Crappy in-dash GPS

[John Ranalletta]

Waze and Google Maps on my iPhone tend to be more useful, faster and accurate than the BMW in-dash unit.

 

Suggestion to car/phone makers: Enable smartphones to send phone screen content to in-dash screens via hardwire or bluetooth.

 

Advantages are obvious including lower initial cost, no upgrade costs, better response times, no hardware dependence, et al.

[Dave McReynolds]

Good idea. GPS's keep getting more functional and cheaper, and who wants to be locked into a 5 year old GPS, even if you still like the 5 year old car?

[Jake]

Honda to the rescue.

[John Ranalletta]

Very cool. If they only made a diesel.

 

Wonder why they restrict to Nokia maps. I've used the Nokia HERE map app on the iPhone and not found it to be as useful as Waze and Google.

 

I really like the Waze audible warnings about obstructions and LEO sitings, though it had me going 'round in circles trying to find the condo in Naples today.

[Boffin]

Very cool. If they only made a diesel.

 

They do, they make very good and economical diesels - I drive an European Accord (same as US Accura) 2.2 common rail diesel that averages over 50mpg UK (40mpg US) on England's clogged roads. On open free-flowing highways she manages 60mpg UK (48mpg US). They just don't export them to the USA.

 

Andy

[Bill_Walker]

Yup. They need a generalized display and touch control protocol between the phone and car. The problem is driven by the fact that personal electronics change so quickly, and may change several times during the time one person owns a car. Plus, automaker's in-dash GPSs are nearly all pretty bad. The one in my wife's Prius has the most infuriating, illogical user interface it has ever been my displeasure to use, as well as a nanny feature that prevents you (or your passenger) from doing pretty much anything with it while the car is moving. Another example: both of our 2008 cars support Bluetooth for making phone calls, but neither one supports playing music over Bluetooth. No updates are available.

 

I think Tesla is leading the way here, in the sense that they have software-driven telematics systems that can be updated over the life of the car. Hell, they can even update the car's operational firmware over the built in cell phone connection.

[philbytx]

Absolutely agree mate. And as far as importing them here, its a bloody shame Andy !

 

I'd love to buy a car with a small diesel, our Kia Optima has a small diesel in the UK but you can't get one here. Our's has a 2.4L petrol engine. Although it does get 34mpg highway, which is very good for here. I understand Mazda is bringing their small diesel in this year for the Mazda 6 but it amazes me that all the major vehicle manufacturers have great small diesels but we never see them. I always try to rent a diesel when visiting the rellies back in Blighty.

 

Jeep finally brought over their 3.0 V6 diesel (made by VM Motori) for the Grand Cherokee here in the U.S. and that made up our minds for us, as it gets 28mpg US on the highway. That will be our next vehicle, replacing Deb's Subie Forester.

 

 

 

 

 

[John Ranalletta]

You might be interested in TrueDelta's Jeep Cherokee owner data.

[Gary in Aus]

I purchased just prior to Christmas a MY14 LTZ Holden Colorado Dual Cab 4WD Utility 2.8 litre turbo diesel replacing my 3 year old Subaru Forester .

 

Subaru was a great vehicle and this was the 5th Subaru we had owned , never had any issues , very happy owner and amazed at the endurance of these vehicles.

 

I just needed something a little larger and a little longer ( carrying surf skis, needed utility tray etc}. If Subaru made this type/style/size of vehicle the I would still be using a Subaru product.

 

This also makes our private vehicles now all diesel {Audi A6 , Audi A7 and Audi Q7}

 

If Colorado meets "she who must be obeyed" approval the Q7 will be removed from list and possibly replaced with a convertible {my head says Audi A5 but heart is being drawn to Morgan Roadster with the V6 Ford motor , the one with the BMW V8 is nearly a hundred K dearer , too much price difference }

 

The Holden has a dash mounted system that utilises your phone for a range of services such as "bringo" {navigation system}, Pandora etc { see Holden website - Utility - Colorado for details}.

