Light and nimble touring bike wanted

[sebenatge_ja!]

I currently own a f800st but it seems underpowered when there is a passenger on the bike. I have owned a r1150rt before which was great for two riders but was top heavy making it hard to ride at slower speeds. I am looking for the right bike fit. something more nimble and lighter than a r1150rt. Does anyone have a recommendation as to what might be the "right" bike for a 5'9 200lb guy who wants to do some touring with a passenger w/o being worried about dumping dumping a bike? 1200rt? k1600? ???

[randy]

2013 GS

[gmcjetpilot]

I currently own a f800st but it seems underpowered when there is a passenger on the bike. I have owned a r1150rt before which was great for two riders but was top heavy making it hard to ride at slower speeds. I am looking for the right bike fit. something more nimble and lighter than a r1150rt. Does anyone have a recommendation as to what might be the "right" bike for a 5'9 200lb guy who wants to do some touring with a passenger w/o being worried about dumping dumping a bike? 1200rt? k1600? ???

You have some experience and google, a lot of touring bikes, sport or luxury. Not sure what you mean by light and nimble, but if weight is critical to you, that means "sport touring" not the luxury bikes. If you are talking BMW line up the R1200RT.... it is about 45 lbs lighter than a R1150RT.

 

I have a R1150RT, it is about 555 lbs, and I think it is nimble. However the R1200RT is about 45-50 lbs lighter and has a lower saddle, which I like. I thought I couldn't get over the R1200RT's looks, but I think I am getting over it. Pre 2005 RT's are more sexy, but after I threw a leg over a R1200RT, felt how much lighter it was, the lower saddle, I'm OK with the R1200RT's looks. It is about 505-510 lbs dry (may be a little more for later models after 2009), which is amazing, but it's not "light" compared to a sport bike or your F800ST at 400 lbs. You can't have a touring bike capable of two-up with lots of power, with out some heft. Look at a Harley Davidson touring bikes; weights approaching 900 lbs! Even BMW's LT and K1600 bikes are heavy, weights well in the 700's pushing 800 lbs. I'm sure they drive like a dream but light and nimble, not so much. The earlier R1200RT's can be had a fair price, has better engine, brakes and lighter weight than the R1150RT.

 

I love my R1150RT but have to admit I am looking at maybe switching to a 2005-2009 R1200RT... Clearly the solution is to have several motorcycles!

[Caddis]

Lots of other people, including me, would love to find a bike that has all of those characteristics.

 

It seems that "light and nimble" and "touring" don't really go together very well. I like my RT well enough, but occasionally I look to see if I can find something lighter and a little smaller that will still work well for touring. But I don't want to give up the comfort and great wind/weather protection of the RT. So far, I have not found anything that I think I would like better, other than possibly a slightly newer RT.

[AndyS]

I personally think you cannot get a light touring bike. It is the weight that gives the bike poise on undulating roads. It is the weight (and geometry) that gives you stability when weather deteriorates (cross winds). It is the weight (from the bodywork and the luggage) that give you the ability to ride day in day out in comfort.

I personally would rather have these features over light and nimble for 95% of the time.

Happy hunting.

I'd still recommend the RT family of bikes. And still with the 1150 at the top of the pile. However I am biased. But I do regularly ride other bikes over distance, and it's this one I come back to and smile.

[Kathy R]

I currently own a f800st but it seems underpowered when there is a passenger on the bike. I have owned a r1150rt before which was great for two riders but was top heavy making it hard to ride at slower speeds. I am looking for the right bike fit. something more nimble and lighter than a r1150rt. Does anyone have a recommendation as to what might be the "right" bike for a 5'9 200lb guy who wants to do some touring with a passenger w/o being worried about dumping dumping a bike? 1200rt? k1600? ???

 

I would recommend that you take a ride on a Suzuki V-Strom. I often refer to my DL650 as RT-lite. I loved my RT, but the Wee offers peace of mind at stops. There is a DL1000 available. Talk to folks at Stromtroopers. HERE

 

 

 

 

 

[Shaolin Master Sergeant]

Ducati Diavel Strada: a Diavel with a windshield and panniers. Not a true touring bike ala the RT because of limited range. Very dangerous (for your license) if you ride it solo so having a passenger will curtail things a bit

[SuperG]

what might be the "right" bike for a 5'9 200lb guy who wants to do some touring with a passenger w/o being worried about dumping dumping a bike? 1200rt? k1600? ???

