New Car: What percentage off?

[Kathy R]

I know this is a very general question, as the answer depends on many factors. I'm looking at a new car. I've seen them advertised for 10% off. Right now, my localish dealer's first price to me was <4% off listed retail (vehicle, options and destination fee) but promises to come back to me today with a "much better price". I suspect there is much more fat in the options, but overall I would be happy if I got 10% off the total Build price. Should I be?

 

Thank you in advance.

 

[Guest Kakugo]

As you said it depends on a multitude of factors.

Around here 10% used to be a very big deal, the kind you only got if you bought a car nobody wanted in the first place or you were an excellent customer. Now however dealers are literally swamped in excess stock and will go much lower than 10% to shift cars without too much haggling.

 

This may not apply to the US, but I've also noticed different dealers have different ways to deal with customers paying in cash or financing their purchase.

Generally speaking until 2009 or so you got a bigger rebate (if you got it all) if you financed the purchase: this was because dealers were "rewarded" by manufacturers for each new car loan they "sold".

The trend now has shifted and cash payers are usually offered a bigger rebate because, plainly put, dealers need the money right away to stay afloat and, with so many bad debtors around, the costs of financing have increased for all parts involved.

 

You are also correct in saying there's more fat to be trimmed on options: at least this is the case with BMW. They will usually sell the car full price (or with a small rebate) but then give you a big rebate on extras if they don't throw them in for free.

 

 

[philbytx]

Kathy,

 

Depends on what you are looking at and what year.

We are in the throes of ordering a new 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee and our local dealer offered us $100 OVER INVOICE and told us it was a great deal. I then joined a Jeep Forum and did my due diligence and discovered there is a Jeep dealer in Houston that gives great internet deals.

 

I was given his contact information and he gave me a firm quote (in writing) of 5.5 percent UNDER INVOICE and a complete OTD no haggle price. You just go pick it up when delivered. This effectively saved us just under $3k vs our local dealer for a 4 hour drive. On the Jeep board, there are guys that travel from other states (from Minnesota even!) to do business with him.

 

Whatever car you are looking at, join a good forum and most will always have the "what did you pay for your xxxx". This will give you some idea of the current market price in your (and other!) areas. It may well behoove you do look at another state and, if the price is right, fly in, pick it up and drive home !

 

Also, manufacturers give hefty dealer discounts/rebates for last year's models.

 

 

 

 

[CVA-42]

The short answer is that it "depends" upon a lot of things like the brand, the model, the dealer, the time of the month, and the time of the year among other things. When I was shopping for a new vehicle last year and had it narrowed down to a particular model, I subscribed to Consumer Reports' buying service which tells you exactly what the dealer paid for that vehicle and also what holdbacks and other incentives he is getting that he is not going to tell you about. I'm not entirely confident that all the figures were completely accurate but it seemed a good starting point and a heck of a lot better than shooting in the dark and going into the dealership completely blind. There are other services out there that will do the same. One of CU's main points is that once you have this info, you then should bargain UP from that number and never DOWN from whatever number the dealer throws at you. In my case the sticker price (LOL here) was around $32,500 and the dealer's first quote to me was around $28,500. In the end, his final quote was something like $25,300 with him agreeing to find the exact trim level and color that I wanted. So that was better than 22 percent off the "sticker" price and also turned out to be a good bit lower than what CU had reported to be what others were paying and also lower than what they considered to be a good deal for that particular vehicle. Just remember that the "sticker" price and what is presented as the "invoice" price are manufactured numbers that mean very little.

[mickeym3]

Kathy, philbytx is right on; it really helps to know exactly what kind of car you're considering since there is a tremendous difference in margin between the manufacturers. I'm pretty merciless with the sales staff when car buying unless I know for certain I'm getting a good deal based on lots of internet searches. Virtually every make/model has a following and you can glean a lot from looking on their respective forum(s). Of course, the prevailing trends would indicate that Subaru's are hot (BRZ is my next 'target') while comparable models in a competitor's line can be more discounted.

 

Don't be afraid to 'low ball' them and be willing to walk out the door.

[Kathy R]

Great information. Thank you ALL.

 

2014 Volvo xc70T6

 

So far, one dealer came back at <4% off "retail list" with the options I want, including Destination Charges. On top of that is Tax and DMV (registration/tags). He's coming back today with another price. From what I can see on the internet another dealer, within 1 hour of me, is offering 10% off. I'm not adverse to flying in to drive it home, if it makes sense.

 

I've looked on carsdirect.

I'm going to research CU

 

Again, thanks for all the great information.

 

Phil - I really liked that Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit. My local Jeep dealer's first offer was ~5% off listed retail on a 2014. I haven't pursued it further. If I can find the xc70T6 at the right price I'm going that direction.

[EffBee]

I use an online service like Edmunds.com to get the actual dealer invoice. You can also learn what the dealer pays for the accessory packages you might want to add to your car. Also, realize that the dealer has "holdback" which is usually between 2-3% of the invoice amount. This is held back for him/her by the manufacturer/distributor, and is usually paid quarterly.