 

I have the latest Sony Experia mobile (90% of it's features are wasted on me as I will never use them but I like it's water , shock and dust resistance claims}. Plus the big screen which relates to BIG numbers and therefore in my case easy to read and use . It also fits in the zipper arm pocket of my leather motorcycle jacket which was an unexpected bonus.

 

I just placed the phone in the centre storage box of Colorado and tapped the screen on the dash when asked and "it" set itself up !!!!!.

 

I find the Audi MMI navigation system idiot proof as I can use it, the central knob is so easy to use and the navigation provides all the information I need. {all three Audi use same system}

 

A new A6 is being delivered mid January and it has the screen that rises from the dashboard when you turn the car on and goes back into the dash at the press of a button .

 

Purely a personal preference but I really like this as I have always not been to keen on the big "media" screens on the dash of most modern cars , 99% of the time they are just an enormous radio or cd dial !{with finger marks or smears on the screen}.

 

We replace these vehicles usually around 2 years from purchase date and have not experienced "systems" being out of date , mind you it seems that at soon as you buy something that uses technology , it is out of date before you buy it!

 

Navigation wise in a few short years we have gone from paper maps {which I love} to now having vehicles with amazing navigation systems , a Navman that I carry on the RT , a mobile phone that has a range of navigation systems available to it and are so easy to use.

 

Once again 99.99% of the time I don't use them as I usually know where I am and where I am going .

 

I liken this use of technology the electric seats in my cars Holden only has 6 way electric adjustment and no memories while the Audis have enough adjustments and memories that finding a seating position for Quasimodo is possible! However both my wife and I use same position and other than the odd use of massage function on A6 and A7 the seats are never adjusted after initial set up on day of delivery . A lot of money , technology and equipment that may not be earning it's cost.

 

A bit like power windows , with E-toll tags and climate control how often do people put windows up and down?

 

Most modern cars seem to make "helicopter" noises inside as soon as a window is lowered , my older daughters Mercedes CLS 250 Wagon is deafening with windows down and sounds like a scene from "Apocalypse Now" 4 year old grandson loves the noise!

 

The Holden Colorado used to have the bullet proof Isuzu diesel motor but the latest model is fitted with the AV Morini motor so will have to wait and see how it goes . The Isuzu diesel reliability is legendary and probably the best available but is now only available if you buy the Dmax.

 

The 2.8 litre CTDI Auto claims 147kw and 500nm of torque , have only covered 1,200 kilometres so far {trip to farm loaded with gear} and seems to go as expected . A completely different "diesel" experience to the Audis but it WAS half the price of the A6, half the price of the Q7 and near a third of the price of the A7.

[russell_bynum]

Yup. They need a generalized display and touch control protocol between the phone and car. The problem is driven by the fact that personal electronics change so quickly, and may change several times during the time one person owns a car. Plus, automaker's in-dash GPSs are nearly all pretty bad. The one in my wife's Prius has the most infuriating, illogical user interface it has ever been my displeasure to use, as well as a nanny feature that prevents you (or your passenger) from doing pretty much anything with it while the car is moving. Another example: both of our 2008 cars support Bluetooth for making phone calls, but neither one supports playing music over Bluetooth. No updates are available.

 

I think Tesla is leading the way here, in the sense that they have software-driven telematics systems that can be updated over the life of the car. Hell, they can even update the car's operational firmware over the built in cell phone connection.

 

Yup.

 

When we bought the Honda, I wanted Bluetooth...but the only way to get that is to get their nav system. Not only was I not interested in paying another thousand bucks for a nav system that I would literally never use (all built-in car GPS systems suck), but I didn't want all of the complication. In the end, I added an aftermarket BT unit for about a tenth the price of Honda's. It does everything I want it to do, including Bluetooth audio. Audio quality of music over BT isn't the best, but it's fine for audiobooks and phone calls.