 

I would recommend that you take a ride on a Suzuki V-Strom. I often refer to my DL650 as RT-lite. I loved my RT, but the Wee offers peace of mind at stops. There is a DL1000 available. Talk to folks at Stromtroopers. HERE

 

Agree with with what Kathy said with a slight modification, it is a "GS-lite" instead RT-lite. I ride mine standing on the pegs for distances at times without getting fatigued. It feels good.

 

It is very capable as "solo touring", it has great range and fuel mileage and can receive luggage add-ons. Hydraulically adjustable rear spring tension helps too.

With 2-up (as the OP asked) the 650 can be a bit on the anemic side. DL1000 has the power but it gets heavier/larger too.

[Matts_12GS]

2013 GS

I would second the 1200 GS from 2005 and newer. Newer than 2007 and you get rid of the servo brakes that some people hate.

 

The GS is IIRC about 40lbs lighter than the 12RT so that puts it in the 100lbs lighter range, although still 100lbs heavier than your current ride.

 

If you have the inseam, it could work.

 

I've ridden many miles on the Wee Strom like Kathy recommends, but it is less powerful than your 800 so I think 2 up you'd find the same issue. The big strom, the DL1000, was not nearly as impressive a bike to me as the little ones, but they certainly have another 30 horses or so to play with.

[eddd]

 

My favorite touring bike from back in the day was a 1981 Suzuki GS650GT, a shaft drive in-line 4 cylinder. Dry weight was listed as 470 lbs.

 

 

I added a full Vetter fairing, after markets hard bags and top case so I guess it wasn't all that light weight. It was a great bike, totally dependable even when ridden two up and pulling a small trailer. We would travel for months at a time all over the US and Canada. I'd love to see a modern version of this type of bike but with a factory fairing. Givi type bags could be added. I looked hard for such a bike prior to buying my FJR, but there really isn't anything out there.

[philbytx]

An R1200R

 

With a good screen and a set of bags, it makes a great tourer !

 

 

[na1g]

R1200RT (wait for a wethead?) or F800GT.

[Ponch]

I am surprised no one said the Ducati Multistrada Touring/gran tourismo. Lighter than a GS and more powerful too.

[walton66]

I loved the light nimble feel of both my Ducati ST2 and ST3. Good examples of both are available. not as much fairing coverage as my RT, both being on the sport side of sport touring. At times I wish I still had my ST2. Neither had the pillion comfort of the RT. Depends on how often you ride 2 up.

[SWB]

I currently own a f800st but it seems underpowered when there is a passenger on the bike. I have owned a r1150rt before which was great for two riders but was top heavy making it hard to ride at slower speeds. I am looking for the right bike fit. something more nimble and lighter than a r1150rt. Does anyone have a recommendation as to what might be the "right" bike for a 5'9 200lb guy who wants to do some touring with a passenger w/o being worried about dumping dumping a bike? 1200rt? k1600? ???

 

Every rider has their favorite bike, and folks here have suggested several. However, your post seems as though your comparison standard for a sport-tourer is the R11xxRT class bikes. There is a night and day difference between how the R11xxRT rides and how the R1200RT class rides (of which, there are essentially 3 different models). The "top heavy" issue you mentioned is indeed pronounced on the R11xxRT. I had the RT-P version, which added 60 to 75 lbs of extra weight, but that extra weight was low to the center of gravity, and mostly irrelevant. The R1200RT has a lower center of gravity, and feels much more balanced. I sat down on my cousin's Harley, and the COG was so much pronounced at the lower end, I couldn't imagine every tipping over that bike. I was akin to sitting down in a comfortable easy chair, which is no doubt why some love that sort of ergos. That's sort of the feeling when switching between the R11xxRT and R1200RT, it's just a much more "relaxed" fit.

 

By the way, check out this Motorcycle Ergonomics site - COOL! Aside from a different weight distribution, I think a comparison of the R11xxRT and R1200RT using that site's demonstrator shows that the R11xxRT rider position is nearly vertical, whereas the R1200RT has a slight, but not overly pronounced forward lean angle. Sitting taller in the seat will again, increase the COG upward, making for a more top heavy "feel" to the ride. I've described the feeling on an R1200RT almost as having the bike envelop you. Where I felt clearly "atop" the R11xxRT, I felt more "inside" the R1200RT.

 

One more thing. I had two early "parked" tip-overs on the R11xxRT. If I ever let the bike begin to lean, I realized that there was nothing I could do to stop it from tipping over. I recall the first tip over, where I came to an abrupt "emergency" stop when a car pulled out in front of me, and the ramp I had to stop on had a negative down slope away from me on the left side. I was still, quite comically, standing astride the bike and trying to pull and lift the bike up by the left handle bar after it had completed it's roll, as I had done dozens of times on a dirt bike. In fact, that R11xxRT required severe "butt torque" to right it against that slope, along with all 250 lbs of me, muscle and fat combined, to get that thing back on it's kick stand.