 

Once I get as close as possible to the dealer's bare-bones cost, I can figure out what might be the lowest price the dealer will take. This can vary based on how long the car has been on the lot (the dealer pays "flooring costs" to the bank, which has financed the purchase from the manufacturer). Flooring costs is basically interest, so the longer the car's been on the lot, the more the dealer has invested. Dealers will cost-average flooring, but they're more eager to get rid of the older inventory than the newer.

 

As for what to offer the dealer, other factors such as supply/demand, color and frankly the dealer's need to turn a specific profit on the front end all come into play. But whatever you save, you will eventually pay for it in other ways, such as service or parts prices. A dealership is a business, after all, and they need to make money in order to stay open and grow to serve you better. Generally, though, I find that 2-3% above bare-bones cost is about the minimum, absent any manufacturer incentives.

[Selden]

"It depends" indeed. Buying a car is one of most people's least-favorite activities.

 

If you want to deal with a local dealer, set up your financing in advance, then go to the dealer on January 30. They tend to get desperate to make quota at the end of the month. By going in on the 30th, you are giving them 24 hours to make a deal, and by having your own financing already lined up, they can't flim-flam you on that. It wouldn't hurt to check internet pricing for comparisons, as you still may get a quote that comes under your local dealer's, and can be used for negotiating.

 

 

 

[4wheeldog]

My standard practice is to do my shopping to determine what exactly it is that I want, model, options, color. Then I do the internet shopping deal, where I tell several dealers with online services, exactly what I want, and get their prices.

 

That said, my last car (A Subaru bought in 2012) I got through the Costco buying deal. Not only was the price the same as the dealer bid, but Costco gave me a $500 gift card for doing the deal. I had to drive an hour to pick it up, but the 25 mile dealer was not willing to deal at all.

 

(The Costco deal wound up about 8% under invoice.)

[roadscholar]

then go to the dealer on January 30. They tend to get desperate to make quota at the end of the month. By going in on the 30th, you are giving them 24 hours to make a deal

 

Most close down the books on the afternoon of the 1st, sometimes mid day on the 2nd. If you walk in there a few hours before that they'll almost give it to you.

 

You do know how to tell if a car salesman is lying, right?

 

 

 

His lips are moving.

[Kathy R]

Grateful for the insight.

 

His first number was just shy of 4% off mfg list (pie in the sky) price

His latest is 5.75% off pie in the sky.

This is going to take a while.

[mickeym3]

If you're definitely going Volvo then use USAA discount if you're eligible or COSTCO. I had a very promising deal on a motorcycle through COSTCO ($1000 better than I had done anywhere else) but alas the call of the RT was stronger. Scandinavian delivery sounds tempting (but not till July)!

[MikeRC]

Kathy:

 

There are a number of sources that can give you the "dealer cost" and best deals as noted in previous discussions. You can go in armed with that info, but there are some other important issues.

 

Volvo is a pretty niche brand, and I would think that people who want them really want them. So I wouldn't be surprised if they don't have as much discount as other brands/models. Some models that are in the initial part of their product cycle are in higher demand and don't have as much discount. In general models that are in the middle of their product cycle (2-3 years) will have they highest possible discount.

 

The dealer will never sell a product for less then they "must" get, they are in business and simply trying to stay in business.

 

I view a car as a tool so I am never committed to one individual model or even manufacturer. If I'm looking for a mid-sized SUV they are all "worth" the same amount to me once I adjust for depreciation (in dollars, not percentages), service costs, gas costs and insurance costs. I make that clear when I am shopping. I also make it clear that I value (or discount) the dealer on service ratings and convenience for me to get service work done. I am also willing to only make small moves on my offer once I make it. On two occasions I have walked out on dealers when we were still over $1000 apart between my offer and their "best deal". On both occasions the dealers phoned me back within 48 hrs to ask me if my offer was still open.

 

A little over a year ago my daughter needed a new vehicle (her 15 year old Ford Contour was having severe electrical issues). She had gone out and done her shopping and subscribed to one of the wholesale cost services and felt she was ready to deal. At the time there were some manufacturer incentives (New Grad Discount, end-of-year) as well. She was appalled at my approach to buying the car (make your best offer first, then have the incentives paid back directly to her) but ended up getting the car for about $1750 less then what she thought was the best price. She learned to make the purchase a non-emotional issue.

 

Mike Cassidy

 

[tallman]

Some predict Volvo will be out of the US market in the next few years if sales don't improve.

 

We bought one years ago as the girls' first vehicle and both daughters used it for several years each.

 

Like the product, wonder about the future...

 

Comparison, cash, timing, are tools to secure good price.

[roadscholar]

Grateful for the insight.

 

His first number was just shy of 4% off mfg list (pie in the sky) price

His latest is 5.75% off pie in the sky.

This is going to take a while.

 

Hey, it was the 70's

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plNsdvWHIFo

[upflying]

 

2014 Volvo xc70T6

 

Have you considered the Subaru Outback 3.6R? Good deals on those right now.