 

One problem that the car peeps would have in trying to build a screen that would integrate with the phone is not only do things change really fast (as you said), but there appear to be no standards...and the cell companies seem to randomly violate what standards there are for no apparent reason.

 

I think eventually we'll get "there" (where you can pair your car to your phone and use the car's display as an extension of the phone's display, but we're certainly not there yet.

 

The nanny stuff also drives me bonkers. The Inlaws have a new accord and you can't set the frigging clock while you're driving. Whoever thought of that should be beaten to death very slowly.

[russell_bynum]

A new A6 is being delivered mid January and it has the screen that rises from the dashboard when you turn the car on and goes back into the dash at the press of a button .

 

One more thing to break...most likely in the half-extended position so that it is both really annoying and totally useless.

 

 

I liken this use of technology the electric seats in my cars Holden only has 6 way electric adjustment and no memories while the Audis have enough adjustments and memories that finding a seating position for Quasimodo is possible! However both my wife and I use same position and other than the odd use of massage function on A6 and A7 the seats are never adjusted after initial set up on day of delivery . A lot of money , technology and equipment that may not be earning it's cost.

 

I have mixed feelings on that. Our Fit's seats are manual...slide fore/aft and recline. We never mess with the recline (though it would be nice if you had to sleep in the car), so it's just fore-aft. I have no complaints. Other other cars have multi-way power seats...one with memory and one without. The one without memory drives me bonkers because I'll get in and it's in Lisa's position...and takes me forever to get comfortable. I guess my preference is...I'm perfectly happy with, and prefer simple manual seats, but if they're multi-way power seats, I want memory.

 

A bit like power windows , with E-toll tags and climate control how often do people put windows up and down?

 

I do...all the time. But then I like driving with the windows down.

 

Most modern cars seem to make "helicopter" noises inside as soon as a window is lowered , my older daughters Mercedes CLS 250 Wagon is deafening with windows down and sounds like a scene from "Apocalypse Now" 4 year old grandson loves the noise!

 

For us, that seems to be the back windows...and usually only when the back windows are open and the fronts are closed. Annoying.

[szurszewski]

 

Most modern cars seem to make "helicopter" noises inside as soon as a window is lowered , my older daughters Mercedes CLS 250 Wagon is deafening with windows down and sounds like a scene from "Apocalypse Now" 4 year old grandson loves the noise!

 

For us, that seems to be the back windows...and usually only when the back windows are open and the fronts are closed. Annoying.

 

I can already hear the clicks of an engineer's keyboard explaining why I'm wrong, but I'm going to say this anyway

 

I believe that's due to cavitation. I find that it happens most noticeably with the the moonroof completely opened and all the windows up. The last two or three cars I've had with moonroofs had a "comfort" (<--BMW's word for it) position just short of full open, and that position was much quieter than full open. Usually just cracking the rear windows a bit solves the issue as well. I haven't had a car that does that with all the windows down though - maybe I just don't have a new enough/nice enough ride

[russell_bynum]

It's got to be a nightmare trying to account for that sort of thing. You spend a bunch of time tuning the shape of the car for aerodynamics and a quiet ride...and then some yahoo cuts a bunch of big variable-sized holes in your masterpiece.

[John Ranalletta]

One more thing to break...

Took the 335d in for oil change to an independent BMW specialty shop. He will pull error codes are a part of the routine. The only error code indicated low windscreen washer fluid level.

[Gary in Aus]

Concerning GPS /media functions the top of the range {equals most expensive} Holden Colorado does not come with a CD player ? It has USB ports, Ipod connectors , bluetooth etc but no cd.

 

According to my 23 year old daughter and her compatriots CD's are so "last century" and becoming a thing of the past!!!!!!

 

They showed me how to "rip" CD's to a USB so I now have enough recordings on a USB to last from Sydney to Adelaide. A problem for me is that I will lose them , they are so small.

