2009 RT ergos driving me crazy...

[VoipWizard]

Hello

This may be a long post, but I will try to explain my situation.

 

First at all, we are putting together a trip next summer Atlanta - Chicago - Montana and the parks - Las Vegas - I40 East - Atlanta. Time allotted is two weeks. One of my friends is an Iron butt and loves 600/700 mile days. I cannot stand my bike for more than a couple of hours of riding. If I can't get comfortable I may need to scrap the trip, because for me there is no point to drive so many miles in pain or discomfort.

 

All started coming back from a 20 year riding hiatus with the purchase of a 2004 R1200CLC. Beautiful bike. It gave me a lot of tail bone pain after a couple of hours. The bike had PTTR ( or Pull To The Right) syndrome, and I blamed it for my discomfort. It also had the BMW stock seat. Impossible for me to tolerate anything over 300 miles.

So I sold it and bought a 2003 K1200LT unseen in Norfolk VA. It came with Ohlins suspension and Russell Seats. PO was 6'5 260# I'm 6' 200# (in good days) 30" inseam. Rode it home and it fit like a glove. My a$$ and back pain were gone for good. I am not a strong person by any means and I had a couple of close calls out there riding and in my garage parking the beast and I just could not handle it anymore.

Sold it and got my RT. I am in a love/hate state right now. I love the bike is perfect makes me smile but it makes my body aches so bad is not even funny.

First at all it has a lowered suspension that does not affect at all my riding position, but the seats that came with the bike were shaven to the pan. And that is how I rode it back from California to Georgia, chewing 800mg ibuprofens. Yep no kidding. My a$$ was so sore I had trouble walking for a week after the trip.

Immediately after getting the bike home and to my significant other's dismay I ordered Russell Seats. A$$ pain is gone it moved up between the shoulders to the point that I cannot ride more than an hour without having the need to "pop" my neck (you know stretching to the point that makes noise and kind of gets into place)

Got a pair of Moto-Techniques risers and they helped just a tad not a lot.

Got a pair of the too-expensive Wunderlich risers last week don't feel any improvement but hey I can move the handlebars anywhere I want now.

I have played with the seat height and the risers but I can't find the right combination.

Yesterday I just pulled the Russells out and put back a set of stock seats and I am currently waiting for this crappy weather here in Atlanta to clear up so I can go to Riders Hill (a very nice motorcycle shop located at the mountains foothills) and see if the stock seats are better than my beloved Russells.

I still have the moto-techniques risers and I was thinking on adding them to further rise the handlebars has anybody tried something like that? I know that I have to order a longer brake line. Is kind of tight right now with the Vario risers.

Anything else that you guys think it may help?

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

[MSmith]

Hello VoipWiz....

 

I had a similar problem with my RT. I used to get a pain just behind my left shoulder blade. What worked for me was a combination of a Russell seat, foot peg lower, removing the bar risers and changing my riding position. A member of this site talked about the "Master Yoda's Riding Position". It's about keeping your back straight, pivoting your upper body at the hips, and relaxing the arms. Worked for me. Try different seat height adjustments if possible on your bike. Also, has your helmet weight changed recently? A few oz. can make a big difference.

 

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=847303&page=1

[Kritou]

I have double riser/barbacks on my 2008 RTP. Yes you will need a longer brake line. If you have not already done so you will need to reroute the clutch line inside the left fork (easy to do)

 

I use an Airhawk and find that one of it's benefits is the ability to adjust it fore and aft on the go - this changes the tilt of the pelvis and for me makes long rides so much more comfortable

[VoipWizard]

Ok since I have the old risers I may give them a try.

The crazy part is that it feels right and then after an hour the pain starts to creep up.

 

 

[Matts_12GS]

I'm 6'4 and have both long arms and long legs. When I rode 1100RTs I only experienced what you are describing when I had risers/bar backs installed.

 

Like MSmith, changing body position was everything for me. Starting with getting my feet set up correctly and then moving the rest of me to a more neutral position with my back straight, hands loose and forearms parallel to the ground, eyes up scanning the road has made all the difference in the world to me.

 

My recommendation would be to take the bike back to stock, and then see if you can find someone near you that's familiar with Master Yoda who can help get you in line with it while you're sitting on the center stand. Once you get the pain in your shoulders sorted out, then you can begin to make more targeted changes to fit the bike to you.

