What about using 50W H7 CREE LED BULBS????

[w2ge]

I found this on FleaBay.

 

What say you experts on this as a replacement bulb for our low beam bulbs that I seem to change every 1 1/2 years or so?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-50W-H7-472-CREE-LED-BULBS-WHITE-HEADLIGHT-HEAD-LIGHT-LAMP-CANBUS-ERROR-FREE-/281229152148

 

Thanks

[Guest Kakugo]

The technology has moved forward a lot in the past couple of years but it's not ready yet to build drop-in H-series replacements.

The main problem is obtaining directional light that mimics the original halogen light as close as possible to make the best of the reflective part of the headlight.

Given what I've seen recently we may see an acceptable LED drop in replacement for H-series lamps in two/three years, but at premium prices.

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Phil

 

About all you can do is try them. So far I haven't seen automotive LED conversion bulbs adding much positive.

 

Seeing as most of the forward projected light comes from light reflected from the headlight reflector I'm not sure how these bulbs will work with the stock BMW headlight reflectors (they might but then again might leave a lot to be desired)

 

One thing I don't see in the FleaBay ad is any mention of UV filtering or UV protection. I'm not sure if LED lighting is high UV producing or not so maybe no UV filtering needed.

 

It is probably worth doing some research to see (IF) LED headlight bulbs have a UV issue or not & if so (IF) the bulbs you are looking at are UV filtered. You don't want to discolor your bike's headlight lens's.

 

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

The technology has moved forward a lot in the past couple of years but it's not ready yet to build drop-in H-series replacements.

The main problem is obtaining directional light that mimics the original halogen light as close as possible to make the best of the reflective part of the headlight.

Given what I've seen recently we may see an acceptable LED drop in replacement for H-series lamps in two/three years, but at premium prices.

 

 

I agree. The lens in your motorcycle is designed to reflect light from a single source in a single location. On a halogen bulb it's where the filament sits. The bulbs you linked to have eight 5 watt sources of light distributed around the barrel and 2 in the tip. I'm not sure you'll get a proper pattern from the lens.

[w2ge]

Let me be Devils advocate, or an alternate point of view...

 

If you do not ride at night much, what difference will that make? (i.e. pattern)

 

DR, So I take what your saying is that the possible UV radiation from a bulb is much greater than UV exposure from the sun, and will discolor the lens?

[terryofperry]

LED chips emit very little UV unless designed to do so for a purpose. Cree is an excellent chip, maybe none better. Be advised, just because these may use Cree chips I do not think Cree manufactures H7 lamps, I could be wrong. If you Google it you will find many manufacturers making H7 lamps at different wattages, including 80 watts.

 

They may or may not do what you want.

 

Be well.

 

Terry

[dirtrider]

clip--)

 

DR, So I take what your saying is that the possible UV radiation from a bulb is much greater than UV exposure from the sun, and will discolor the lens?

 

Morning w2ge

 

Yes, well sort of anyhow--

 

Most auto manufactures coat the polycarbonate headlight lens with a very thin UV protection coating. This works good enough to protect the front from the sun's UV but only as long as the coating is present. Over time that coating deteriorates to the point of not working, or gets worn off by using auto polishes, or ???, or other semi abrasives on the headlight lens.

 

I'm not sure if the inside is coated or not (depending on the process & company involved I would imagine some are & some aren't). Even if coated the high intensity light is just inches from the lens so most OEM still use UV protected headlight bulbs to prevent discoloration.

 

On most OEM & better conventional headlight bulbs anyhow the bulb's glass also has a special UV protection applied to the bulb glass . Most of the better bulbs have this special UV coating on the glass to prevent lens discoloration. Some of the cheaper (or off road) aftermarket bulbs don't.

 

Just look on the bulb box as most of the better bulbs say they are UV protected.

 

Apparently the LED's don't have this issue according to Terry

 

[terryofperry]

 

From Cree

 

"Q: UV and/or IR emissions?

 

A: Unlike incandescent and fluorescent light sources, Cree LED Lighting Products produce virtually no light in the Ultraviolet (UV) or Infrared (IR) spectrums."

 

http://www.cree.com/Lighting/Tools-and-Support/FAQ-General

 

I have not personally tested for this so I quote the manufacturer. The IESNA and other organizations confirm this also. Samsung and Philips also. After extensive testing we chose Cree and just opened a school utilizing 98% LED lighting from interior classroom to Parking lot, to building, to stage. The only lights not LED are the Gymnasium High Bays.