 

My 1 USB replaces about 18 cd's and I was given about 5 USB for Christmas

 

Further to previous post , the new A6 is at dealers and last night I was cleaning out the old one , usual "essentials" you carry in every nook and cranny , interesting what you find or have forgotten about, and never used.

 

As removing CD's from stacker in glovebox I "discovered" that the combine DVD player and Cd stacker also has 2 USB ports and 2 SD card ports and a Ipod connection !!! Have owned this car since Jan 2012 and didn't know it had these facilities {not that I would have used them}.

 

Have never played a DVD in the car.

 

Over dinner last night ,the question was asked about how often do you open car window and consencus amongst daughter and friends is "never" and why would you?

 

Sun and wind damage was raised as major issue as was noise.

 

The Cancer Council sells "sleeves" that you slide over your arm if you are driving with window down and arm resting on door edge/ exposed to sun.

Identified as a problem with truckdrivers etc who spend lot's of time in vehicle with an arm exposed to the sun , apparently prevents lots of significant skin damage and surgery/amputations due to melanomas etc.

 

I know I have had far more skin cancers burnt off my right arm than my left and this may be due to many years of driving with window down and arm exposed {when cars didn't have air conditioners and while attempting to look and be "cool"}.

 

As to the "helicopter" noises , I don't think modern cars are designed to be driven with windows down , as suggested ,it probably plays havoc with drag co-effients , fuel consumption and obviously comfort levels.

 

Bring back the quarter vent window !!!!!!!!

[Gary in Aus]

Another thing to break ?

 

The Audi's display "engine oil life expectancy" as a percentage figure and just realised the Holden does as well!

 

We don't follow 15,000 klm service as per manufacturer but have oil, filter and air filters changed every 10,000 klms so have never seen below 60% "oil life expectancy" .

 

Also A6 and A7 have a button on the dashboard beside the media unit that opens the glovebox .There isn't a button on the glove box itself so if you didn't know about this button , good luck with opening glove box.

 

 

[Gary in Aus]

"One more thing to break...most likely in the half-extended position so that it is both really annoying and totally useless."

 

This new A6 will be the 11th Audi we have owned and fingers crossed or whatever we have never had a warranty or service issue.

 

Only concerns were the tyres on the 2010 models just didn't last , all fours tyres were worn at 20,000 kilometres .Quattro usually has even wear ,dealer put wear down to extremely soft compound tyres fitted from factory and went halves on new tyres replacement cost . Happy with this as fair compromise.This was for A6 and Q7.

 

Usually don't have to replace tyres due to only having vehicle for around 50,000 klms on average.

 

 

[russell_bynum]

According to my 23 year old daughter and her compatriots CD's are so "last century" and becoming a thing of the past!!!!!!

 

Absolutely. I have no use for them anymore (at least...not for music.) Everything's either on an iPod or on a smartphone. I used to carry a huge CD case in the car. It took up a ton of space and only held a fraction of my music. Switching albums was a big undertaking. Now we've got ALL of our music on an iPod that fits easily in the glove compartment and it's easy to switch albums, artists, genres, playists, etc. Huge improvement.

 

My 1 USB replaces about 18 cd's and I was given about 5 USB for Christmas

 

That's a small USB drive. On a 64GB USB drive, you should be able to store somewhere north of 31,000 songs. (43 days of music...assuming songs are an average of 2 minutes long.) Larger storage devices (like the larger ipods) can hold even more.

 

Over dinner last night ,the question was asked about how often do you open car window and consencus amongst daughter and friends is "never" and why would you?

 

That's sad. I don't like window down on the freeway due to the noise, but I view the freeway as a necessary evil anyway...I'd much rather be on surface streets with the windows down. We spend too much time cooped up in climate-controlled cocoons.

 

 

Bring back the quarter vent window !!!!!!!!

 

[mickeym3]

My 2012 335i has the technology package and using the NAV is very convenient because when you set a destination the next turn information shows on the HUD. I can change my music presets, make calls, glance at speed (and cruise set speed) all without taking my eyes off the road. HUD is by far the handiest feature I've ever gotten on a car.

