Speed Triple) had the perfect reach forward to fit my frame. Slightly leaned forward into the wind. I'm very fond of my ST, but the bars are not an ideal fit for me as the reach is a bit too long for my arms. This rolls my shoulders forward a bit leading to a bit of burn on long rides. The new K1200GT has the right kind of adjustable bars as they come back to you as they rise. I will buy some set backs for my bars when available without messing with my fork tubes. Other than the personal fit of my bars, my ST is a great bike.

 

And I'm still getting unsolicited complements on it's looks. For me no matter how good the RT is, the ST had the look I preferred.

[wilsons]

Same here man, everyone I meet on the streets loves this bike!

[NakedRider]

Same here man, everyone I meet on the streets loves this bike!

 

It's funny, isn't it. The motorcycle media, especially in England, are just ripping this bike apart for the looks of the headlight. They judge the entire bike by that one item.

 

In person the feedback is quite different. Everyone that's seen my bike thinks it's beautiful. Everywhere. Motorcycle dealers, at work, in the neighborhood. Everywhere.

 

Go figure!

[cogger]

Thanks guys

 

Appreciate all of the input. The reason that I can't lean forward too much is headaches. I used to do a lot of bicycle riding and in that leaned forward position I ended up getting headaches every time I rode, so I had to give it up except for 1 - 2 hour rides (2 hours is pushing it). Now I don't want to sit bolt upright but just a little leaned forward. I'm going to the dealer in the next week to approximate where the Verholens would have me sitting, but I have a feeling it's not going to work. I've considered the RT,but I just can't get past the looks. Part of my problem also is a 31" inseam which pretty much eliminates a GS without some significant modifications. I guess I might end up with an FJR 1300 - bummer, I really wanted a BMW.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

At the risk of repeating myself yet again. The bicycle riding position forces you into leaning at the waist and a hump backed position which can, indeed, lead to headaches and neck pain as well as lower back probems. The position I advocate does none of that as your spine is free to assume its natural curvature and your head remains erect relative to you shoulders without haveing to tilt it back to see where you are going.

 

I forgot to look where you live before posting this but, perhaps you can get someone nearby to coach you, preferably on the bike. The position does not come naturally, actually it does, but, you have to overcome years upon years of learning to sit in chairs first. Takes a bit of training and effort. I routinely do 8 to 12 hour days in the saddle on bikes with an even more extreme riding position than that of the ST. I'm 63 years old and those who know me will attest that I'm no paragon of physical conditioning. A 31" inseam is more than enough for a GS, I managed a GS Adventure which has a 34" seat height for about 60K miles with never a problem.

[jaySTrider]

Part of my problem also is a 31" inseam which pretty much eliminates a GS without some significant modifications. I guess I might end up with an FJR 1300 - bummer, I really wanted a BMW.

 

Have you tried a 1200GS with the standard seat set in its lowest position? It really isn't a problem with a 31" inside leg, which is what I am. I could get both feet flat on the ground. I still prefer my ST to the GS though - a lot more fun and the lower back pain and numb bum I suffered on the GS has now gone!

[HexST]

I heard the spiegler was going to make a superbike set up for the ST. Their stuff is quality and this allows you to pick a bar bend that fits your needs.