 

I know nothing of the quality of the H7 in question, I know the quality of the Cree chip. There are chips labeled Cree that are knock offs, Philips and Samsung are fighting this problem also.

 

Probably more than you wanted to know and does not answer the OP's question.

 

I'm with DR, the housing and reflector are more important.

 

Be well.

 

Terry

[eddd]

Beyond what has already been mentioned the color listed in the specs is 7500. 7500 will produce a light that is quite blue, not white. A bright white light will be in the 5000 range.

[w2ge]

Beyond what has already been mentioned the color listed in the specs is 7500. 7500 will produce a light that is quite blue, not white. A bright white light will be in the 5000 range.

 

Thanks, that was another issue I meant to ask about.

 

I must say this thread has been very illuminating (no pun intended!) to me.

[g_frey]

Do not use bulbs much above 5000 K, the blue light makes some animals near stealth mode at night. This is especially true of Mule deer. I believe I used 30W 5200 K on my bike and it worked fine.

[DaveTheAffable]

Let me be Devils advocate, or an alternate point of view...

 

If you do not ride at night much, what difference will that make? (i.e. pattern)

I don't know, but even in daytime I want my headlight to give all it can to increase my conspicuity to other drivers. Not saying these do...or don't.

 

Why don't you test them for us all?

[w2ge]

I agree with conspicuous factor 100%. I have SKENE lights on my RT F&R, and wear Hi-Viz. (The de rigueur Power Ranger outfit of any self-respecting BMW rider! ;-)

 

Anyway, I've managed to get a quote from www.superbleds.com in China for H7 -Cree chip- 50W 5000K bulbs. 50,000 hour, with a 1 year warranty. M.O.Q. was 10 pairs.

 

I think I'm gonna go for it, the rest I think I can sell for a bit above my cost and not get hurt too bad. Might take a bit of time to get rid of them, me thinks.. FleaBay, etc..

 

I'm waiting on shipping cost.

[pedro cerveza]

I would contact Louis Preston at Electrical Connection http://electricalconnection.com/misc/contact_us.htm

He is very knowledgeable in LED replacements and a straight shooter.

[w2ge]

Thanks for the Contact, I have decided NOT to order the LED's from superbleds.

 

I'll give Lou P. a call, Thanks.

[pedro cerveza]

I found this on his web site:

http://electricalconnection.com/other-lighting/led-hl-h7.htm

[w2ge]

I saw that.. (and BTW, sent him a note, no response yet)

 

I can't imagine that would fit unless we totally left the covers off and mounted the power supply under the "dash". Even then I think you would need quite a bit of working room to install the fan, and that PVC(?) or ceramic chimney/holder with ring???

 

Looks like quality stuff..

 

Wonder if it would trigger BULB-OUT error light?

[Matts_12GS]

I just ordered a set of these for the GS, will let everyone know once I have them installed.

[w2ge]

I ve got a set, too.. Just waiting to install them.. I plan on first taking a picture from a distance of the stock bulbs, then replacing one, take a pic from same distance and then both.. take pic. Looking for CAN bus sending error and what the color, pattern, looks like. Not quite scientific, but... meets my standaard! ;-)

[lkraus]

I ve got a set, too.. Just waiting to install them.. I plan on first taking a picture from a distance of the stock bulbs, then replacing one, take a pic from same distance and then both.. take pic. Looking for CAN bus sending error and what the color, pattern, looks like. Not quite scientific, but... meets my standaard! ;-)

 

Please use a camera that can be set for manual exposure, and be sure to use the same settings for before and after. Most of the comparison pictures I see on the web are taken with auto settings which compensate for lighting differences.

 

Looking forward to seeing your results!

[w2ge]

I ve got a set, too.. Just waiting to install them.. I plan on first taking a picture from a distance of the stock bulbs, then replacing one, take a pic from same distance and then both.. take pic. Looking for CAN bus sending error and what the color, pattern, looks like. Not quite scientific, but... meets my standaard! ;-)

 

Please use a camera that can be set for manual exposure, and be sure to use the same settings for before and after. Most of the comparison pictures I see on the web are taken with auto settings which compensate for lighting differences.

 

Good point, will do that.

[walton66]

any update on this exercise?