 

 

[SWB]

+1 on the riding position.

 

Everyone is different, but in my experience, if you want to ride slouched back like a cruiser rider, you'll need to ride a cruiser. Best position for the RT is back straight, leaned slightly forward, chin about over the gas fill cap, with arms relaxed and elbows bent.

 

If I slouch I get exactly the pain you describe in the shoulders (exaggerated by rotator cuff problems I've had since college tennis, and over-pitching batting practice in youth baseball). I get the same pain if I'm sitting at a misadjusted desk chair that has my arms stretched out too far in front. In either case, there is extra pressure on the sockets and tendons in my shoulders due to hyperextension (my own non-medical opinion). I've also had pain in my elbows when my arms are held too straight without a bend. A couple of days in a badly fitted desk chair will have me hunting for narcotics and muscle relaxers, the back and shoulder pain gets so bad. Same thing goes for my wrists, i.e. if I'm leaning too far forward "reaching" for the bars, I put too much pressure on my wrists, and they'll start hurting in 15 minutes. Same thing at a desk; if the chair arms are not level with the desk, if I'm reaching up or down, my wrists will be killing me within few hours. (Heck, it sounds like I'm held together with duck tape and bailing wire, which is not far from the truth.)

 

"Correct riding position" for me is a VERY straight back (almost jamming my rear end into the seat), but everything else is relaxed and/or bent, i.e. knees, elbows, hips, shoulders, so pressure is even all around. On the R1200RT model, it really feels like the bike is wrapped around me when I'm "doing it right", i.e. I'm balanced, the bike is balanced, and we both handle well with no strain or pain.

 

The best seat I've tried thus far is the Sargent's which is fairly hard, but also rides "level" (versus the OEM, which tends to push me forward). I don't necessarily like the look or feel of the Sargent - would much rather have something like a Russell (and truth be told, a Russell properly constructed for me might work better, if I paid the $$$ to experiment). It just works for me.

 

Good luck. If you're not having back or shoulder pain when you're not on a bike, then either your equipment is failing you or you're doing something wrong in your riding position. I do have some issues, i.e. shoulders, elbows, back unrelated to motorcycling, and I've been able to manage with regular rest breaks every 2-3 hours, but I still pay a price. Lately, it's been the knees getting stiff, but part of that is a result of sedentary behavior which I'm fixing in the swimming pool every other day. My various aches and pains (i.e. bad enough that I was living on 800 mg doses of ibuprofen) are almost eliminated when I swim regularly, and come back within 3 weeks if I stop the exercise.

 

Good luck - you WILL find a solution, just keep working with it.

 

Scott

[VoipWizard]

Thanks for all the replies.

Like Scott said, there is something that I'm doing or setting up wrong. Pain or/and discomfort goes away when I dismount.

Today I installed my new LED aux lights and I decided to extend the Vario risers to the outmost position, will see this weekend if it makes a change for me.

If it doesn't i will revert the bike to stock and will start over.

 

My IB friend loves the Sargent seats. We were talking yesterday on a possible trip ATL-MIA and he suggested that we can stop by the Sargent place and get a loaner at least from JAX to MIA and back. Will see how this pans out

 

 

[Ponch]

+1 on the riding position.

 

Everyone is different, but in my experience, if you want to ride slouched back like a cruiser rider, you'll need to ride a cruiser. Best position for the RT is back straight, leaned slightly forward, chin about over the gas fill cap, with arms relaxed and elbows bent.

 

If I slouch I get exactly the pain you describe in the shoulders (exaggerated by rotator cuff problems I've had since college tennis, and over-pitching batting practice in youth baseball). I get the same pain if I'm sitting at a misadjusted desk chair that has my arms stretched out too far in front. In either case, there is extra pressure on the sockets and tendons in my shoulders due to hyperextension (my own non-medical opinion). I've also had pain in my elbows when my arms are held too straight without a bend. A couple of days in a badly fitted desk chair will have me hunting for narcotics and muscle relaxers, the back and shoulder pain gets so bad. Same thing goes for my wrists, i.e. if I'm leaning too far forward "reaching" for the bars, I put too much pressure on my wrists, and they'll start hurting in 15 minutes. Same thing at a desk; if the chair arms are not level with the desk, if I'm reaching up or down, my wrists will be killing me within few hours. (Heck, it sounds like I'm held together with duck tape and bailing wire, which is not far from the truth.)