[philbytx]

FYI - If you bought that Jeep GC from the Houston dealer, you could get a great price, fly down and take a quick vacay driving it home LOL!

 

His price for a loaded GC Overland 4x4 with the Diesel engine option, Advanced Tech package and Off Road Adventure II package was just over $52k out the door!

 

Keep beating them up luv !!!

 

 

 

[Skywagon]

This guy doesn't appear to be in your area, but you could probably write him and get an idea. He is on local radio here every weekend. http://www.carprousa.com/

 

I bought 2 new cars a year ago. One is a Lexus and the other a Tahoe. Lexus started out at list and after a ridiculous offer from me to them, we finally settled on 13.4% off of list...and it is very popular car here. Service has been unlike anything I have ever experienced. They will come get you and give you a new loaner just for an oil change.

 

My Tahoe - a very popular car in Texas....7% off of list. Service....average at best. Hybrids...they can't give them away here. GM makes them have one in stock, but they sit forever.

 

YMMV....for what it is worth, I go in with exactly what I want. I tell the dealer I am buying this car from someone today...All service the same so don't want to hear how you are better....Best price wins. Friendly, not a priXXk Then I go to a handful of dealers here and buy from the lowest price. I offer them even a little less than their offer e.g. their offer - $5,000.. Most will price a car for you, some won't

 

P.S. I grew up in a car family. My dad owned both GM and Ford dealerships so a little familiar. Best time to buy, end of year - for current year, end of quarter, end of month. Don't be afraid to ask to speak to the owner. You will get the general manager as owner out fishing. General Manager incented to move units, will give best price. Don't do the back and forth...ask to have him/her come into room with you. Be sure GM, not sales manager.

 

Now the problem is I want to buy a 2014 BMW Motorcycle and it scares me to death...

[John Ranalletta]

Go to True Car for a good estimate of what dealers are asking in your market for a specific car. I used True Car 2 years ago to buy our WRX. After getting quotes from talking heads at local dealers, a dealer 100 miles aways quoted lower, guaranteed price via Truecar.

 

Consumer Reports also has a service for subscribers.

[Dave McReynolds]

FYI - If you bought that Jeep GC from the Houston dealer, you could get a great price, fly down and take a quick vacay driving it home LOL!

 

His price for a loaded GC Overland 4x4 with the Diesel engine option, Advanced Tech package and Off Road Adventure II package was just over $52k out the door!

 

Keep beating them up luv !!!

 

 

 

I should probably know this, being a CPA, but I don't. If you buy a car out of your home state, do you end up paying sales tax twice on it?

[Kathy R]

This may not apply to the US, but I've also noticed different dealers have different ways to deal with customers paying in cash or financing their purchase.

 

I used to always say I was trading in a car and I was financing. Then when I got my price I told them no trade and I'm paying cash. That used to result in a better deal. Nowadays, I'm not so sure, and you bring up a point that I wonder about.

 

My Dad used to bring one loose check and write on it the number he'd pay. After numerous dances they'd take it. He had a spare check in his other pocket just in case, but he said he never had to use it. It's all a poker game, still. I'm not a poker player, so much as a straight shooter. In the past I've brought a man with me, to distract the dealer. "Look over there, talk to him". When in fact I was making the decision. It's sad but, in my experience, they don't as easily deal to a woman.

 

Just remember that the "sticker" price and what is presented as the "invoice" price are manufactured numbers that mean very little.

 

Many good points in your post. I call these numbers PITS (pie in the sky)

 

Don't be afraid to 'low ball' them and be willing to walk out the door.

 

Again, lots of good stuff there. The offset is I love seeing the money sitting there and the Mighty Buick is alive and well.

 

I use an online service like Edmunds.com to get the actual dealer invoice.

 

Thanks for all the good stuff and that suggestion. I checked out the numbers there. Looks like the two Dealers I've talked to are not too far off.

 

They tend to get desperate to make quota at the end of the month. By going in on the 30th, you are giving them 24 hours to make a deal,...

 

I had initially started seriously working on this Dec 11th with every intention of using the end of Dec as my ace, but the salesman I was working with dropped the ball and a few weeks went by before I asked the Sales Mgr if they were going out of business or what? I'm in no hurry now.

 

(The Costco deal wound up about 8% under invoice.)

 

Sweet!

The nearest Costco is in Canada

 

You do know how to tell if a car salesman is lying, right?

 

Where do they find these people? Right out of central casting I tell you.

 

Hey, it was the 70's

 

I'm not proud. I think I still have a pantsuit somewhere.

 

If you're definitely going Volvo then use USAA discount if you're eligible. Scandinavian delivery sounds tempting (but not till July)!

 

Not eligible.

I looked at that Buy and Fly, but decided it really wasn't a draw for me.

 

I view a car as a tool so I am never committed to one individual model or even manufacturer.