 

By comparison, I was amazed to find myself a few weeks after picking up my R1200RT, standing over it with both feet flat on the ground (i.e. 6'2" tall), leaning the bike against one leg, indeed, as I had done when resting a dirt bike at a stop. The difference in the COG was so startlingly different, that I no longer worried much about a stationary tip-over, which was reflected in my somewhat careless resting position at the stop light. Not only does the bike feel "light" at rest, but between the added power, lightened bike, and lower COG, the bike feels truly "flickable" when running twisties. Again, in a comparison between the "all road bike" R11xxRT and a lightweight 230 lb dirtbike, the 505 lb R1200RT "feels" like a much lighter, more nimble road bike that it is physically.

 

I suggest you ride an R1200RT. The GS suggestion is fine, I didn't check but it's probably a bit lighter and carries its weight differently due to the off-road suspension, but it's basically the same frame and design as the RT. Test ride them both, then let us know what you think.

 

I think that your "solution" for a new "light and nimble touring bike" might just be the R1200RT.

 

- Scott

[Uni]

Ducati ST series. I have a 2004 ST3 that fits your description. Has 36K miles on it probably 80% two up. Great bike. Definitely more on the sport side of touring.

 

Jeff

2011 R1200RT

2004 Ducati ST3

[SWB]

R1200RT (wait for a wethead?) or F800GT.

 

If you have the money, why get anything other than the wethead - it'll be a fantastic bike.

 

If you haven't got the money, which I suspect is the case for many of us, there's no reason to wait for what we cannot afford. (Or, leastwise, I'll be waiting for about 8-10 years before I CAN afford the newer RT's.)

[Mister Tee]

I'm riding a Concours C14 these days. It's nimble, but not light. My 1200RT was indeed light and nimble, and it had plenty of power for passengers.

[Bill_Walker]

R1200RT (wait for a wethead?) or F800GT.

 

If you have the money, why get anything other than the wethead - it'll be a fantastic bike.

 

If you haven't got the money, which I suspect is the case for many of us, there's no reason to wait for what we cannot afford. (Or, leastwise, I'll be waiting for about 8-10 years before I CAN afford the newer RT's.)

 

I saw some pretty significant discounts on pre-wethead R1200RTs at my local BMW dealer yesterday (when I was ordering parts), so this might be a good time to buy one, rather than be a first-year wethead beta tester (although perhaps the GSers have already worked out the kinks in the first year).

 

But, as Philby said, think about the RT-lite option: an R1200R with windshield and bags. I had one for a service loaner once, and found it much more nimble than my DL1000 V-Strom.

[Antimatter]

I'm having the same sort of debate you are. I'd love to find something with the weather protection of an R1100RT that's about 75% in size and weight. I've been looking at the new (2014) Kawasaki Ninja 1000; lighter weight, plenty of power, and the newer version of the bike comes with ABS and traction control as well.

 

My wife had to wait a while until she found the right car to replace her 1998 Saturn SC-2. Eventually Honda came out with the CR-Z, and she made the switch this year. We may just have to wait until the motorcycle manufactures offer up something that works for us.

[1LIFE2LIVE]

As previously mentioned either the Kawasaki Ninja 1000 with ABS and traction control or the Ducati Multistrada would fit the bill = light, fast, fun and two up capable - neither offers the comfort/protection of an RT though.

 

0.02

[Twisties]

I definitely lean towards the dual sport for the reasons you mention... nimble, better low speed handling, competent one or two up touring. GS's are certainly worthy of your consideration, but I sure love my Super Tenere. Don't let the weight specs fool you without going for a test ride... It makes the RT feel like a pig, although it weighs the same. Wider bars, narrower tires, lower center of gravity, different geometry, MUCH better throttle control, etc. lead to vastly easier low speed handling. For two-up touring you will appreciate the much larger luggage carrying capacity of the DS's with aftermarket luggage.

 

The Super Tenere is positioned in between the R1200 GS and R1200 GSA in terms of weight, fuel capacity, etc. It is much cheaper, much more reliable, better supported (dealer network, extended warranty cost, etc), fully supported by the aftermarket crowd and forums.

 

Edit: Also, the Super Tenere is geared lower on the low end than an RT, which also helps with nimbleness. I believe the BMW GS's are as well.

 

[BailyD]

how about the Yamaha FJ?