 

"Correct riding position" for me is a VERY straight back (almost jamming my rear end into the seat), but everything else is relaxed and/or bent, i.e. knees, elbows, hips, shoulders, so pressure is even all around. On the R1200RT model, it really feels like the bike is wrapped around me when I'm "doing it right", i.e. I'm balanced, the bike is balanced, and we both handle well with no strain or pain.

 

The best seat I've tried thus far is the Sargent's which is fairly hard, but also rides "level" (versus the OEM, which tends to push me forward). I don't necessarily like the look or feel of the Sargent - would much rather have something like a Russell (and truth be told, a Russell properly constructed for me might work better, if I paid the $$$ to experiment). It just works for me.

 

Good luck. If you're not having back or shoulder pain when you're not on a bike, then either your equipment is failing you or you're doing something wrong in your riding position. I do have some issues, i.e. shoulders, elbows, back unrelated to motorcycling, and I've been able to manage with regular rest breaks every 2-3 hours, but I still pay a price. Lately, it's been the knees getting stiff, but part of that is a result of sedentary behavior which I'm fixing in the swimming pool every other day. My various aches and pains (i.e. bad enough that I was living on 800 mg doses of ibuprofen) are almost eliminated when I swim regularly, and come back within 3 weeks if I stop the exercise.

 

Good luck - you WILL find a solution, just keep working with it.

 

Scott

 

Chin over the gas cap…Not for me. I'll be looking down.

[vanxr]

I think some people are luckier than others when it comes to comfort. My GS 1200 was WAY more comfy on long rides than my 09 1200 RT.

I've found that I just needed to train my body for long rides. I can now ride comfortably for about 3-4 hours before I need to get off and stretch. For me that's enough time to fill the tank and hit the road again.

 

Steve

[bonerpart]

Also consider working out regularly to strengthen your core muscles, back, and even neck as long as you have no medical condition that would prohibit it.

[lkchris]

Also consider working out regularly to strengthen your core muscles, back, and even neck as long as you have no medical condition that would prohibit it.

 

Exactly.

 

Probably the team of engineers that designs any particular model BMW averages 20-30 years younger than the average of the guys that buy and ride them.

 

Riding will keep you young but you have to do your part.

[1NOTRED]

Posture has a big affect. It helps a lot to lean a bit forward, sit very straight-backed and make an effort to push the belly button forward. Helps the shoulders to relax downward and relaxes the tummy.

[VoipWizard]

Success!!!

Today's ride was 95% no pain. Reason for that are my new Vario risers. But I have to say that I have been "tense" and tried really hard to "unwind" while riding.

The end result was to be almost without any pain in my 200 mile ride.

 

 

 

[Heyfrank]

Good for you. It's good to figure things out with success.

[TomSSRT]

Just read the thread. How's everything working out? I ride an 06 RT and have occasionally had the pain in the center of my back. Evidently it comes from slouching. I straighten up a little, make sure my head is back, pain goes away. 38-39K miles most of it with Rick Mayer seats. Originally, tried Alaska Leather sheep skins on oem seats. Not good enough. Got the seats at 7500 miles and still use the Alaska Leathers. I do have the lower seat pan with the ESA. My riding is mostly two up. Go for the long trip. We did 7500 miles from Memphis to Seattle, took 30 days. covered 200-300 miles per day. Some days really stretched it. Do it, have fun. Post the trip when you get back. BTW, we made that trip when I was 64.

[Voyame]

I wonder if a kidney belt would offer some relief. It's old school but functional.

[VoipWizard]

The new Wunderlich Riser is certainly doing its job. Have not tried a different setup yet but moving the bars up and all the way out seems to make the difference.

I feel really good with the Russell set on the high position. My last ride (about 300 miles) was good but not perfect. I'm getting there

 

 

 

 

[Capn Nak]

A trick for me that works is to hold your handlebar grips like you are holding bananas. That is not too firm or tense otherwise you would bruise and mush the hell out of them. Once I tried holding my handlebar grips like I was grabbing bananas my whole riding experience turned better.