 

Good info, thanks Mike. Yeah, well, I am all over the place when it comes to car ownership. If you saw my list of cars owned you'd think I was a little hard to peg. In this instance, I have shopped for make and model for a little over a year. My criteria was met best by a wagon, lower to the ground than an SUV for my elderly father, but large enough for a long legged dog. And I had to like the skin and feel pampered. After driving a bunch of vehicles I ended up happily desiring the xc70T6. I'm looking to own for 8-10 years and I want safety and comfort when traveling. It's not perfect though, and that is why I'm not moving real fast.

 

Like the product, wonder about the future...

 

A major bummer to think about. So I won't Nobody makes the car I'm looking to buy. I think it's me.

Thanks Tim

 

Have you considered the Subaru Outback 3.6R? Good deals on those right now.

 

Absolutely, Bob. I live in Subie Country. It's too tall for Dad and the dog. The back seat is not deep enough for the dog. Loved the gas mileage and that tranny too. (not to mention resale)

 

FYI - If you bought that Jeep GC from the Houston dealer, you could get a great price, fly down and take a quick vacay driving it home LOL!

 

Love it but it's too dang tall for Dad and Nigel. The back seat was perfect for the dog. The salesman remarked that he couldn't believe I was "buying a $xx car for the dog!"

 

 

Keep beating them up luv !!!

 

I'm not a good buyer, but I'm trying, sweetie!

 

Don't be afraid to ask to speak to the owner.

 

Funny, when the first salesman dropped the ball and I politely contacted the sales manager I was met at the door by the owner. Turns out he knows my father. It's a good thing. He gave me his card and said they'd take care of me. We haven't gone very far yet on pricing, but I hope to buy from them, if the price is right.

 

Now the problem is I want to buy a 2014 BMW Motorcycle and it scares me to death...

 

When I bought my 02 RT new I negotiated well. A year later when I ran into the salesman (the dealership had gone out of business) he "blamed people like" me for putting them under? As a sales person I knew there was nothing I could do to get through to him, but I hope he's not still stuck in that paper bag.

 

Go to True Car for a good estimate of what dealers are asking in your market for a specific car. Consumer Reports also has a service for subscribers.

 

Thanks John. I will check TrueCar out. I have already done so on CR.

 

Gosh, this is work. Thank you al for your help

 

 

 

 

 

 

[moshe_levy]

I should probably know this, being a CPA, but I don't. If you buy a car out of your home state, do you end up paying sales tax twice on it?

 

Nope. Got 2 Volts from out of state in 2012, no problems.

 

My advice: Frequent some Volvo forums. Usually there is a section for dealers to advertise good deals. In my case, some coworkers expressed interest in the Volt after seeing mine, which I bought locally. On the Volt forum they were offering leases that were literally 30% off what we could get in New Jersey in 2012 - which I only discovered after I bought mine locally! So we made 2 deals with the out of state dealer from the Volt forum. Not only did they wind up with the Volts at substantially less than I paid, but we developed a relationship with that dealer and have sent more coworkers and family members there since.

 

At the very WORST, if you don't feel comfy buying out of state for whatever reason, you can always take the forum deal they offer into your local place as a bargaining tool. The local salesman will of course tell you that there is some trick, but the same forums almost always have at least a few people to vouch for the dealers who advertise there which is how you know it's real. I am very likely going to get my next car from out of state for the same reason. On some cars like Volt, the difference in price is absolutely enormous if you shop around.

 

-MKL

[enfoman]

Hi Kathy!

 

I also am in the suspision that Volvo continues to have sales problems here in the states. I have a friend that was laid off and the dealership eventually closed because of that in this market so, If you really really want to get a Volvo and then have an orphaned stateside car possibly in the .qfuture like Suzuki is now, think a long while on that. I believe that they were bailed out by GM for a while. Also consider that on the whole, Volvo repair parts are also very pricey as compared to the big three. Lots of cars out there. I am with you on getting the very best deal for sure.

 

Also consider a buying service from your credit union if enrolled. I think they do about the same things as Costco and Bj's. As they say' membership has it privileges.

 

One more thing,back in October, my neighbor (a chevy salesman) who can 'make things happen' said that he could get me in a new truck on move out inventory and smaller paymnents, yada_--, I did not bite. Tempt in, but no thanks. Still tons of deals out there as others have said but, the reports are out also that the inventories will shrink and deals fewer as the much older car owners from before the recession are coming back into the showrooms.

 

No problem buying OOS Kathy, NYS will charge you the sales tax when you register it. When it s bought OOS, the dealer will issue you a 30 day transport tag. I bought an ,85 Monte Carlo T top in Bergen NJ that way. Only issue if you have concerns is writing that big 8% sales tax cost on a check to DMV.... ouch!!!!

[philbytx]

No Dave,

 

You only pay the tax to the state of your residency.

 

 

[upflying]

No Dave,

 

You only pay the tax to the state of your residency.

 

In Ca maybe. A California car dealer must prove the car immediately left the state to avoid paying sales tax. That means a dealership employee must personally drive the new car across state lines before giving it to the purchaser.

I suppose shipping it could alleviate that hassle. Ca is a tax hell and dealers want to avoid the headache and red tape of explaining why they did not charge tax on a vehicle purchase.