 

Don't get me started on diesel, they make entirely too much sense. My wife's GL350 Bluetec averages 27mpg and weighs 6000lbs. Tows a trailer great too!

[racer7]

The OP picked a bad comparison point. The BMW cage gps may be the very worst ever sold- it is surely the worst I've used.

It is far too slow for entry, submerged in an illogical IDrive mess, often computes obviously wrong or stupid routes, no way to simply/cheaply update, etc. Even the SO laughs at its lack of brains and its in her car.

 

It makes the best case for buying ultimately disposable $100 Garmins that I can imagine. I have never personally purchased a car maker supplied GPS and never will- way too limited, too easily outdated, ludicrously priced, etc etc

 

OTOH, one of my cages is also diesel. A Passat with 2L turbodiesel. Gets just a fraction of a tick under 40 mpg in overall use, well over 40 mpg highway- despite being the largest 4 door in the class and hasn't broken anything in the couple years I've had it. 240 lb-ft is enough - its not a track toy- and the 700+ mile range on a tank is sweet, gas stations not being on my preferred destination list.

 

Info for those who still think turbos are unreliable. A diesel has a much lower EGT than a gas motor so is a natural for turbocharging. Lifespans of the turbo well over 100K miles are normal now and twice that is possible. Stock turbos are also reasonably priced service parts these days (unlike my ball bearing race turbos which are a very different design and carry list prices of $3-4K)

[Jake]

OTOH, one of my cages is also diesel. A Passat with 2L turbodiesel.

 

I'm in the midst of an economical commuter car search for 27K/year long-term duty, and the Passat TDI made the short list. Car shopping isn't fun. Being old school doesn't help, not impressed that "infotainment" systems are being touted as the tipping point feature one should consider between cars. Ridiculous. Audio/Nav buttons are now spread all over the dash, making aftermarket improvements less and less possible.

 

Seats are just not comfortable anymore - less and less thigh support for those of us without 26.2 stickers on our hatches . B pillars are where my left elbow wants to rest. Tried the Jetta Sportwagen (the dog does about 12K miles/year with us) but the helm is just too cramped. The Passat is much better, great room in the back seat, but a sedan is not necessarily dog friendly. Sure, a Fit would get the job done, but that makes too much sense, and they are a bit cramped too. I want my old Scirocco back. Recaros. No not like the Focus/Fiesta ST Recaros, but real old school roomy, comfy, grippy Recaros.

 

The Golf TDI is probably the leader. Good enough seating for me, large hatch for the pup. The 2013 is the last year for the cast iron-based TDI as they are going to aluminum next year in the pursuit of lighter weight and fuel savings (and, ahem, cost savings). Mercedes did that with their diesels in the late 80's and the aluminum motors had some real problems for a while, and their cast iron motors seem to still be puttering along even now.

 

Do they still sell anything with a radio delete option?!!

[russell_bynum]

Do they still sell anything with a radio delete option?!!

 

I believe Lotus still does with the Elise/Exige.

 

 

I'd like power window delete, power lock delete, and power steering delete (on smaller cars where there's really no reason to have it in the first place.) Plus TPMS and traction control/stability control delete, of course.

[racer7]

I'd do the same. Most everything that breaks on modern stuff is electrical/electronic- the less of it the better.

 

For example, the SOs F-150 has broken every (4 of 4) electric window lift. Its also an obnoxious gas guzzling pig. And the idea of taking its 6000 lbs offroad with its 4WD is laughable to anyone who's had to get a vehicle out of mudhole.

[DiggerJim]

Lifespans of the turbo well over 100K miles are normal now and twice that is possible. Stock turbos are also reasonably priced service parts these days

Except when they're not. My Jetta TDI had it's turbo blow at 32K. VW blamed it on an excessively snowy winter and the overuse of sand on the roads (sand got past the air filter despite it not being a replaceable item until 40K and the 24K service didn't show any issues).