[TomSSRT]

Just thought of something. Do you have cruise control? I use mine all the time. My hands want to fall asleep. With cruise I can shake out the right hand or just let it hang. Cruise has really helped on long trips. Even in the twisties I find a quick cruise on short straights help out the hands.

[1NOTRED]

Agree with the use of cruise control. In addition to the elimination of hand and grip fatigue, cruise control eliminates a big chunk of brain-power used to maintain road speed. This is a major help. I wouldn't be without it.

[Capn Nak]

Ditto Yellowknife and TomSSRT. The cruise contrlol is a great way to "shake-out" and relax your grip. I also use on longer rides a tennis elbow strap that I wear just below the elbow on the forearm. It helps, but the real trick is not gripping the handlebars so firm/tight.

[mwsR1200RT]

For me a kidney belt does help! On longer rides, I found I did tend to get relaxed and slouch, which resulted in lower back AND between the shoulder blade pain.

A kidney belt offers some support, but what I've found works best for me is a Back-A-Line belt. I believe I discovered it on this forum when someone mentioned it here.

Why does it work so well for me? Negative reinforcement! I find it uncomfortable when I slouch, but quite comfortable when I sit properly.

 

[TomSSRT]

what yellowknife said goes for me. And there's no slowing down on hills.

[dak]

I too am on the oldish end of the scale as far a riders go (53). I have noticed some changes through out the years. I also still ride dirt bikes (KTM300XC). In my opinion that's the single best thing I can do to be a better, safer, in shape, street rider. Also, riding the street helps in the dirt, IMO.

 

My awareness, reflexes and judgement on the street are much better a day or two after a good 30-40 mile dirt ride.

 

Sometimes before a big road trip I'll purposely ride my dirt bike a few times to "tune up" for the ride. Works for me. This August I completed a 3,400 mile dual-sport trip over the TAT on my KTM 640 Adventure, camping most the way with no problem. I also try to hit the gym 3 times a week to stretch and exercise muscles I use while riding.

 

Having said all that, Mr. Age is creeping up on me. 10 years ago I would think nothing of riding my old V-Strom 600+ miles in a day. Now that might be an effort or at least not fun. And we ride for fun right?

 

The last race bike I had was a 2008 Aprilia RSV. I sold it when I turned 50 as I couldn't ride the damn thing more than 100 miles without feeling pain... not fun.

 

It seems that Mr R1200ST suites me for fit as I put 1k miles on him in three days and enjoyed every minute of it.

 

My point? With age keep yourself in as good as shape as possible and set your bike up for your comfort. If the bike dosen't work, move on you'll find something that will.

 

[VoipWizard]

So its official and I need to get to work: We are leaving for a trip Atlanta / Chicago / Yellowstone / Hoover Dam / Atlanta. We are leaving May 3rd coming back May 18th. About 5000 miles. Jeez!!!

 

 

 

[tallman]

"I too am on the oldish end of the scale as far a riders go (53). "

 

That right there is funny...

 

I've got boots almost that old.

[dak]

"I too am on the oldish end of the scale as far a riders go (53). "

 

That right there is funny...

 

I've got boots almost that old.

 

 

Whippersnapper I am

[mrzoom]

Marty's old enough to be your dad. :wave:

[dak]

Marty's old enough to be your dad. :wave:

 

My Hero!

[tallman]

Marty's old enough to be your dad. :wave:

 

True, but I'm much too pretty for that to be the case...

[BeemerChris]

What a great group. I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures and reading the ride report!

[Jim Evans]

Try Yoga. No kidding, it makes you more flexible and teaches you how to relax. Works for me - but I do still get that pain under the shoulder blades sometimes.

[VoipWizard]

The wife asked me to join her on the yoga class... Never thought about it...

[Username]

I've got a 2007 RT. Like the bike very much. Fairly comfortable on it. I do find some shoulder pain on long days. I have lousy shoulders to begin with. Rotator cuff issues. I have cruise on my RT and find that's the best solution, to get the throttle hand off every once in a while. Also adopting good posture. I use a sheepskin cover too, alternating between bare seat and cover.

That said, the most comfortable bike I ever owned was my 2004 VStrom. No pain on that thing ever. No matter how long the ride or how poor the weather.