[Rex R]

Go to True Car for a good estimate of what dealers are asking in your market for a specific car. I used True Car 2 years ago to buy our WRX. After getting quotes from talking heads at local dealers, a dealer 100 miles aways quoted lower, guaranteed price via Truecar.

 

Consumer Reports also has a service for subscribers.

 

Consumer Reports car buying/pricing service is powered by TrueCar. It is is nearly painless way to buy a car. You may not get the VERY best price via TrueCar, but it will be a good price.

 

Make sure they dealer quotes you the "out the door" price, which includes any documentation fees to register and title the car for you, esp. if you are shopping at dealers in different states.

 

To get an idea of the dealer's flexibility on price start with the dealer invoice (available from various sites on the internet) and subtract the factory-dealer holdback which can be based on MSRP or invoice price (again, available on the internet) and then subtract factory incentives (again, available on .... you get the idea) That represents what the dealer is actually paying for the car from the factory. I've had dealers boast that they are offering me a price just a few hundred over invoice and when I remind them about the holdback, suddenly the price drops to a few hundred below invoice.

 

Sorry if some of this info may have been posted by a previous poster.

 

[enfoman]

Hi Kathy!

 

I also am in the suspision that Volvo continues to have sales problems here in the states. I have a friend that was laid off and the dealership eventually closed because of that in this market so, If you really really want to get a Volvo and then have an orphaned stateside car possibly in the .qfuture like Suzuki is now, think a long while on that. I believe that they were bailed out by GM for a while.

 

 

I am remiss for posting the above.. checked back and it was SAAB that was taken over as a subsidiary of Gm which later was sold off then went bankrupt. Humble apologies for the above.

[SteveHebert]

Kathy,

 

I used USAA buying service when we got the 2013 Honda Pilot last December. Savings was just over 7% and the dealer did not even flinch. It was an awesome way to go. I will look at an Audi S4 With Prestige package this week and will let you know what happens.

[Kathy R]

My advice: Frequent some Volvo forums.

 

Thanks. So far, the forums I've found seem to be company in nature. I'll keep digging. Appreciate your sharing your OOS experience.

 

Also consider that on the whole, Volvo repair parts are also very pricey as compared to the big three. .....Also consider a buying service from your credit union if enrolled. ....No problem buying OOS Kathy, NYS will charge you the sales tax when you register it.

 

Yeah, the expense of upkeep is a rub. But everyone who I have talked to who owns a Volvo or who owns the wagon just LOVES their car.

.....That is a great idea, because I do bank at a credit union, THANKS.

.....The conversation about taxes is interesting. It made me look at what the dealer quoted me for taxes and the dollar amount he gave me is higher than the tax rate. What do you think of that? Yeah, it's either a mistake or it's in your face smarmy.

......And Bob, please know that I appreciate your intent and don't fault you about the Saab/Volvo mixup. That is something I would do.

I had heard about Saab, but know devoted followers of that brand who still enjoy and recommend those cars. I was a little worried about Volvo having been sold to Ford and then sold to a Chinese Company, but it seems all is well. And some say it's even better.

 

Make sure they dealer quotes you the "out the door" price, which includes any documentation fees to register and title the car for you, esp. if you are shopping at dealers in different states.

 

I have been using that phrase, "out the door" since my twenties. I remember one instance long ago when a salesman kept trying to add things to it and I kept laughing and essentially telling him to talk to the hand.

Thanks for your very helpful information about how to negotiate the price from invoice.

 

I used USAA buying service when we got the 2013 Honda Pilot last December. Savings was just over 7% and the dealer did not even flinch. It was an awesome way to go. I will look at an Audi S4 With Prestige package this week and will let you know what happens.

 

I don't qualify for USAA, but it makes me very happy that it's there for you and folks like you Steve. I want to see a photo of that car!

[philbytx]

FYI - Volvo is owned by Geely, a Chinese auto company.

HERE is an interesting article about the relationship between Volvo and Geely.

 

 

 

 

[Lmar]

Have you considered a 2013? You may be able to get a great deal on a new 2013. Just a thought.

[Mrs. Caddis]

I'm not a fan of the extra warranty "insurance" that they try to add on [with high pressure.] They seem to throw that at you when you are signing all the documents. If you feel it is something you want/need, get the fine print ahead of time so you can consider and compare other products.

[Kathy R]

Have you considered a 2013? You may be able to get a great deal on a new 2013. Just a thought.

 

Thanks. I did, but there are some changes I preferred in the 2014. Granted, that decision will cost me.

[EffBee]

Kathy, talk to Megan and Brian Twiss (BrianT). They've owned a Volvo recently. Not a good experience. It's as much about the aftersale support and warranty policies as it is about the quality of the car. A company teetering on financial equilibrium is not likely to be generous, or even compliant, with service/warranty issues unless pushed or forced to.

[Dave McReynolds]

I'm not a fan of the extra warranty "insurance" that they try to add on [with high pressure.] They seem to throw that at you when you are signing all the documents. If you feel it is something you want/need, get the fine print ahead of time so you can consider and compare other products.