[sgendler]

Waze and Google Maps on my iPhone tend to be more useful, faster and accurate than the BMW in-dash unit.

 

Suggestion to car/phone makers: Enable smartphones to send phone screen content to in-dash screens via hardwire or bluetooth.

 

Advantages are obvious including lower initial cost, no upgrade costs, better response times, no hardware dependence, et al.

 

I'm under NDA but, yeah, good idea.

[Bill_Walker]

I was reading some stuff about new car-related announcements at the Consumer Electronics Show, and at least one manufacturer (forgot who) is planning to use their built-in telematics system (think OnStar or similar) to keep the maps on their navigation system up-to-date, and/or to download them as needed like your phone. So even though the UI may still suck, at least the maps will be current. I hope they don't lose the ability for them to work where there's no cell coverage.

[russell_bynum]

I was reading some stuff about new car-related announcements at the Consumer Electronics Show, and at least one manufacturer (forgot who) is planning to use their built-in telematics system (think OnStar or similar) to keep the maps on their navigation system up-to-date, and/or to download them as needed like your phone. So even though the UI may still suck, at least the maps will be current. I hope they don't lose the ability for them to work where there's no cell coverage.

 

If that means I have to pay for that service...no thanks.

[sgendler]

Your in-dash system is not going to be separate from your phone. Your in-dash system is simply going to be a remote interface to your phone. You are no more likely to have to pay to subscribe to map data than you are to do so on your phone today.

[russell_bynum]

Your in-dash system is not going to be separate from your phone. Your in-dash system is simply going to be a remote interface to your phone. You are no more likely to have to pay to subscribe to map data than you are to do so on your phone today.

 

That's how it should be.

[Bill_Walker]

Your in-dash system is not going to be separate from your phone. Your in-dash system is simply going to be a remote interface to your phone. You are no more likely to have to pay to subscribe to map data than you are to do so on your phone today.

 

That's how it should be.

 

It looks like Honda has you covered in the 2015 Fit:

"The last and best feature of the car is Honda's GPS solution: it's your phone. You can order the car with navigation for something around $1500, or you can download the HondaLink app from Honda for $59.99 and get something better. With the app, the car will display your phone's GPS on its seven-inch display. That means as you upgrade your phone, you'll be upgrading your GPS, too."

Jalopnik

[russell_bynum]

Your in-dash system is not going to be separate from your phone. Your in-dash system is simply going to be a remote interface to your phone. You are no more likely to have to pay to subscribe to map data than you are to do so on your phone today.

 

That's how it should be.

 

It looks like Honda has you covered in the 2015 Fit:

"The last and best feature of the car is Honda's GPS solution: it's your phone. You can order the car with navigation for something around $1500, or you can download the HondaLink app from Honda for $59.99 and get something better. With the app, the car will display your phone's GPS on its seven-inch display. That means as you upgrade your phone, you'll be upgrading your GPS, too."

Jalopnik

 

Unless that app is universal across all three smartphone OS's, I'm not interested.

[John Ranalletta]

Your in-dash system is not going to be separate from your phone. Your in-dash system is simply going to be a remote interface to your phone. You are no more likely to have to pay to subscribe to map data than you are to do so on your phone today.

 

That's how it should be.

 

Carplay

[russell_bynum]

Your in-dash system is not going to be separate from your phone. Your in-dash system is simply going to be a remote interface to your phone. You are no more likely to have to pay to subscribe to map data than you are to do so on your phone today.

 

That's how it should be.

 

Carplay

 

Cool. Now we just need that functionality from a company that isn't made up entirely of douchenozzles.

[Jake]

douchenozzles.

I don't even need to ask from whom you picked that one up!

[russell_bynum]

douchenozzles.

I don't even need to ask from whom you picked that one up!

 

He made kick-ass BBQ.