[g_frey]

My 1150 RT is 621 pounds with nothing in the cases????

[dirtdreamer50]

Dry-Weight / Wet-Weight

 

255.1 kg / 279 kg

 

561 lbs / 614 lbs

 

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/bmw/bmw_R1150rt%2003.htm

 

 

[philbytx]

The Super Tenere is a nice bike but, remember, he rides with a passenger. My missus did not like the passenger set up on the Super Tenere at all. FYI - she has 30K plus on the back of the RT without complaint.

 

Most important that the passenger feel comfortable on the back of the bike....makes for a quiet life !

 

 

[chrisolson]

In the BMW lineup, Philbytx had it right ... R1200R. The power you want, light and low seat. Appropriate touring farkles are available. The only minor quibble might be less range.

[sardineone]

In the BMW lineup, Philbytx had it right ... R1200R. The power you want, light and low seat. Appropriate touring farkles are available. The only minor quibble might be less range.

+1

A bike that probably would replace my out of production R1200ST if anything happens to it. I noted the 5'9" rider height and would say a GS not the best choice for that height. As to the 650 V-Stroms, a nice but less powerful platform. No lie, a Canadian friend (650 V-Strom rider) rode my R1200ST and said "I forgot what it was like to ride a bike with power".

[sebenatge_ja!]

Thanks for all the posts. I think I'll test drive a R1200RT when I get the chance. A little less weight and lower center of gravity may be the key to the bike I'm looking for.

 

What is the advantage of a wet head R bike? Why retire the oil heads?

[Bill_Walker]

They made a LOT of changes in the wet head engine. Find an article on the 2013 R1200GS and it will tell you all about them. Wet clutch, more power, better emissions, and I think less weight, if I recall correctly.

[SWB]

Thanks for all the posts. I think I'll test drive a R1200RT when I get the chance. A little less weight and lower center of gravity may be the key to the bike I'm looking for.

 

What is the advantage of a wet head R bike? Why retire the oil heads?

 

There are other threads discussing the differences, from an engineering perspective. I think the general comment was that BMW had gotten about all it could from the oilhead technology for big twin thumpers, without moving to the valve shims versus adjusters and adding water cooling. Plus, as the previous poster mentioned, the wet versus dry clutch change, which I believe is about the biggest change in a BMW bike in a long time. I think most or all of the oilheads were dry clutches for 30+ years.

 

So, I supposed it's a technical evolution of the bike to keep up with the competition. I would also expect that BMW brought in some new engineering blood, who took a look at the status quo and sold BMW on the engineering changes.

 

But again, there are better engineering minds on this forum than I, and a search on this web site should find you some interesting (and better informed) conversations on the wethead change.

 

If you have $21-$25K USD to pay for your next bike, by all means, consider a wethead. However, if you don't want to live on the "bleeding edge" (i.e. first year bugs and problems likely), or you're a bit more "financially constrained" as some of us, you might try picking up a 2010-2013 RT at a used-bike-discount, which are "camheads", i.e. not water cooled but some substantial upgrades over the 2005-2009 RT's. I myself ride an 2005 RT, which I'm very happy with, whizzy brakes and all. An upgrade will come eventually, but I don't see a wethead on my menu for 5-8 years, unless I win the soon-to-be-retired-old-guys-401k lottery.

 

The main thing is, test ride an RT, and if you don't hate it, get one and ride it. With a used bike, there's much less risk if you decided it's not for you (i.e. already depreciated; lower turnover cost). Good luck on your search (hey, window shopping for bikes is half the fun anyway!.

 

- Scott

[racer7]

We ride solo and are keeping our R bikes (my 08 RT and her 04 R1100S) but have also just added a pair of F800GT to the fleet. The lighter bikes are both faster and less fatiguing in NC twisties than hers, mine or a GS, etc.

Agree the F bikes aren't really 2 up devices.

 

Too bad Kawasaki hasn't put a shaft or belt on its liter touring bike now that it has good luggage and most everything else it needs. Or that Yamaha has not made a more useful bike that the naked for its new mid size triple motor. Chains have no place on a bike with touring pretensions- don't last long enough and need too much maintenance.

[taters]

Tiger 800. Or. Ninja 1000

[rclbaker]

Just for 2-up riding & travel long distances I went from an F800ST to an R1200R.

Best bike I ever had ridden to date.

 

Rob

[philbytx]

I average 45/47mpg out of my R1100R in mixed riding....read a lot of twisties and have never got less that 42, even when hammering it!