 

Despite the negative things you always hear about these things, I've generally gotten my money's worth out of them. For a new car, they generally cost about $1,200-1,500, and toward the end of the warranty, I've always had something at least that expensive break. I think the deal is that if a $1,200-1,500 gadget breaks on my car, it would cost me $1,200-1,500 to get it fixed, but I'll bet it doesn't cost Toyota anywhere near that much to repair my car. Also, a lot of people don't keep their cars to the end of the warranty, and even though it's supposed to be transferable, I'll bet that gets lost in the shuffle most of the time. So I'm sure the company makes money on them, but probably in ways we couldn't take advantage of individually, unless you happen to be married to a good auto mechanic!

 

I paid $200 to get an extended warranty on a refrigerator, and when the refrigerator broke after 2-3 years, they gave me a new one. Delivered it and hauled off the old one. Took a while to find the paperwork; we almost forgot we had bought the extended warranty.

[mickeym3]

Subaru is to cars what a VStrom is to motorcycles.

[EffBee]

I'm not a fan of the extra warranty "insurance" that they try to add on [with high pressure.] They seem to throw that at you when you are signing all the documents. If you feel it is something you want/need, get the fine print ahead of time so you can consider and compare other products.

 

Despite the negative things you always hear about these things, I've generally gotten my money's worth out of them. For a new car, they generally cost about $1,200-1,500, and toward the end of the warranty, I've always had something at least that expensive break. I think the deal is that if a $1,200-1,500 gadget breaks on my car, it would cost me $1,200-1,500 to get it fixed, but I'll bet it doesn't cost Toyota anywhere near that much to repair my car. Also, a lot of people don't keep their cars to the end of the warranty, and even though it's supposed to be transferable, I'll bet that gets lost in the shuffle most of the time. So I'm sure the company makes money on them, but probably in ways we couldn't take advantage of individually, unless you happen to be married to a good auto mechanic!

 

I paid $200 to get an extended warranty on a refrigerator, and when the refrigerator broke after 2-3 years, they gave me a new one. Delivered it and hauled off the old one. Took a while to find the paperwork; we almost forgot we had bought the extended warranty.

 

BTW, markup on extended warranties is often as high as 100%. So don't throw one into the negotiation, as it gives them a lot of money to play with and it looks like it's coming off the price of the car. Get your price. When that's done, then tell them what you're going to pay for the extended warranty. And do it before it goes to the F&I guy (he'll budge less because that's HIS income you're playing with). The Sales Team holds sway when it comes to the terms for rolling a unit.

[Kathy R]

I'm not a fan of the extra warranty "insurance" that they try to add on [with high pressure.]

 

Thanks Eileen, David and FB. The only time I've ever bought an extended warranty is when I had the BMWZ4. In the ensuing extra years I ended up breaking even. I am not planning to get the extended warranty, if I get this Volvo.

 

Subaru is to cars what a VStrom is to motorcycles.

Except Dad and Nigel can't flat foot the Outback (the only Suburu I'd consider). As I mentioned in one of my long winded posts above, I've been looking for a car that my 88 year old Dad can get in and out of without assistance. I want him to retain the dignity afforded by doing it on his own. It's bad enough he can't drive anymore. And I'd like to get something that doesn't cause Nigel to belt out exasperated sighs. You should have seen the look on his mug when I told him to jump up into the JeepGCSummit. "You want me to do what?"

 

I'll give Brian and Megan a holler, FB. Thanks!

 

No financing. No trade. Not many places to hide numbers, although it appears they already managed to fudge the tax figure and DMV cost to their benefit. I have to remember THAT is how they do things, no matter how distasteful it is to my way of thinking.

[EffBee]

I understand about getting in and out of the Outback. Penny has one, and with my bad back, there are days when my egress is less than gracious. Since my Rav4 got rear-ended and totaled, we've been looking at the Forester (a tiny bit smaller than the Rav, but much more upright driving position than the Outback and you sit more in it than into it. We've also looked at the Tribeca (it would be my choice if it weren't so fugly). We've got our Labrador du jour (Penny puppy raises service dogs, so we call them our "rental dogs"), but they're all young and spry, so a 3ft leap into the back seat or cargo section is no problem.

 

If the Volvo meets your needs and sets your heart aflutter, go for it. But do so with a full scope of knowledge regarding the company's financial health, its service/warranty records, and some of the personal experiences of friends.

[Scout7]

Kathy,

 

We just went through the new vehicle decision at the end of December.

 

In mid-December, NPR had a story where a reporter spent a month with a car sales team. They had several interesting points, but the key for this discussion is that deals made at the beginning of the month were $1,000 higher for the same vehicle than deals made at the end of the month. If a dealer doesn't make his monthly quota, he loses out on significant bonuses that make his profit. So, they are very motivated to sell a few more vehicles at the end of the month and will give you bigger discounts.