[Matts_12GS]

any update on this exercise?

 

I have them in my GS and love them so far. Light is good, albeit a little directional, doesn't spread out quite like the halogen bulbs do. I don't notice it as much since I have a lot of Aux lighting, but it's a fact of life with them.

 

Rain, offroad and probably 3-4K miles on the road and no issues yet.

[w2ge]

I've got a pair waiting to be installed.. just can't seem to get the "gumption" to get my hands under there and install them.. yet!

 

I know... one of these days!!!

[EddyQ]

Anyway, I've managed to get a quote from www.superbleds.com in China for H7 -Cree chip- 50W 5000K bulbs. 50,000 hour, with a 1 year warranty. M.O.Q. was 10 pairs.

 

One thing to worry about is mantaining the correct LED temperature in order to get that really good 50,000hr. Most LEDs contain heat sinks and other thermal management things in order to keep the LEDs cool. Unlike a halogen, a hot LED will die really quick. LEDs are similar to silicon chips where deep within the device is usually limited to temperatures below 200C in order to get much life. Sounds hot, but it isn't since the thermal path off these chips is tiny and poor. 50W is a LOT of heat to get out and I don't think any car or motorcycle H7 lamp socket is designed well enought to remove that amount of heat unless temps are burning hot (like a halogen temp).

 

Maybe it has been designed better than it looks. But I have my doubts. Heat management is the most difficult thing when dealing with high power LEDs.

[KTsRidin]

So, in the Long-distance riding community LED bulbs are in great discussion (less draw on the electrical system and longer lasting), but the issue has been reliability and lumins... how do they hold up in comparison to HIDs and other options.

 

At the Iron Butt Association meet in a few weeks there will be LED bulbs on display. Here's a link to one that might just do the trick. It not only fits the H7, but has a heatsink. The issue is the boot modification needed to get the sink to fit.

 

http://tinyurl.com/H7-LED

 

[RTJohn]

I thought one of the big attractions of LEDs was that they weren't hot...? Imagine my surprise.

[biometrics]

I thought one of the big attractions of LEDs was that they weren't hot...? Imagine my surprise.

 

Me too! I thought they excelled at transforming electrical energy to LIGHT instead of Heat & Light ...

[lkraus]

I thought one of the big attractions of LEDs was that they weren't hot...? Imagine my surprise.

 

Me too! I thought they excelled at transforming electrical energy to LIGHT instead of Heat & Light ...

 

They do excel, compared to incandescent and HID lights, but 100% conversion of electric to light is still an elusive goal for useful amounts of light.

 

As light output goes up, the efficiency of the electric energy to light energy conversion drops (more heat) and there is more energy lost (more heat) from the electronics needed to drive the LED.

 

Greater than 100% conversion has been accomplished , but only at miniscule light levels.

 

[Selden]

Greater than 100% conversion has been accomplished , but only at miniscule light levels.

I read the abstract of the paper, but I still don't see how this is possible, as it sounds a lot like cold fusion or a perpetual motion machine.

 

Efficiency >100% seems like a basic violation of the first law of thermodynamics:

 

First law of thermodynamics: Heat is a form of energy. Because energy is conserved, the internal energy of a system changes as heat flows in or out of it. Equivalently, perpetual motion machines of the first kind are impossible.

 

Can someone explain where my thinking is wrong?

[mneblett]

As indicated by the paper, the LED is giving up some of its internal energy to generate additional electron motion (and resulting photons) -- in other words, the light output is being generated by the *combination* of the electrical energy input and the heat energy extracted from the LED material. Thus, the temperature of the LED decreases.

 

Perhaps a better way to look at it is that the LED is extracting heat from the surrounding environment (i.e., acting as a cooler) to supplement the electrical energy input.

 

As to "greater than 100% efficiency," that is not a correct use of the term from a physics or engineering point of view. As noted, the 1st law prevents that. Here, the amount of light output is *not* greater than the total energy input into the LED. Thus, comparing the light output to the electrical energy input -- while ignoring the environmental heat energy input -- is a misapplication of the definition of "efficiency."

[Huzband]

You brainyakes can argue all your electron motions, cold fusion, electric to light, etc. all you want.

 

All I know is I have LED's on the front of my GSA, & I CAN SEE WHERE I'M GOING AT NIGHT!!!

 

And that's all that matters to me.