 

I've also gleaned from various internet sources that it is not difficult to obtain 50mpg (US) on an R1200R at steady state high speed cruising. So, 200 miles on a tank, with about 25 miles reserve appears quite doable.

 

That is why the R1200R is DEFINITELY at the top of my new bik lust list..... !

 

 

 

 

[tallman]

Phil,

We set up an R1200R w/Scout fairing for a customer.

He and wife did 12,000 mile summer trip. loaded w/camping gear.

Avg. of 52 mpg, 2 up, loaded, active right wrist.

 

Fabulous combination.

[BrentW]

r1100s with bar risers

and big windscreen

 

[philbytx]

Perfecto...

 

Only issue I have is how high the screen should be for me. I'll prolly buy the BMW screen hardware and then go with a Cee Baileys screen, a 23" or 25". Just need to sit on the bike and measure myself up for it .

 

I checked with Lone Star BMW in Austin and they said 8 to 12 weeks for a custom ordered R1200R. If I order it in late March/early April Looks like I may have one for the summer season here !

 

 

[dhanson]

Do you feel lucky? The new KTM 1190 Adventure is out and on the floors. Some pretty big problems with the 2013 but they claim to have fixed for us. Light weight, bunch of HP, and a hat full of the 3 letter thingies, ABS, EDS, DTC, MSC.

 

[Whip]

The new KTM could be the best(on paper) all around bike ever made.

 

 

 

 

[realshelby]

The updated 2014 DL 1000 Suzuki will be here in a few months. I have owned both the 1000 and 650 versions of these. My wife is much happier on the V Stroms than the RT ( both with double Russel seats ) and the ergonomics are better for me on long rides. The 1000's have plenty of power and a strong midrange. Very smooth engine. Chain drive is the only thing I don't like.

 

They have finally addressed the weak points the previous generation 1000 had and gave it good front forks/suspension and brakes. While not a KTM in off road worthiness, I think these might be one of the better "lightweight" touring platforms coming out.

 

[tallman]

Is there an easy aftermarket cruise control option?

[dhanson]

The new KTM could be the best(on paper) all around bike ever made.

 

 

 

 

Jean and I are headed to St. Louis thursday, you wanna come watch us demo?

[dhanson]

Not that I have heard, course it is just software at this point. I sent an email to Wayne (tuneboy) to forget about the Multi12 long enough to look at this bike! :-)

 

P.S. TuneECU software does not work on this ECU, yet. So, no maps either for a while till someone gets up to speed with the ECU. I hear they come to the dealer with no map, dealer has special tool to load latest map before sale.

[Whip]

The new KTM could be the best(on paper) all around bike ever made.

 

 

 

 

Jean and I are headed to St. Louis thursday, you wanna come watch us demo?

 

Can't make it, but I sure wanna hear your thoughts.

 

[roadscholar]

Not that I have heard, course it is just software at this point. I sent an email to Wayne (tuneboy) to forget about the Multi12 long enough to look at this bike! :-)

 

P.S. TuneECU software does not work on this ECU, yet. So, no maps either for a while till someone gets up to speed with the ECU. I hear they come to the dealer with no map, dealer has special tool to load latest map before sale.

 

150hp not quite enough? I guess it's all relative.

 

Trying to practice delayed gratification here, thinking hard about 990 SMT, fits me like a glove.

[Bud]

The new KTM could be the best(on paper) all around bike ever made.

 

 

 

 

Jean and I are headed to St. Louis thursday, you wanna come watch us demo?

 

What, you are going to be 50 miles away and not even say hi????

[dhanson]

150hp is plenty, but just in case it is not really smooth like they say, we might need to massage it a little. The Griso spoiled me with the possibilities of changing maps and fine tuning them with "TunerPro".

 

With all the guys trading their 990s in for the next biggest and greatest 1190, you should be able to get a really good deal Bill!

 

Next year in Salida could be all orange.

 

Lawnchairboy needs orange also. :-)

[dhanson]

The new KTM could be the best(on paper) all around bike ever made.

 

 

 

 

Jean and I are headed to St. Louis thursday, you wanna come watch us demo?

 

What, you are going to be 50 miles away and not even say hi????

 

Hi Bud. Figured it would be too cold for HMI (HomeMade Icecream).

 

[Bud]

The new KTM could be the best(on paper) all around bike ever made.

 

 

 

 

Jean and I are headed to St. Louis thursday, you wanna come watch us demo?

 

What, you are going to be 50 miles away and not even say hi????

 

Hi Bud. Figured it would be too cold for HMI (HomeMade Icecream).

 

I always heard "Churn it and they will come"