 

We chose 2 vehicles at different dealers and played them off each other. The Kia sales manager even said he would do what ever it takes to make the deal and offered $1,200 off the price on top of other discounts to meet the other price. The Ford dealer gave us a better price, but didn't want to include the military discount because Rob is IRR and not active. We told Ford that we really wanted to go with them, but the military discount was a deal breaker. They gave us the discount without any further discussion. Ford also gave us a higher level model.

 

Don't tell the dealer that you are only looking at that vehicle. Also, be ready with a deal breaker and be ready to walk out the door if they don't give it to you. Someone will give it to you. You just need to find them the last week of the month.

 

Good luck!

 

[szurszewski]

My advice: Frequent some Volvo forums.

 

Thanks. So far, the forums I've found seem to be company in nature. I'll keep digging. Appreciate your sharing your OOS experience.

 

I haven't found a forum like this one for ANYTHING else, but I am the former owner of a first year Volvo XC and these are the places I looked both when researching which year to buy and then how to fix the stuff that was wrong when I bought it or went wrong after.

 

VolvoSpeed

 

SweedSpeed

 

Volvo Forums

 

Volvo XC

 

My (former) car is really not in any way comparable to what you're looking at, but I will say that I enjoyed driving it and it was generally very reliable for a car that had, by the time we sold it, driven enough miles to take it literally to the moon - even when it did have problems it never left us stranded and always got home under its own power. I also don't have a particular recommendation on which forum to steer you toward - I was never looking at the "which new one should I get" parts

 

(I will say that my current work car, a 2005 X3, is way more fun to drive, but it definitely would not meet your "flat foot" requirement.)

 

have fun shopping!

josh

[SteveHebert]

My advice: Frequent some Volvo forums.

 

Thanks. So far, the forums I've found seem to be company in nature. I'll keep digging. Appreciate your sharing your OOS experience.

 

Also consider that on the whole, Volvo repair parts are also very pricey as compared to the big three. .....Also consider a buying service from your credit union if enrolled. ....No problem buying OOS Kathy, NYS will charge you the sales tax when you register it.

 

Yeah, the expense of upkeep is a rub. But everyone who I have talked to who owns a Volvo or who owns the wagon just LOVES their car.

.....That is a great idea, because I do bank at a credit union, THANKS.

.....The conversation about taxes is interesting. It made me look at what the dealer quoted me for taxes and the dollar amount he gave me is higher than the tax rate. What do you think of that? Yeah, it's either a mistake or it's in your face smarmy.

......And Bob, please know that I appreciate your intent and don't fault you about the Saab/Volvo mixup. That is something I would do.

I had heard about Saab, but know devoted followers of that brand who still enjoy and recommend those cars. I was a little worried about Volvo having been sold to Ford and then sold to a Chinese Company, but it seems all is well. And some say it's even better.

 

Make sure they dealer quotes you the "out the door" price, which includes any documentation fees to register and title the car for you, esp. if you are shopping at dealers in different states.

 

I have been using that phrase, "out the door" since my twenties. I remember one instance long ago when a salesman kept trying to add things to it and I kept laughing and essentially telling him to talk to the hand.

Thanks for your very helpful information about how to negotiate the price from invoice.

 

I used USAA buying service when we got the 2013 Honda Pilot last December. Savings was just over 7% and the dealer did not even flinch. It was an awesome way to go. I will look at an Audi S4 With Prestige package this week and will let you know what happens.

 

I don't qualify for USAA, but it makes me very happy that it's there for you and folks like you Steve. I want to see a photo of that car!

 

After lots of research and talking with dealers (and wasting time) with a liar at one of the dealers, I decided to buy a 2014 Honda Accord. I bought the loaded EX-L V6 model. I benerally do not buy new but was so ticked off with the certified pre-owned salesman that I decided to go new.

 

I looked at a 335D BMW and asked anout the extended warranty with USAA. It was $6k! That was enough for me to stay away from that. The Honda extended for 72 mos and 100k miles is only $750.

 

I pick up the car next week, when they find my color.

[Kathy R]

Thanks for your insight, FB. As I mentioned, non of the Suburu line up work for Dad or Nigel. From what I've read and been told Volvo has had hiccups during Ford's control, but they have been out of the picture for a few years. Things "have returned" to Swedish thinking, in spite of the Chinese ownership. The XC clicks all of my boxes, except fuel efficiency. I'm choosing safety over gasoline. It's a tank and from what I've heard the passenger compartment is never compromised. I have a good friend who was hit in the side by at dump truck and she got out and yelled at him. Car was totaled. Until cars drive themselves and I no longer have to worry about stupid or distracted drivers I'm aiming for the crash protection over mpg and money.

 

Sue, thanks for sharing your insight. So far two dealers have come back with 2 price drops each. They keep checking in with me. I think we are all waiting for the end of the month. I'm willing to wait until the right month, too.

 

Thank you, Josh. I welcome your links. I agree, and it's funny isn't it? I never stop to think if a question is appropriate for this site. I just come to Other Topics and ask away. The depth of knowledge here, as well as my confidence in the opinions of you folks, never wanes.

 

Sweet car, Steve, Congratulations! I had a 2002 Honda Accord EX loaded too! LOVED it. I only had it two years when I had to find a shorter car, to fit into a tandem underground parking space, when I moved to the city. That's how I ended up with the BMWZ4! Holy cow, $6k? My extended warranty was $2,500. Times have changed. Dumbest thing I ever did was getting rid of that Honda, instead of that boyfriend. Unfortunately, the Honda back seat depth is too small for Nigel and the car height is not ideal for Dad. Once I saw Dad get in and out of the XC70 that did it for me. And to know he's riding around in a car he likes makes me very happy. The T6 power is for him. Oh, and for me. It's a heavy car and needs that turbo.

 

We'll see what the end of the month brings.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[chrisolson]

Just another data point for you, I have a 2007 S60 with the 2.5 turbo. Great car, 135K miles and nothing but normal maintenance which is basically oil, filters, plugs and brakes. If you keep it long enough (120K) you'll need a timing belt which is a tad expensive, but most are. And yes, having been in the business years ago, its normally true that dealers will agree to the best price offer particularly on the last day of the month and even more so for a vehicle that has been in stock a long time.

[Kathy R]

Really appreciate your insight, Chris. That's the rub, I'm not picking from stock, I'm giving them a list of the options I want on the car and they are going to have to get My Car from another dealer somewhere. I can be flexible on the car options, I guess...but I'm prone to wanting it the way I want it this go round. What do you suggest?

[chrisolson]

A dealer trade will never result in the best price for you since the originating dealer generally makes some money for the service and then there can be transportation fees and your dealer will need to make some money as well. Your best bet is if the vehicle is in your state, go to that dealer. The internet is your friend to search dealer stock.

 

In the end, it truly depends on how maniacal you are about price. Some folks get all apoplectic over $50 on a $35K vehicle For others, its more about getting a fair price for the exact vehicle they want.

 

The folks willing to analyze a haircut can argue over what constitutes a fair price

[Kathy R]

Thanks, Chris. I'm good with a price that works for both buyer and seller, and in fact I feel that's always the best price. But, that being said, I do keep asking for a lower price, until a salesperson stops offering one.

 

My Car is out of state. Drat.

 

While I wait to see if the dealer drops the price further I'm continuing to look at late model used XC70T6's. I know that's my best deal, what with the mileage these Volvo's routinely rack up. I realize I'm going to best leverage my cash position by buying used. I'm a wee bit imprudent in wanting brand new. That, in itself, is causing me to be patient.

[chrisolson]

My Car is out of state.Drat

Maybe make a vacation out of a car purchase? There can be tax and/or licencing implications, but they're workable.

... I'm continuing to look at late model used XC70T6's. I know that's my best deal ...

Buying late model used from a dealer is, in my opinion, a fine way to go. A new car dealer has a huge investment in their business and will generally make good on vehicles not only because of state and federal regulations, but also when pushed (i.e. go high enough up in the chain of management) they generally want to avoid bad publicity. They understand the theory of deep pockets and how it works against them. A private party has no skin in the game.

[SteveHebert]

I ended up going to GA to buy the car. My local dealer did not have one in stock and could not guarantee the one they get would be my first color choice. When spending $32k, I want my color choice. Anyway, USAA buying serices contacted me with a dealer that had what I wanted, exactly! We were heading to Savannah for a couple of days anyway and the dealership was 2.6 mikes off route. It was almost fate. When I was there, my local dealer was talking to them about shipping the same car to them. When all was said and done, I paid under $32k with everything, out the door. That included 4% sales tax and a lifetime power train warranty. I may never need it, but it is nice to have. I will pick up the car in a couple hours and drive it home.

[FLrider]

Kathy:

 

There are a number of sources that can give you the "dealer cost" and best deals as noted in previous discussions. You can go in armed with that info, but there are some other important .....

Mike Cassidy

 

Kathy, having bought many, many new cars with and without trade ins, this is the correct approach.

 

Don't think of percentage off MSRP. Think dealer cost "plus" some percentage profit. I can't give the percentage amount because "cost" is an elusive number. While you can find dealer cost on sites like edmunds.com. , edmunds is not as forthcoming with information about dealer kickbacks from the factory (called holdback) as they used to be.

 

You CAN Buy cars at dealer cost and the dealer still makes a profit of anywhere between 2- 6%, depending on manufacturer.

 

Dealers deserve a profit. Your job is to make sure that you are not the person they make the MOST profit on.

 

Personally, I will do a 3% deal on any vehicle over 30k. A little more on vehicles under 30k.

 

The trick is in the trade in. That's where most people get hammered. Often times a dealer will show you a great trade in value. Maybe even more than YOU think the car is worth and you will jump on the deal.

 

Keep your eye focused on on the trade DIFFERENCE , BEFORE taxes , tag fees etc.

 

NEVER Accept a dealer prep fee of $399 or some other ridiculous number. Just zero that out of your trade difference number. It's additional pure profit for the dealer and they always tack it on to the end of the invoice pricing. Know whet it is before you accept the trade difference.

 

Good luck.